.270

YES BRUTHAS, I HAVE SEEN THE MOUNTAIN TOP-UH. AND IT IS GOOD-UH! SEEN IT IN A DREAM-UH. ALL LIT UP AND SHINY AND ALL KINDSA MANLY STUFF EVERWHERE-UH. IT WAS MADE OUTTA LOGS AND ROCKS-UH. NO CLOUDS OR NOTHIN'. IT WAS FULLA DEER-UH, AND ELK-UH, AND MEESES-UH, AND ANTELOPES-UH. AND GUNS-UH. AND CAMO-UH. YES BRUTHAS, I WAS AT THE NEW CABELAS-UH. and it was good. hoooeeee. sorry about tryin' to sound like a evengelical preacher, but it was almost a religiuos experience. talk about a growed man's chuckycheese. took my middle son to olathe, kansas, to school. just down the road near KC is the new cabelas store. goodnight what a place! must be 200-300 record deer in there. dozens of huge bull elk, moose, sheep, pronghorns, etc. plus lions and bobcats and such. full sized elephant mounts. and aquarium with some huge fish. blue cats that weighed probably 100 lbs. or more. oh yeah, they had stuff for sale too. just like bein' inside a cabelas catalog. except for the guns. hundreds. they had a lot of used guns too, just like any other gun store. neat place. if you're ever in KC, don't miss it. Lark

i have a couple .300's. shoot a handload with 165 gr. hornady boattails. works great on anything in the west. my youngest son shot a coues with the one we call "FARKILLER" last year. pretty much ruined the whole deer. one shot, right where you wanna hit em, too. way too much gun for coues, i think. i mean if that's all ya got, fine, but i'd recomend a lot less gun for these dinky things. i'd use the lightest, toughest to expand bullet i could find tho. something that won't blow the heck out of em. they're pretty good to eat. Lark.

someone sent me an email saying they thought it was illegal to shoot a lion during pig season. not so. a couple years back there was a statute that limited what you could take and what you could take it with, during spring turkey, javelina and some elk seasons. but that has been set aside. and you could always take a lion during a season you had a permit for, if you had a lion tag. anyway, it was all legal and reported to the game and fish and all that. buy a tag, shoot a lion. Lark.

everyone needs to buy a tag and pack a gun. when you see one, shoot it. they're everywhere. i've taken quite a few over the years. we got one last year during pig season. if you know what you're looking for, their sign is everywhere. they make a neat rug, too. ain't bad in green chili and make decent jerky too. Lark.

there's a lot o' thin skinned guys out there. the annonymous stuff is bull-loney. even before i signed on here, i used my name. who cares? i guess there are a lot of guys that really look up to some of the more famous (or infamous) folks that are in magazines and videos and stuff and when they read something contrary to what they choose to believe it makes em mad. i was just afraid i missed something outrageous. i like outrageous. and there are a lot of guys that will believe BS without any facts behind it, too. it sorta keeps the hunters split up in little groups. everyone needs to remember that we should all be on the same side, even if we have different views and opinions on some of the underlying aspects of hunting. we should all have conservation of wildlife and our privilege to hunt it as our main goal and not let the other petty jealousies that will undoubtedly occur, interfere with that goal. the best way to defeat any group is to divide it against itself. anti's understand this and use it well and us being a buncha dumb@$$e$ tend to fall for it a lot. everyone needs to remember that they may have to put differences aside when it comes time to fight and all fight on the same side. this is why the uso deal is sorta good. it polarized everyone and there is very little middle ground. sorta shakes out the dead leaves so's a guy can see who is still in the tree with him. taulman is probably surprised at how little support he's seen for his cause. like i say, if a guy doesn't like to see his name in the paper, don't do anything good or bad. but mostly, it's the bad guys that get the press. hunt hard, Lark.

just when we go and get us a good controversy goin' with rumor and inuendo, you go and spoil it with facts. like the game and fish always says, "facts? we don't need stinkin' facts". hunt on, Lark.

Az. guide, did i miss somethin'? dang, i miss all the good stuff. hope i was one o' the guys that got pounded, because i probly deserve it. teach me to go lookin' for elk. if it was over mentioning ryan hatch, big deal. that guy has to have skin thicker than a gator to take all the abuse he takes and still stay in the radar. as for anyone whoever got busted, it's their albatross. if you don't want your name in public record, then don't get arrested. Lark.

just because the guy is a bad shot, doesn't make him a bad guy. while i'll admit that there seems to be some substance to b&c's beef, what about all the crap that herb klein pulled? he has more heads than anyone in b&c and is revered as some kind of god with them. and from what i've heard, wasn't much of a sportsman. alaska's strict no fly laws were instituted just to stop him. there is one way to stop a bunch of this record book garbage. don't list the guys name. they are supposed to be a record of the animal, but they aren't. they are a bragging post for the guys that shot em. i got treated real shabby by b&c about 30 years ago. never bothered with em since. the book that the Az. wildlife federation keeps is a worthwhile deal i think. don't have much use for any of the rest of em. i mentioned Kirt Darner in another post. know him fairly well. i did several years of real exhausting research into his deal with b&c and am real confident that he is right and they are wrong. proved it to myself and as far as i'm concerned, i'm the only that counts in my opinions. won't even begin to make any other observations about the guy, but do agree that b&c treated him bad and cost him a fortune. but he still hunts and kills huge bucks. he shot a muley in mexico a few years ago that would be #2 typical in b&c and he now owns a buck that would be #1 typical. bet b&c worries about him trying to enter them. i think it's funny and sorta ironic. but i still maintain, and always will, that if there were no record books, a buncha the crap we see would dissappear. Lark.

i still say taulman is involved in this. guess we'll know someday. but i'd bet a coke on it. Lark.

be nice packhorse, i'm one o' the good guys.

bullwidgeon, allright, passion. stay with it. i've been trying for a sheep tag for 31 years. no luck. i hope the non-res that got my tag this year enjoys it. is this for real? 20%?!!!! aw man, i'm even madder now. oh well, what would i do with a sheep tag? dirty no good sobs. i feel like i've been groin kicked. where'd you read this? i'm gonna have to respond to my buddy duane. i agree, the director, shroufe and the commission are nutless. all they worry about is offending non hunters. they know hunters have to do what they say and live with it. like i say, they're all politicians. sound scientific data has no use in the sytem they've developed. only thing that matters is appearance and what the folks at the next cocktail party at the country club will think about em. i bet napalitano laughs outloud everyday at the way she has em bent over. rembrandt, other than let the commission, shroufe, and every game warden i ever see know how i feel about the situation and attend every meeting that i can that i feel has merit, and provide all the input i can, correspond with the governor's office, etc., i ain't gonna do anything. until there is wholesale replacement at the very top, don't expect much change. isn't shroufe from like maine or vermont or some dang foreign place? let's get us a western director with a western attitude and get some real hunters who understand a little about biology, and nothing about politics, on the commission.

my bull!?!? you jackass. you leave my bull alone, bret. hope you shoot a cow. i was gonna tell ya about a 400 bull north of springertown, but not now. i'll tell griz and he take a uso guy in there. watch out for the purple bear turds. i'll talk to ya when ya get back to work. Lark.

Az. guide, hatch got caught up in the "operation navajo buck" deal. him, sam carpenter and julius fortuna and a hunter or 2. they all plead guilty to some lesser stuff, except the hunter or hunters and i think fortuna. seems like at least one of the hunters got hammered big. 20 or 30 grand. sam plead to some misdemeanors. seems like he picked up some sheds in the grand canyon park. can't take anything out of a national park. from what i read the were trying to use his as a wedge on the other guys. can't remember all of it, but it had to do with using a chute plane and a big buck of the navajo rez. in hatch's case, he is a convicted poacher. he has a real infamous reputation. don't know him personally, or care too, but folks i know that do know him, including one of his cousins, really dislike the guy. looked to me like the case had some real merit but the guys investigating it did a pretty bad job on their end of the case and most of it slipped away. but i know hatch and i think fortuna plead guilty to some stuff. so there had to be something there to start with, or they wouldn't have plead. they spent big $$$ fighting it. it was kinda wierd all through. i remember reading once that julius fortuna wasn't really julius fortuna and they were trying to figure who he really was exactly. that seemed real odd to me. according to an article posted elsewhere on here today, it says that the deal with taulman getting busted for flying and spotting elk during season was part of the "operation". i hadn't heard that before. i had heard about the case against taulman, but not that it was part of the "operation navajo buck" deal. the whole case doesn't paint a very good picture of guides and outfitters in general. i also heard that the charges against taulman were dropped. which is a cryin' shame. the hunting world is turning into a dang soap opera. the knight and hale guys got busted for some sorta violation in utah and plead guilty. some guy tied with buckmasters blew his guides head off on and elk hunt in new mex last year. there was the fiasco with my ol' buddy kirt darner and b&c a few years back. then he even got hammered for letting a client shoot a cow elk from the truck a couple years ago. turned out it was a robot. man, that'd be embarrassing. the deal with operation navajo buck and taulman and stayner. man, it goes on and on. glad i ain't a guide anymore. and chd, if you didn't lump me in with the rest o' the poachers, you did a pretty good job of hiding it. i sure felt like you were. as far as cal goes, whatever. he's probably dead now anyway. and until i see something definitive, i'm not gonna throw any rocks. and i ain't ethical, i'm legal. all ethics are is an opinion, and in my opinion, i think i'll go huntin'.............Lark.

you go get em allen. i wondered if anybody with any smarts would help me out. good post dude. Lark.

my biggest problem with the whole thing, i mean other thinking uso and all it's employees are trash, is the way the azgfd dealt with it. they lost this thing a couple years ago and just sorta ignored the ruling until they were forced to act. they should have negotiated their way out of it over that time period. the worst thing they did was let it all happen during the draw. talk about some real stupidity on the azgfd part. if they'd have handled it before hand it would have been a lot better for them in the eyes of Az. residents. we're all monitoring the computer to see if we get a tag, and up pops the little deal that says, well, no draw yet fellers because uso whupped us. but the nonresident permit deal is just one small part of a real big problem. things like the director and commissions inability to deal with predator control, poachers, nontraditional elk herds, sabino canyon lions, backing off of anything that might "offend" someone even tho scientific data says otherwise, etc., to me, are a much bigger problem. this nonresident deal really makes me mad, but in the big picture, it's pretty small and basically out of azgfd hands, because they let it get to the point that the feds get to dictate the outcome. we've lost the nonresident deal. still remains to be seen just how badly. but in principle, uso won their suit. also remains to be seen if they will really win the big prize or not, as in being able to stay in business with all the adverse publicity. but like i say, i'm more worried about other actions than the nonresident permit deal, now anyway. it was hard to get a elk tag before, now it'll be a little harder. the letter the ranchers wrote to the azgfd awhile back is bothersome too. don't know where that is gonna lead, but it probably won't be good and i'll still bet a coke that taulman is tied in with it. anyway, hopefully the commission will surprise me and come with something cool. we'll see. but their past record doesn't allow for a lotta optimism. Lark.

hey chd, one other thing, if it's public record, show me. i tried a little when the first post said he was a convict and found nothing. tried again today, same thing. found one thing that had his name on it, it said 0 arrests, 0 convictions. if it was just a game violation, and not a felony, it may not show up. i don't know. but i know that felony records are pretty easy to find. i have to do that quite a bit. but misdemeanors may or may not show up. and remember, record books aren't law enforcement people. just because some record book kicked something out doesn't have a thing to do with poaching. they can do whatever they want, to whoever they want, and i'm quite convinced that they do things to some folks just because the don't like them. i ain't callin' anyone a liar. but i'd like to see this public record. seems that if someone with his reputation had been busted, someone woulda heard about it. seems like you got your info 2nd hand too. there was a big controversy a few months back about some noted coues hunter that got in a row with b&c because they said he altered a rack. can't remember his name. seems like he's a custom rifle maker. anyway, a buncha folks were hollerin' poacher at him too, when there was nothing more than an opinion by b&c. maybe b&c was right, maybe the hunter was, i don't know. but i do know this, he was never charged with anything, but folks acted like he was just because b&c did what they did. if coziah got caught poaching, i want to see it. but if all there is some record keepers opinion that he broke some points off a rack, then heck with it all. i don't even care a little bit. hearsay is just that. i sorta doubt if the ol' codger is even kickin' anymore. when i met him it seemed like he was near 70, and that was a long time ago. but like i say, if there's a record, i wanna see it. enquiring minds want to know. anyway, i want to see the proof. not 2nd or 3rd hand either. don't want to hear that a friend of a cousins friend told ya so. and i ain't takin' up the cal coziah banner and wavin' it for anyone. i just want to know. later, Lark Hubbard.

don't make jelly outta bear leavin's, bullwidgeon. it just ain't right. beside, you've been bear huntin' all wrong. read this. Lark. and answer my email. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/081...rBear19-ON.html

Amanda, you ever make prickly pear jelly? a hot fresh biscuit, some real butter and prickly pear jelly, it is pure heaven. my grandparents were prickly pear freaks. made the the concentrate and then made all kindsa stuff out of it. juice and jelly mostly. they would talk all year, wondering how the pear crop would be. a few years back, while on a trip back home to the mt.s, we were taking the mule creek road up from the gila and i noticed a lot of ripe pears. pulled over and got the wife and kids out and we picked a bunch. took em home and made a bunch of juice. Carol made a bunch of jelly and we froze the rest. still have a bag or 2 in the freezer today. all we had a was one pair of leather gloves and a couple card board boxes that day. got fulla stickers, but had fun. another thing it is great in, is tea. but the jelly is worth fighting over. one trick i learned from my ol' grandad was the right kinda gloves. there is a type of glove, cement finishers use them a lot, that really works well. they are a heavy cotton glove that has been dipped in rubber. they're usually flourescent red. with them you don't need tongs. just grab the pears and break em off. the little hairy stickers won't go through the gloves and it's a lot easier than tongs. seems like i always got fulla stickers even with tongs. anyway, great to hear that folks are still old schoolin' it and doin' a little livin' off the land. mmmmmmmmmmmmmm prickly pear jelly..............

dang CHD, don't hold back. tell us how ya really feel. i've never heard about coziah being a poacher until this. or until the post you were refering too. all i know about the guy is what i read about him in the early 80's. read several articles about him in a couple magazines and a pal had a book he wrote and i read it. met him once at a show. i thought he was a real interesting guy. old guy that shot a junky bow and killed some huge stuff. a lot of my opinions about camo and using the wind i got from reading his. if the guy is a convicted poacher, ok. shame on him. i never knew that. but he has still killed some huge animals. as far as breaking off cheaters. who cares? i think record books are the most bogus thing there is. too political for me. too many rules. i feel they're one of the worst banes on hunting because it causes things like this and causes a lot of resentment and jealousy among hunters. i've taken a lot of animals that would make a book of some kind. never entered even one. don't need it to validate what i do. i like to have a score system just for comparison, but as far as record books, i just don't care. i hunt to hunt. i hunt with my dad, my brother and my sons and on occasion a friend or two and maybe an extended family member that needs some help. i hunt rough country that nobody else wants to be in. don't need a range finder and fancy camo and a 800 yard rifle either. use my 60 year old .270 and keep the wind in my face. take my ol' pony when it's real rough. as far as an oldtimer, i'm old enough for aarp. there ain't a unit it Arizona i haven't hunted or fished. same goes for just about the whole 4 corners and the entire west. like i said, i just hunt. if ol' cal is a poacher, fine. i didn't do it. and i really don't care one way or another if he did. he's the one that has to live with himself. but don't insinuate that i'm that way. it ain't healthy. i like this site because there are a bunch of youngsters on it. guys that are gungho, like i used to be. guys that dream about hunting. after multiple knee surgeries and other crap, i just can't around like i used to. but i still get around. i think there are a lot of well known folks that work outside the law. until they get caught and convicted, there ain't much you can do about it. anyway, i ain't a poacher, don't associate with folks that i know to be, don't agree with it and don't condone it and i feel that record books foster it. never even heard of the other guy you mentioned, so don't toss me in that pile. never even read magazines anymore. to much bull in em. we got 5 deer tags and 1 bull tag, this year. i have 5 friends that got elk permits also. when the winter is over, we will have taken 5 deer and 6 bulls in Az. hope to squeeze in a little out o' state hunting too. some might be big, some might not. all i care about is having a good time. Lark.

primos responded to my nastygram with one o' their own. said the newsletter was wrong. they dropped all association with uso soon after the decision. even cancelled hunts they already had booked with em. makes me feel a little better. maybe us "uneducated residents" can really make a difference. still need to see what the long term situation turns out to be. uso has a lot of permits and a lot of land locked up. we'll see a year or so down the road just how many of these big time sponsors are still staying away from uso. folks tend to forget pretty quick. taulman might have won the court case, but the real winner here is still undecided. depends on how tough and intelligent shroufe and the commission deal with it. i still don't have a lot of optimism there. them dudes are wimps. some of the stuff i see that they are thinking about trying, i don't really agree with. go ahead and raise prices and stuff, but none of the bonus point stuff will make any difference after a couple years. a preferance point system like colorado might be more appropriate. the bonus points worked for awhile, until everyone got a bunch of em stockpiled, plus someone with no points can still be drawn ahead of a guy with max points. needs to be the other way around. i don't agree with a bonus point for doing conservation work, or whatever they were calling it. some folks can't do anything like that. i really agree with volunteer work and feel it does a lot of good, but i can't see discriminating because of it. anyway, azgfd has the ball, hope they don't punt again.

you guys are wrong. last thing ya need is a cabelas close to you. we'll all be broke and unemployed. instead o' workin', you'll spend all your time at cabelas. instead o' makin' house payments and buyin' food for yer kids, you'll blow yer money at cabelas. it's horrible. all them deer and elk heads, and aquariums, and stuff to buy.........ton's o' stuff.................oh crap, i'm gonna hafta drive out there again tomorrow i think. can't take it.

i sent this email to primos this morning. get on their websit, primos.com, and there is place for email, i think i sent mine to customer service. anyway, for whatever it's worth. later, Lark. just a note to let primos know that as long as they are part and party to united states outfitters and a sponsor of their show and use their services, I will no longer purchase or use primos products or watch their tv show. knowing that I am just one hunter and that the lack of my business will have no effect on primos' bottom line, I still feel that what uso has done to the state of Arizona is nothing other than thievery brought on by pure greed, and by being a sponsor of uso, primos is part of that same thievery. i've always felt primos made decent products and have always enjoyed the tv program, because there is no re-enactment in it, but as long as primos is a part of the uso syndicate, i will never watch again and i'll use a radiator hose with a trojan stretched over the end, before i ever use primos products again. what uso has done is disgusting, no matter what the courts say. i'm a 4th generation Arizona native, one of the "uneducated residents" that uso so proudly proclaimed in their recent newsletter. my dad, who is nearly 80, finally got another Arizona elk tag, after 18 years, and it's only his 3rd in his entire life. with the rules new and with uso's "hunter pools" most Arizonans can forget ever getting another elk permit. just rich folks, like the primos staff, will be able to get drawn now. uso is a sorry organizaton run by sorry greedy people, that treats it's everyday, working class clients like trash. i can't believe that primos wants to be associated with that type of organization. i have more respect for child molesters. anyway, enough venom. and again, I am just one hunter, but there are a bunch of us "one hunters", and added up, we make a difference. sincerely, Lark Hubbard, real hunter, Queen Creek, Arizona. p.s. i know you won't respond and will only laugh at my note, but i really don't care.

glad to hear about foxworthy. i was havin' a real dilemna there. tryin' to hate a guy that makes me laugh so hard. somebody that knows unit 10 well oughta give him a call and offer to help him out for free. Gary kicked uso off the 4drag? cool. i haven't talked to him in a couple weeks, i'll hafta tell him good deal. man i hate gettin' so stinkin' mad, but that line about "uneducated residents" just really tipped me over. zumbo still sucks. oh well. if i was a non-resident and had a tag, even if it was one that i got honorably, through the draw, i'd be worried about hunting here. and that ain't a threat, it's a genuine concern. when i hunt, the last thing i want is something to screw it up. and having that in the back of the mind would grind on me. i see uso having to provide some fairly tight security around their camps and stuff. how much could that be? last thing a guy wants when he hunts is bad feelings. we're all hunters and we all need to band together, but i have a hard time wanting to see nonresidents be succesfull and have a good time, and that ain't right. for the most part, they're just good ol' boys wanting to hunt. but taulman, griz and their stinkin' greed have really screwed it up for everyone. the residents are ticked over the non residents getting our tags and the nonresidents that got lucky can't feel too good about getting the tag of a lifetime because they know everyone they meet from Az. hates their guts. only one getting what he wants is taulman. Lark.

when good hunts go bad, now dat's funny. or "Az. hunters gone wild". look for a grouchy lookin' cowboy in a red gmc or on a mean lookin' sorrel horse when you're in 27.

so taulman says that real tree dropped him because of pressure by "a few uneducated residents". dang that steams me. i think Az. residents are pretty well educated. especially now after gettin' hosed by a buncha "educated" nonresidents with fat wallets and shiny lawyers. guess he's feelin' froggy, now that he ruined hunting in Az. hey george and griz, i know you guys read this site. you guys are liars and thieves. punks o' the woods. gotta hide behind lawyers. lowest form of scum in the world. with lies, deceipt and lawyer trickery you've stolen something very sacred to a lot of folks. you best be ready to deal with the fallout. you're a few guys and you've pissed off the whole west. this is gonna get ugly. only thing that bothers me is that i know some decent guy is gonna let his emotions get him in trouble. over trash like you. poor times for sure. i will be in 27 on the late hunt. maybe we'll "bump" into each other. you guys saddled this bronc, lets see if you can ride it. i've never seen a yellow dog that could ride very well anyway. we'll see who has the last laugh. dang i'm hot. hard to keep things in perspective right now. uneducated residents, why didn't he just say stupid hillbillys or rednecks or something even more derogatory? i see primos is still with em. i sorta figured the letter we saw was bogus. forget those guys. they make junk and trinkets for eastern dudes anyway. unless they've dropped em since it was written. didn't look at the date. who cares about zumbo? the guy is undoubtedly the phoniest writer i've ever seen. he's never killed anything of any size without a guide. little dwarf would get lost in a parking lot. dang, that uso letter is a real poke in the eye to us Arizonians. and you can tell that is all it is, too. like the litte fat kid in school that poked his tongue out at ya and ya had to smack him around for it. oh well, think i'll make a copy of it and pack it in my wallet. might have the chance to get someone to "eat" their words, literally. this has the makings of a really interesting fall. later, Lark.