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i quit going to mexico a long time ago for reasons other than drug violence. just never could get comfortable there. my kids finally gave it up because they always had their stuff stolen, the last time by cops with machine guns. most of the folks getting killed are folks that are supposed to be the good guys. cops, school teachers, newspaper reporters, politicians, the bad guys are doing the killing. whatever the deal is, i didn't realize it was that crazy. and however you wanna compare the numbers to the US, this place is a lot safer than that place. i feel sorry for the mexicans. that is just bad. Lark.

one drawback, other than it ain't a model 70, from what i've seen they aren't twisted quite quick enough to shoot the real high bc bullets, like bergers, real accurate. my son has one and it is a shooter, but it won't stabilize real long bullets real well. shoots 130 gr sirrocos like a lazer tho. Lark.

not micro manage, flat out take it over. this bill is really dangerous and the fact that their toady keeps hammering on all the 'good' it will do and keeps telling us how we just don't want to or can't understand it, and ignore the tag grab part, really shows what the real deal is. i have nothing against a rich guy. i wish i was rich instead o' so good lookin'. i mean i like bein' good lookin', but a little more money would be nice. a lot more would be nicer. but i really resent guys that can go anywhere and buy anything trying to take away something that i spend a lotta my money and time trying to do. and i can't believe that the only excuse they can throw out is that we're too stupid to get it. and i don't believe the story that were was no input from not even one outfitter. i guarantee you there are more than one outfitter that was privy to this info while it was being formulated and there is a chance for a select few to make a buncha bucks having their posse sitting on a big animal for the guys with the tags they took away. i don't care what bpj says. he probably believes it, but i don't. this backroom, backdoor, secret, emergency session, hide it from everyone including the azgfd, paying a board memeber's wife a pile for lobby fees garbage, really makes folks wonder what the heck is goin' on. and it ain't good. well, not for us anyway. it woulda been good for a few guys. Lark.

thank you oak. man if this don't bust the barrel i don't know what will. just reading a couple of the names of the board members says more to me than anything. and then this unnamed consulting firm that bpj has been talking about, but not naming, happens to belong to a board members wife? and they have the nerve to say nobody on the board is making any money off the deal? don't eat that gramma, that is bull$h!t. somebody on the "board" made a buncha money off this fine outfit the last couple last years, don't matter how you wanna justify it. and the board member who dang sure made money offa this outfit useta be a commissioner? this is gettting better all the time. remember what i said about lies, d a m n lies and statistics? the statistics are jumpin' right out there to bite somebody on the butt. this is too good. take a look at the names on the list and then think a little about where some of the gov tags have went to the past few years. this thing has more tenticles than a tumor. and it smells real bad. i mean 5 day old dead hog in the sun in the summer time stink. Lark.

now i'm really cornfused. did you just dance around it again? if you don't know anything about it and aren't really involved then why are you packin' the water? this bill stinks and it's only goal is to take tags from the rank and file and give them to guys with a buncha money that can afford anything. you can say anything you want about all the other "good" it's supposed to do, but it is still real apparant to anybody other than you guys that it ain't good for anyone but you guys. that's what you need to take back to whoever is giving you your talking points and marching orders. why don't you have one of these guys you keep refering too to tell us why they backdoored it? you didn't even tell the azgfd. i would think they would want too know right off. seeing as how it is getting directly into their business in a big way. you tried to get involved in basically everything they do, without telling them, and then get a buncha primo tags for your rich buddies. i don't understand why you guys can't understand that? if you want to do something good, do it. but don't rip everyone else off in the process. sheesh. Lark.

yeah we do want the facts and truth. the very things you keep ignoring in your posts. i know you think everyone is too stupid to know how much "good" you're gonna do us so there is no need tell us. we just wouldn't understand it anyway. being condescending ain't a real good way to win friends and influence people. and that's where you've stooped to now. and you sure haven't come up with a good reason to try to backdoor this deal. oh yeah, you were hiding it from treehuggers. i forgot. you already knew all the sportsmen and the azgfd would support it anyway. no need to even tell them until it's done and you have your tags. they are too stupid to understand how much "good" you are doing anyway. one thing that really has me wondering is why you never approached the azgfd about it? seems like they feel stabbed in the back too. turf is a real thing. it's quite apparant by the commission's comments that you invaded their turf by trying to do an end around through the backdoor of the capitol. and from reading what the vast majority of folks here seem to think, you stepped on their turf too. tried to take a buncha premium tags away from them and give them to folks that can afford anything. that is all this is about. just about anything you guys coulda done to raise money for conservation would have been met favorably. but you tried to take premium permits as your payment. i don't think it's gonna work. i sure hope it doesn't. one more time, why did you try the backdoor right off? why were you so clandestine and sneaky? why did you hide it from the those that would be most affected by this fiasco? sorta reminds me of the way weasels, snakes and skunks operate. i don't know this weiers guy or much about him. but the reason we have elections on a regular basis and not too far apart is so when politicians support things that aren't popular with the voters they can be removed from office. and he needs to know in real plain terms that this ain't a real good thing to support and that maybe he oughta wash off the residue that is left by this bill and it's pushers. and if he wants to get re-elected he best listen to those voters. Lark.

I don't know if the fact he is the only one that would work with you is a good thing. Might be a good reason other folks wouldn't. Lark.

he dang sure needs to know how folks feel. this bill and anything like it needs killed head cut off, graveyard dead so it doesn't come back as a rider on another one or some other underhanded deal. i really have a hard time with the fact that so called sportsmen tried to do this to everyone of us other sportsmen. i'm thinkin' bonuspointjohn needs to sign up for dancin' with the stars or do you think you can dance. he won't even need a partner. he can just dance around the isssues. Lark.

they're lookin' out for some of em. the ones who's names start with $. Lark.

so you pretty much admit you tried to pull a fast but you tried the backdoor to hide it from the huggers? interesting. if this is such a wonderful deal for all sportsman, why did you intentionally hide it from them? don't want their support? don't think they can be of help? they too stupid to understand the complexities of such a wonderful thing? they need someone to make their decisions for them because they are so ignorant of what is really good? taking premium permits away from folks who's only avenue to ever get a premium permit is through the public draw and basically handing those permits over to guys who can buy anything they want, anywhere, anytime, ain't a real good way to get joe sportsman on your side. doesn't really matter how much "good" you say it will do. this is a program to do exactly that. and you say it in so few sentences. you want "us" to hand over permits that "we" have a chance to get, to "them", that can go anywhere and do anything they want. and you justify it with a few lines about all the private land you're gonna open up and all the conservation things you are gonna do and this and that, but you have very few real details. everything is so vague. nothing anyone can really get any definition from. i've been in on a lot of business plans over the years and they require a lotta detail, volumes, in order to justify and get the money needed. programs that are a lot smaller than this. you're saying it will raise millions? and you want that opportunity based on a some real vague info? none of this says much to me. other than someone is trying to pull a fast one. you say Az is 17% private. and about 75% of that private land is urban. open country in Az that is where sportsmen would like to be is small single digits of thec percentage of Az open country. like the old saying, there are lies, d a m n lies and then there are statistics. you can make statistics say anything you want. i can use yours to prove my case and use yours to prove you're wrong. this program will benefit a few rich guys and whatever posse they hire to sit on an animal until they can get away from other things to come and shoot it. and whatever "good" you say it will do outside of that, will be miniscule at best. Lark

here's a question i'd like answered. if this is such a wonderful thing and has so many important ramifications that us mere morons can't understand, why did you try to backdoor it? answer that with a straight face. and if you can't find public land to hunt on in Az, you're real lazy. i don't buy that "reason" one bit. south of phx you have horrible desert with little game, indian reservations and drug corridors. southeast Az has some private land issues, but they are what they are and a guy who is willing to work won't have much problem finding a place to hunt. this thing smells a lot like george taulman and uso all over again. take away tags from "us" to give to "them" only this time under the disguise of conservation. if there are so many guys with so much money willing to lay cash down for a tag, why don't these benevolent sportsmen just donate it? Lark.

to me the real issue is taking even more permits away from "us" and giving them to someone with a buncha $$$$$. i've been applying for bighorn for nearly 40 years. if this happens, the odds of me ever getting a permit goes down. might be just a little bit as far as percentages, but they are so low now it's not very likely i'll ever get drawn. and i'm just one guy. there's a buncha folks in the same boat. you can argue all you want about how much "good" it will do. money doesn't fix things. smart folks do. anything cooked up in a backroom and brought in through the backdoor has a lotta ingredients that most folks won't like and a lotta unknown consequences that folks won't like. sounds sorta like meth to me. folks don't try stuff like this unless there is another motive. and i never said all outfitters were in on it. i don't care what anyone says, i'd bet there were some involved. this is a rotten deal for joe sportsman. i can't believe any sportsman organization would try to do this to it's members. we've seen what happened to utah. no reason to think it won't happen here. i couldn't care less if i never saw another photo of an auction tag hunter, i mean shooter, again. if these jokers woulda been upfront about it, they might have had a chance, but i kinda doubt it. too much BS in this deal for sure. Lark.

first of all, the broncos play saturday. what are the squeelers gonna be doin'? maybe rustin'? anymore my favorite team is whoever is playin' the piggsburg squeelers. Lark.

"The AZSFW has done more to benefit hunters than any other group in this state. Your commission is protected for years into the future when we have a democrat as governor. The $3.5 million dollars from the legislature 5 years ago when times were good is only because of their efforts. Please, let's acknowledge some of the good things that have happened." the above comment is pure, total, green, runny bull$h!t. the group in this state that has provided more funds, volunteered more hours, done more work and more good is the group that joe sportsman belongs too. the rank and file of Arizona hunters. every so called conservation group piled together x 10 hasn't done as much. so take that comment and go someplace else. the silence by the outfitters on this site about this deal is deafening. same as it was when uso was trying to pull their tricks. wonder why? i can imagine why. a bunch of em are in on it. just like they were with the uso deal. this deal would benefit a few wealthy, well connected folks and not much else. the similarities between the two ploys are very interesting to say the least. glad the commission grew a pair and turned it down. it'll be back in awhile tho. with different clothes on, but it will be the same sorry rat that this is. Lark.

i heard they accidently called the cops when they were trying to order pizza. Lark.

fertilizer from coal? what'll they think of next? do they burn it to extract what they need or what? i thought you were talking about oil. oh well, live and learn. Lark.

state law allows you to kill one per day in many areas. and there are places that it is entirely possible for a good houndman to do it. head to the strip. that place has about as many lions as it does cedar trees. i saw a trailcam photo that had 8 lions in one photo the other day. and what is wrong with us shooting every one we see? it ain't hurt the herd so far. even with what seems like a really big buncha folks seeing lions these days, even if they shot everyone it wouldn't hurt them sneaky suckers too much. you caught a really nice lion. come over here and catch some. Lark.

i've been around a power plant or 40. picked up a little experience with em. i guess they just as well shut down all them coal burners then it sounds like. last i knew ngs put out 2250 mgw at full load. did they curtail it? Lark.

i am part owner, as a taxpayer, of a buncha wolf/dog crosses. Lark.

oil based fertilizer? don't think so. that's another ruse that the huggers like to use. here is a site you should check out. http://depletedcranium.com/once-again-fertilizer-is-not-petroleum-based/ fertilizer is mostly mined, but it ain't made outta oil. potasium, nitrates, stuff like that. potash is another big ingredient in a lot of it too. but it ain't petroleum based. potash might be a byproduct of pertroleum burning tho. Az has somewhere around 6-7000 mgw of coal fired electricity right now. i don't think coal is ever going to be a big minority. coal units are generally base load units. that means they run WFO all the time. the little gas burners are used to take up the slack. most of em don't run much in the winter time in Az, because there isn't a need for the power. they run like a sonofagun in the summer. mgw hours of coal fired electricity in Az is way more than gas. they have built a buncha gas burners in the past few years, but they just aren't real big units. most of them are gas turbines, which is a stationary jet engine that spins a generator. some of the them are combined cycles, where they take the exhaust gas from a gas turbine and use it to heat up a little boiler and then use the steam to spin a little generator. they have built some gas fired steam units recently too, but not a bunch. gas turbines and combined cycle units are real popular. if the treehuggers get their way and they make em shut down Navajo, you will see a rash of gas burners for sure then. copper is what most of us think about when we think of mines in Az. and they are a big money maker. be nice if we didn't need em, but we do. Lark.

be a long time before the gas burners take over and almost everything from palo verde goes to californy. besides, the fuel in palo verde comes from mines too. Lark.

get an Az map and put a red mark on every working mine, and you can even put one on the ones that are no longer in operation. they don't take up much space. they do devistate the immediate area the occupy. but they don't occupy that much. figure in the literal billion$ they bring into this state every year, they ain't such a bad deal. they are quite ugly, but they sure support a lot o' folks. most of the power in this state comes from coal that comes from a coal mine, too. Lark.

if you're willing to work hard, there are lotsa place in Az that noooooobody hunts. you just hafta be rugged enough to get there. good luck. Lark.

first off, that's a big ol' tom. but why do you new mexicans keep hollerin' at us Az guys because we feel like we have a lotta lions? and 100 square kilometers is a place about 6 miles x 6 miles. a little over that actually, but a lot less than 7x7. 3 to 4 lions seems like quite a few in a 6x6 mile square. a survey done on the ladder ranch in new mexico doesn't have a lotta bearing on what we have in Az. just the fact it was done on the ladder makes me look at the "facts" sorta skepticaly. but that is big ol' tom. now bring them mutts over here and sniff some up on dry ground. you can shoot one a day in most areas. Lark.

it was most likely some type of cowdog. at least a couple of the original "wolves" that were used to breed this thing they have now, were pets on ranches and were part domestic dog. it has been a long time, but it really seems that they only had 2 animals that were known to be pure wolf and at least one of them was extremely old. there were several articles in the newspapers a few years ago where the wolfers actually blamed the dog dna that was showing up on folks releasing hybrid wolf/dog crosses in the wild and they had bred with the "wolves". and they talked like there were a bunch of em released too. i've never even known anyonw who had a hybrid. but all the sudden a bunch of em got released and got hung up with these things? good story i guess. i don't believe it. if you really want to figure out what is going on this wold deal for yourself, go back to the beginning. do some research and find it. this started probably close to 30 years ago. the original seed was planted by folks with an agenda, they got the endangered species folks and and the usfw and a few other feds to get on board with them and then it took off. the "wolves" were bred in captivity up north. seems like wisconsin or minnesota. maybe even michigan. and under some real suspicious terms. one thing that stuck out to me was that wherever it was, at the time, there were a lot of outfits in the same general area that were advertising hybrid wolves for sale as pets. go figger. when i got into it enough to prove to myself it was just a big lie there weren't any computers and stuff to search with. it oughta be real easy now. so get after it and make an informed decision. don't believe anything anyone tells you and convince yourself one way or the other. quit all the finger pointing and figure it out. like the x files, the truth is out there. now go find it. Lark.