.270

for it to happen twice in just a few weeks in one fairly small area is a rough deal. gotta be hard on the community, not to mention how it affects those involved. sad deal for sure. sure be hard to hunt after a deal like that. hope they all recover from it. i was raised around apaches and they seem to really take things to heart. as group they can be real mournfull but they will rally round each other. went to school with em. worked with em. worked for em. have some great friends from both of the big apache communities in Az. the tribe does some goofy things sometimes, but the folks are great folks and this will really be a sad thing for them to deal with. sure feel for the whole bunch of em. Lark.

no wonder the azgfd is always outta money. was just reading the proposals that they want public comment on. most of it is just verbage, i guess so the lawyers can't pry things around. but there are a couple proposals that sorta worried me. one was them being able to have some control over OHV's. off highway vehicles. when did they become the highway patrol? i mean, i don't even like 4 wheelers and stuff. they're just in the way to me. won't get me where i want to go. noisy. but i don't have a real problem with folks that use em with a little responsibility. but why does the azgfd feel like they need some legislation so they can have more control over em? ain't there enough rules and reg's in the forest circus, the blm, state land dept., county laws, etc. to pretty much govern OHV's? sounds like a ploy for some other purpose that they don't wanna come right out and state, to me. the other was wanting to increase the size of crayfish nets from 24" to 30". now i'll put up with a lotta crap, but this just unsportsmanlike. ok, i'm bein' fecesious now (and feces is the root word of fecesious). why do they need an act of congress, literally, to increase the size of a net used to take an animal from the waterways that they don't want here and does more damage to our pretty fragile desert aquatic places than about anything else? why not make the net size unlimited and allow ya to use dynamite? just seems like a pretty mickey mouse thing to waste time on to me. crawdad nets. and ya know they payed some lawyer to come up with the words used in it. why? i guess if the crawdad population gets low they'll be wanting to protect them next. just last year they were trying to get everyone to do all they could to erradicate em. Lark.

i can't imagine the smell o' anything botherin' a billy goat. javelinas have been known to shy away from that smell. it would be funny, sorta, if some dude shot a goat and put his tag on it. and old rancher friend o' mine told me a funny story about a deal like that awhile back. them goats must be pretty well trained if ya don't hafta lead em. man, i gotta quit, i'm thinkin' o' all kindsa crude comments to make. have fun, i'll stick with equines. Lark.

i reload for a .270 a lot. but use mostly 140 gr. hornady boattails. loaded a bunch of 100 gr. for my kids to use for coues this year. use hodgdon and imr powders mostly. have used some hercules, but it doesn't work as well in my rifle. have one question, why barnes bullets? i tried em a little when they first got popular, still have some that i never loaded. had to load em so light because of the extra length and the pressure they build, that the balistics really stunk. i mean the bullets are alright and stuff. seem to shoot through everything. i prefer a bullet to wad up on the offside, under the skin. that way you know all the energy is expelled inside the animal. but i couldn't get within 200-300 fps of what i can with regular ol' lead bullets without blowing primers and swelling the heck out of the cases. there are a couple places you can get some good info on the net from homegrown reloaders. search on .270 reloading data or something similar. Lark.

ok, ok, i give up. been bitin' my tongue all mornin' since seein' the sheepherder cane and thinkin' of about a hunnerd different jokes about it. now we got goat photos? pack goats? is this for real? i mean i use horses, mules, donkeys, my kids, etc. to pack with. seen some guys with some llamas once. spitting suckers! even seen folks with pack dogs. but goats? i'm about the best pack saddle maker i ever knew. ain't never had nobody axe me for no goat saddle. i ain't even a little interested in usin' em, i have a couple o' them stupid pygmy goats and that's all i ever wanna deal with, but do pack goats (i can't type them 2 words together without laughin) really work? how many you gotta take? aw man, i hate to be joker here, but this is sorta funny. pack goats? for reals? guess if ya run a little low on supplies you can always have a barbecue. and if it gets cold you can always pull up another goat. sorta like "3 dog night". sorry about the ribbin', but this sorta hit me in a funny spot. Lark.

first off, the mexican gray wold is extinct and has been for a couple decades. every animal that the usfws is trying to reintroduce is part dog. every one of em. when they started their breeding program, there were no wolves left and they started with some animals that all had dog DNA. some were half dog. that's a fact. it's hidden deep in their propoganda, but it's there. i've made a couple of the wolfers admit it to me and have had a azgfd biologist tell me the same thing and he's the one that showed me the data in the program. all this wolf introduction is, is a wolf/dog cross, introduction. you can't "re-introduce" something that never existed in the wild. i still don't think establishing a population is the goal. it's a tool to eventually stop ranching, logging and hunting on federal land. the reason the wolf reintriduction worked well in wyoming and montana is because they had real, live, wild animals to start with. they just took them from one place and started them up in another that had the same elevation, flora, fauna, climate, etc. the reason this crap in Az. and new mex is such a miserable failure is because they started out with pen raised, domesticated, wolf/dog crosses that a buncha hippies tried to "teach" how to be wild animals. and when one does become sorta wild, they shoot it, because it won't stay put and just eat wild animals. the whole program is a waste of money and a burden on the folks that live in those areas. if you accidently shoot one, because you think it's a coyote (and they look just like a coyote) you will go to prison if you're caught and you'll be a convicted felon for the rest of your life. even if it was a complete accident with no intention of breaking a law. as far as re-introducing grizzlies, they're extinct too. they ain't the same animal as lives north of here. the sonoran grizzly was a different animal. same genus, different sub-species. be the same thing as trying to introduce eastern whitetail and callin' em coues deer. if you think taking an animal from the high country of the north and putting it in fringe desert like we have here is gonna work , best think again. it'd be just as big o' fiasco as this wolf/dog deal is. Lark.

i've had guys do that to me, but most of the time they know i ain't a deer and they really just wanna shoot me. sorry &^%$#'s. i hate gettin' shot too! Lark.

Brian, without knowing what kinda fps you're rifle really shoots, it's hard to make a real good guess. ya need to know exactly what your rifle does, in the velocity category, in order to know what it's gonna do down range. just the few thousandths of an inch difference in the chamber "throat" that is different in all makes of rifles, is enough to make a couple hundred fps difference, with identical ammo. that's the main advantage of handloading. getting rounds that are custom fit just for your rifle that will shoot the tightest group possible. a 2 or 3" group at a hundred yards can be 2 or 3 feet at long ranges. another thing to think about, after 400 yds' or so, is that any rifle drops like a rock. simple physics will tell ya that a bullet of a given weight will only stay in the air so long. gravity works the same on a moving object as it does on one dropping straight down. we've all heard the story about how if you drop a bullet and fire a bullet of the same weight, at the same time, they both hit the ground at the same time. and that is a true phenomonon. these new hand cannons, like the lazeroni's and weatherby's based on the .460/.378 case are real fast and will shoot flatter than most of the more conventional stuff, but a 180 gr bullet out of one of them and out of anything else will still stay in the air the same amount of time. the faster bullet stays in the air farther, but not longer. all you are doing is stretching out the distance that it's in the air, not the time. once a bullet begins it's downward trip, it don't take long to get there. there is a "corridor" for any bullet/fps combination, where gravity takes over real fast. where a bullet may drop say 24" at 400, if it's sighted in at 200, it will probably drop 5 or 6 feet or more at 550 or 600. once it starts going down, the curve gets real dramatic. and the curve is always the same. you can change the elevation by sighting it in high, but the actual path the bullet takes stays the same. physics is a hunters worst enemy. well, that and uso. find a chronograph and see exactly what your gun is doing and then see what you can do at extended ranges for real. and don't forget about thermals. if you were shooting across a deep canyon, like u27 is known for, there ain't no way to calculate for what up drafts and down drafts and swirls and all that kinda crap can do. just because it's calm where you are, doesn't mean the air is calm out across a canyon. a little wind can drift a bullet a long way at long ranges. and don't forget about the buck fever deal either. even a seasoned stone cold killer like me gets it. bad, too. and sometimes it's just like somebody is snatchin' your bullets right outta the air and there ain't a good reason for missin'. 27 is a heartache waitin' to happen. we saw a couple thugs about 2 miles away, one evening this season and figgerd they'd be in the same place next morning. they were too, only one o' the local guides from alpine ran in with a couple guys in front of us and shot a raghorn and ran off the big ones. never could find em again. my friend ended up getting a real good 50" wide 6x6 with devil points, but it wernt a patch to the 2 we saw a few days before. good luck, Lark.

i've always done the yucca pole truck myself. cheap, easy to find. i have a swiss army knife that has a little saw in it. works great to saw off both ends. sticks are real handy going downhill. i don't have an acl in my right knee and sometimes it'll just pop loose, especially when in steep downhill country. a good stick makes things a lot better. another time they're real handy is when you have a heavy pack on. a tripod is more stable than a bipod. Lark.

breeze, i think that the bigger bucks will try and fight instead of running off, too. seems to look to me like that maybe does and small bucks just run when they sense a predator and a bigger buck will turn and fight and get their neck broke. of all the lion kills i've seen, it seems that a lot more were mature bucks than anything and from what i could gather at the scene o' the crime, it looked like maybe macho got the best o' the buck. Lark.

had to spend the past 4 days in "noth keh-a-lina" (north carolina for those from rio linda). had a free day wed. so travelled down charlotte way and toured a buncha the nascar shops. DEI, RCR, Roush, Petty, Yates. was quite surpised how much these guys are into hunting and conservation. i knew a lot of em hunted and stuff, but some of the stuff that i saw sorta made me feel good. first thing you see at DEI, before you see car or a trophy, is 2 bulls that Dale Earnhardt shot. one from the gila range in new mex and one from the white mt. rez. both were high 300 grossing or maybe even low 400 bulls. big and gnarly. Richard Childress has a big wildlife display. polar bear, several grizzlies and browns and blacks. some really big elk, muleys, and whitetail. a lion. and even one really nice coues from mexico. there were a lot of different plaques with a lot of things written on them, but there were several with his views on hunting and conservation that really made me think. he really has a true respect for the animals he pursues and it really made me feel good to read what he had written about his love of hunting and fishing and his love of pursuing it with family and friends. you could tell a real sadness in his words about missing his friend, Dale Earnhardt and how he missed being in the woods with him. sorta hit me hard, knowing that my ol' man don't have near as many moons after now as he's had before and knowing that one o' these seasons, i'm gonna hafta do it without him. sure made me think and appreciate what i've got to do with that ol' codger. Earnhardt supports quite a few conservation efforts and even has one of his own. he is also a big supporter of the boy scouts, as am i, and made no apologies for it. anyway, i've always been a big fan o' the good ol' boys from nascar and now i'm even a bigger one. made me feel good to see and read the things i did. just thought i'd pass it along. later, Lark.

what is this? i leave for a couple weeks to rid the countryside of them elk vermins and than i get all slanderized because some dude owns a cool mule? heck, i'd claim that mule in a heartbeat. a guy that said he took these photos sent them to me several weeks before i left. said that the lion had been treed and shot at least once, but still had a lot of fight in it. also said the mule has done this same thing quite a few times. didn't say anything about it pulling it off of it's back after it was loaded. you can see in the photos that it's still alive. mules are an odd animal. they'll do some of the goofiest stuff you ever heard of. my ol' black mule would trail and tree right with the hounds. if it got so rough that he couldn't follow, i'd toss the reins around the horn and turn him loose. he'd follow the baying and most of the time beat me to the tree. he hated lions too, but i think it was because he felt like he ought to because the dogs did. not from some past situation or memory. mules learn things completely differently than other animals. and for different reasons. i'm pretty sure these photos are the real deal and i'm pretty sure the guy that sent em to me was tellin' the truth. said they were taken in northern new mex. ya hunt lions long enough, and you'll see some of the craziest stuff you ever imagined. i've had em jump outta the tree right into my saddle, while i was still in it. had em come down outta the tree and single me out and chase me all over the place, too. had my bacon saved more than once by a brave hound. anyway, shoot lions guys. Lark.

c'mon rembrant, you head east o' cataract a ways, like maybe a mile or so, where we were hunting, and it is stinkin' sand. someplaces just drifts o' sand. looked like death valley days. cataract is a big ol' rocky hole. but both sides of it is lots o' sand. i mean there's some cedars and pinons and brush and such, but we seen lotsa sand too. also seen one o' them stinkin' wolves that they turned loose 250 miles from there. had a radio collar on it and everthing. almost shot it too. and i told ya a million times to quit yer dang exageratin' too. all kiddin' aside, there are some big bulls where we were. i can see where it would be real hard this time o' year. they were tellin' us where they were ever morning, so it wasn't real hard locating em. with this weather and stuff, it may a hard hunt. cataract is the only place in u10 i've ever hunted. and then just the part where we were. you may be able to glass across cataract with some success. if it snows, get on a track and follow it until they have hooves in em. Lark.

the way the commission is doin' the backstroke, it's gonna happen. anybody with 4 acres is gonna get an elk tag. and hunters can forget getting drawn anymore. and i guarantee you taulman is involved. Lark.

Amanda, it was always indian land. at least from the time the rez was formed. there were a lot of folks that had ranches there when the rez was formed and they were allowed to continue leasing them, only from the tribe instead of from the feds and state. for a real long time. like i said, they had homesteads and homes and had made a lot of improvements in water and fences, etc. then the tribe basically threw em off and no restitution was payed. it was pretty ugly and the bad feelings were caused by both sides. there were a lot of lies both ways. i understood where the guys leasing the ranches came from, because they had been allowed to work the land for probably 60 or 70 years and then the tribe decided to take it back. it was a lot like what the ft. apache tribe did to the homesite leases in mcnary and at hawley lake. but at the same time the ranchers knew it was indian land and knew that someday it might happen. the whole deal with the "mineral strip" was that it was supposed to be a mining area, but no mine of any size was ever developed there. there were some fair sized operations up until maybe the late 40's and early 50's, but nothing like the size we see today. they employed quite a few folks at times, but it was sorta like a goldrush. anyway, it was a bad deal all the way around and i guess there are still some real hard feelings over it. i knew everyone that had ranches there. a couple real good guys lost a lot, but some real jerks did too. the jerks are the ones that really made it bad. it sorta reminds me of this uso lawsuit crap. niether side willing to negotiate. if the ranchers would have realized that they were gonna lose from the start, they could've got something for their assets, but they refused to move and refused to negotiate until they were just tossed off. oh well, that was a long time ago. Lark.

Az. hunting just died. i'm sick. Lark.

i don't know what "statutory" increase means. (have heard o' statutory rape and i'm thinkin' this is similar) but i'm pretty sure elk went from $60 to $76.50, pronghorn from $50 to $64.50, deer from $17.50 to $22.50 in just the past couple years. when they raised it it seems like that was the max that the current rule would allow. maybe 98 was the last time they raised the max. somebody enlighten us. i could be wrong and if i am i'll eventually admit it.......sorta. if i have to. i guess. Lark.

i think all of the "M" units have some overlooked opportunities. that's all i'm gonna say until i figger it out for sure. Lark.

i don't know what the deal is there now. back in the 60's and 70's there was a big controversy over that area. it was called the mineral strip. there were a lot of white guys that had ranch land leased for decades. heck, generations. they even had patented homesteads and homes and all kinds of improvements that were landlocked by the rez. i was just a kid when most of it took place, but the tribe ran all the gringos off and took over even the patented land without any payment. there were lotsa real hard feelings over it. i just sorta figgerd that maybe that had something to do with their rules there. maybe there are some apaches now that have sorta private ranches there now. the rest of the rez is a big ranch, but it's all ran by the tribe. anyway, what you say sounds reasonable. i know i'd like to be turned loose in "D" for a couple months with no restrictions. Lark.

a guy i was with last year got a 400 bull by cataract canyon. it's wierd hunting in sand dunes, but there are some big elk there. Lark.

good luck, .25. don't know for sure exactly what you're wanting. sounds like you're wanting to tan a buck you got. but if you ever need deer or elk skin leather, better known as buckskin, there is a place on 19th ave called the leather factory that has all kindsa stuff like that. have fun. Lark.

i've worked with leather my entire life. making saddles, tack, hunting gear, you name it. my ol' man used to tan a lot of stuff years back and i can testify that it is real hard work. do ya want to tan it with the hair on or off? either way is a lot of work. i helped my dad tan a lot of deer and cow hides when i was a kid. it is real labor intensive and you have to work it when it's ready or you'll ruin it and all the work you put into it up to there is wasted. there is a tannery in san francisco called "New Method". they do a real good job on stuff and most taxidermists this side of the mississippi send their stuff there. or did. californias bear and lion laws have stopped some taxidermy business there. i've sent them quite a few hides over the years and they've done a great job and i always got my hide back. either hair on or buckskin or latigo, they've always done a good job. and it isn't real expensive. elk buckskin and latigo is some primo stuff. i have a hide from a bull elk killed in -40 weather that i had em tan with the hair on. there ain't a night cold enough that that thing can't keep ya warm. i'd give new method a call. if you really want to tan it yourself, get on the internet and search. i'm sure there is a lot of info there. when you get done with a hide, there is a big sense of accomplishment, but it is real hard work. i won't go into all what you have to do here because it'd take a week to write it all down. there are a lot of books available and there are some home tanning kits available. and as mentioned, any good taxidermist can get it done for ya. just make sure they have it tanned and don't pickle it. pickled hides are worthless. Lark.

triton, i think it was just 2 years ago when the permit fees were last raised. everything went up a little. it had been awhile before that. the only thing about raising the fees is that it may drive away some folks. we're a minority. we need all the allies we can get. if even a few folks quit hunting, at least big game, we're losing guys on our side. i know one way of looking at it is that it will make less competition for the tags for the rest of us. but it could also make less folks on our side. i like to see folks hunt. anyone. some guys need to have their licenses revoked and stuff, but those guys are few and far between. kids just starting hunting, folks on tight budgets, etc., we need em all to like to hunt and to have the opportunity to hunt. it's a good thing. it's good for people to get out and breathe some clean air and have some fun in the wild stuff. just hope the g&f doesn't ask for a huge increase right off. also, i think there is some rule that says nonresident permits can only be so many times as expensive as resident permits. that is probably part of the increase, so they can really jack up the nonresident permits. but i don't see this hurting taulman's business, but in fact may help him. he makes a fortune by using the capital given to him by the hunter pool. this will just give him more capital, because his clients are gonna hafta fork over more upfront money. only way to win is with legislation. i hate to see the feds get involved in state business, but maybe that's the only way here. Lark.

Amanda is right. i was raised on the edge of the san carlos rez and when i was a kid there were few limitations as to where a white guy could go or what he could do. i don't think there is a section (square mile) on the rez i haven't been in. good bucks in all of em. coues and muleys. i've shot lions, bears, turkeys, javelinas, bobcats and a truck load o' coyotes and caught several boat loads o' fish on the rez, too. but the apaches are real stingy with "D" for some reason. might be some left over feelings from the "mineral strip" fiasco. but there oughta be some slug coues in there. it is rough, thick, steep country. i'm thinking there oughta be some huge elk there too. they've had elk there since they were introduced into Az., with little hunting pressure. they might be sorta inbred, but i'm thinkin' there oughta be some big ones. Lark.

good job guys. ya'll need to make sure and take your kids hunting and teach em how, so when you get old they'll pack ya around and drag your buck out for ya. for years i always had a son that needed some instruction and help and always gave them the first shot, like my ol' man did me. now my boys are all growed up and great hunters and i'm spending most of my time packing my ol' man around and giving him the first shot and draggin' his buck back. in a few more years, it'll be my turn to get hauled around by my kids. it's a circle. don't break it. Lark.