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you can't "overgraze" on public land. they won't let ya. if the conditions are bad, you have to remove cows. sometimes all of em. before you guys start shootin' from the "lip", ya need to investigate what the rules are. the usfw, blm and state land dept. patrol the heck outta ranches and watch every little thing that goes on, on em. sometimes a guy will try and sneak some extra cattle onto his land and they usually always get busted. happened big time awhile back by big lake. usfw told the guy they knew he had too many cattle and he sorta laughed at em and said prove it. they brought in a buncha cowboys and rounded the place up. he had nearly twice what his permit allowed. by the time he paid all the fines, paid for the cowboys and did all the work to repair riparian damage and stuff and figuring in the loss on his permit (they cut it to less than half what it was) he was out over a million bucks. same thing happened to real a infamous family in the bowie area. they lost almost all their permit and their cows. one of em even went to prison over the deal. prison. no kiddin'. there is another real high profile deal going on in new mex right now over a similar situation. the only way you can "overgraze" is to break the law, and with all the cops the different agencies have, it's real hard to do and get away with it. on my cousins place, he has the usfw almost every day. at least once a week. a lot of it is because of the wolf deal. but he couldn't do anything without em knowing it. a lot of what has been said here is pure BS because you don't have a clue what the facts are. if the range looks bad, it's because it's a bad year. cattle ain't native animals, but as far as that goes, niether are elk. cattle have had some negative impact on the land. but nothing like some o' you guys have alluded to. they are more regulated and better managed than the wildlife is. the purpose of "multiple use" public land is just that. timber, hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, guiding, bird watching, biking, and yes, cattle, are all part of the plan. and everyone of these groups needs to be more or less united with each other or we'll all lose out. if you want to bash somebody, or a group o' somebodies, at least learn a little about what you're talking about. because most of the stuff that's been spread here looks a lot like what i stepped in this morning while i was feeding. Lark.

ain't no way mace wrote that story. too well punctuated and the paragraphs are in the right places an' all. no way anybuddy frum safferd has that good o' ejucayshun. musta got sumbuddy frum fort thomas or slalomonville to rite it. cool story tho. Lark.

native graffitti is cool stuff. that devil lookin' dude with the horns is pretty creepy. i've only seen one other one like that. wonder what it is? and to alla you jerks sayin' i did it, i did not. we all the modern stuff, like sundials and stuff when i was kid. Lark.

c'mon guys, i was jokin'. i know i'm lovable. mace, slug your ol' man in the gut for me. he always liked that. said it kept him "regular". Lark.

establish a perimeter with claymoores. keep several frag grenades handy. if all else fails, call in a napalm drop. wish i had real good info for ya, but after my last "illegal alien" run in, it's real apparent that they have more rights than we do. i'd pack a pistol and some extra ammo in my pack and not worry about it too much. keep a big mean dog in your camp. after my lecture from the mcso, when they told me they couldn't do anything because i couldn't give em a positive i'd., i told em that next time they would be easy to i.d. because they'd be they guys with bullet holes in their foreheads. this illegal alien deal and hunting is getting to be a real problem. don't know for sure what the answer is. but i do know this, you can dang sure keep a gun in your camp. and any rabbit pig that'd give you a ticket for havin' iron in your pack in illegal alien country oughta be shot hisself. can't remember for sure what the fine is for a concealed weapon without a permit, but it ain't much. ain't like it's a felony or anything. like the saying says, i'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. just be smart, and i'm sure you'll be ok. might get a buddy with no tag to hang around camp too. no sense in "chummin'" em in with your camp.

it's still just a midget deer tho. i've shot a buncha mediocre muleys that were all bigger than that dink. heck, the littlest elk i ever shot was bigger than that. and i shot it with a bow. lefthanded. and with one eye closed. Lark.

ok, why do i think this post is directed at me? Lark.

yeah, sorta like how somebody said they saw a condor around williams in the 20's so now we have em at the grand canyon. or how if elk or sheep show up someplace they automatically take precedence over the native animals. i think the azgfd does their surveys either by pickups on paved roads or rumor and hearsay. whichever is more accurate. funny how folks get a name messed up and keep doing it. like when in i was in school, several of the teachers thought my name was "sorry little b@$t@rd". the ones that are still alive still do! Lark.

who are all the bad ranchers? i was raised on a ranch in Az. still have a lotta kin and friends that run cattle. some fairly big spreads too. first off, if it's private land, it's just that, private. if a guy wants to overgraze, lock it, or whatever, it's his perogative. if it's public land, they all have the same rules they have to abide by. they can't lock it, they can't overgraze it, they can't foul the water. every person i know who has a ranch has a real connection with the land. the dirt, the animals, the plants, the water. i have a cousin who literally works his butt off trying to make something of a ranch that will probably never show a profit. he owns a real profitable company that makes up the difference. and everyone who hunts in u27 is better off because of the work he puts in. and he doesn't have a lock on the place. there is better water, the roads are better, etc. etc., because he's there. the difficulty he has with the wolves and other predators isn't even funny. he deals with the state, blm, forest circus, azgfd, usfw and every tree hugger organization there is, every day. puts up with all the rules and regs and bs, just because he likes bein' a cowboy. he hunts whenever he can get a permit. his cabins are always open to whoever wants to use em. he could be a prick. but he ain't. over where i hunt deer, there are now at least 5 times as many deer as when i was a kid. all because the guy that owns the ranch has piped water all over heck. at great expense. seems like the last time i talked to em about it, it was over 60 miles of pipe and a couple dozen tanks, troughs, etc. they had put it. wherever there is feed, now there's water. that ain't always been the case. i'd guess they've spent at least half a million bucks on the water improvement alone. this last fall they rounded up every head on the place, just to give it a rest for a couple years. nobody told em they had to. the blm and state were fine with the range condition. they just did it. i don't know one rancher who locks up anything other than private land. and most will provide easement to anyone wanting to cross to the public land. some won't. and i won't blame em. if it's private land, that says it all. i don't necessarilly like it, but it's their right. when that goofy woman locked up lower aravaipa, i was as vocal as anyone about it. but it was still apparantly her right. just because you see more feed someplace, doesn't mean it was or wasn't because of cattle. stop and look at the benefit that wildlife get from the improvements made for cattle. some ranchers are not nice folks. i really disagree with the large landowners trying to get free permits. but joe cowboy tryin' to make living because that's what he likes is a pretty good feller. and when all the grazing permits are gone, and mark my words on this one, you'll eventually regret it. Lark.

little Mace, great buck. one of the rumors that i heard was that some of pearson's texas whitetail pets got loose and bred with coues and that yours was one of the offspring. typical jealous bs that starts whenever somebody gets a big one. couple years ago a friend o' my oldest son got a 120+ 3x3 and i posted some photos of just the head and everyone immediately said he was a crossbreed mule deer. he wasn't. just a big buck. anyway, the field photos that is saw were of a great big coues. great buck and great job. you need to tell us a little more about the hunt. had you seen him before? tell your ol' man howdy for me. Lark.

the multiple lion permit units is one of the few things i agree with. we could do with a lot less big cats and be just fine biology wise. and i have no problem with trying to protect desert sheep. some of the areas chosen for transplant are sorta suspect. and anytime they transplant them, they take priority over anything else in the area. but i still think we oughta have desert sheep. but these stupid retarded mt sheep have no reason to be in Az. and especially no reason to be in the desert. i think they oughta shoot all of em that are more than like 15 miles below the mogollon rim. but when mt sheep or elk show up someplace, they take priority and they let the deer and other native wildlife go to heck in a handbasket. Lark.

surprises me that they gutted him. i'da figgerd they'da went straight for the nuts. Lark.

where can i get some o' them funnybooks? i wanna give some out as xmas presents. everbody already knows i'm a crazed killer. look at that load o' elk in my truck. i'm more of an assassin tho. Lark.

bullwidgeon, you're just afraid that one o' them pig hunters will shoot ya, mistakin' ya for a stink pig, while you're crawlin'around all gollum like after a midget buck. bwahahahahaha....... they already adjusted the coatie mundy season to keep ya from gettin' blasted. i see they have a huntable bunch of them retarded mt sheep in 23 and 24 now. that oughta make alla you deer hunters happy. they'll manage the whole unit so's they'll be able to let out 1 or 2 sheep tags a year and let the deer go to heck, like they have ever other place them stinkin' things have got started. all you 23 and 24 hunters mark this down, and in 5 or 10 years remember what i just said. what i just said will happen. i can't wait until they migrate into aravaipa and breed with the desert sheep and pollute the whole herd and they have some bastard buncha sheep breed that b&c won't recognize as a species. oh well, sci will make a category for em. i'll make another prediction, the elk will also infect these 2 units soon, even moreso than they already have, and that'll also reduce your deer herd. good ol' azgfd, always lookin' out for the best interests of nonresidents, bird watchers, tree huggers, wolf lovers, non-native species and the best places for spray on tans for the director. Lark.

hey casey, a guy i work with has this for sale. wondered if you were interested? family reunion is comin' up soon. Lark. BANJO banjo, 4-string w/mute and hard case. 100.00 480-xxx-6740 Ad submitted: 11/17/2005

just sent off for a leftover pig tag. i was wonderin' if bullwidgeon would be willin' to come along and be the decoy? ya need to bathe tho. them pigs'll only put up with so much smell. Lark.

dang, that's a big buck. Lark.

Amanda, like a told ya in the PM, i don't care for 50mm scopes. too big and bulky and the center is farther from the bore. this does affect accuracy. and i prefer dot reticles. 50 mm scopes might give you another 5 minutes per day of light. but when it's dark, it's dark. doesn't matter how big your scope is. but that's my opinion. and like i keep tellin' alla ya'lls, i know everthing. Lark.

goofballs? bullwidgeon calls me a goofball? the guy that duck hunts on the thatcher turd pond and eats the ducks? dang, that's a little critical there dude. not one of em was a result of road bombin'. had to punk 2 out with with quads. one was a real pain. it's pretty amazing what these new big quads will do. we were in u1. camped a little south o' pat knoll. got one the 2nd day. one the 3rd day. one the fifth day and one the last day. we had 6 bulls run through camp the first day. 6 that we saw. it was a fun hunt. sorta cold. between 0 and 10 every morning. a jacket and long johns felt purty good. we had a good warm camp tho. a little chilly for them midnight bladder calls. and drier than heck. dusty. my dang truck is still like bein' inside o' sand screener. squeeky brakes. dang. oh well, i didn't see anybody else with 4 6 points. the real wide one was 55". he woulda been even wider if he hadn't busted a pedicle on the right side. biggest one scores in the 330 range. we just shot little ones and let all the big ones go, for seed, like bret said. he's just jealous because he has to shoot spikes on the early hunt. my boy took a pal hunting in 27 and got a real nice 6x7 on the third day. we also took another guy in october and he got a good 6x7. get this, my son and his pal got the bull about 6 miles from the truck. shot it at 0830. first load my boy packed all the gear, the 2 filets and a hind leg. the hunter packed the head, antlers and cape. they went back with backpacks and packed out the rest in one more trip and then drove home. so, 24 miles in one day, 12 of it with up to 150 lbs on their backs. dang, i don't think ever was that tough. anyway, it was a good season for elk. i'm glad somebody noticed the piss on uso sticker in my back window. time to go shoot a lion and some coyotes now. Lark.

heck yeah, that's my truck. Lark.

get em a .243. great cartridge. shoots hard, soft recoil. when you're shooting a .22 cal centerfire with heavier bullets, like the 65 and 70 grain, remember that a lot of them don't have a fast enough twist to stabilize the long bullet. a .243 with 85 or 100 grain bullets will do in any deer in Az. load up 60's or 75's and have a great coyote gun too. Lark.

the gas i pumped into my truck last month wasn't for scouting. that was for huntin'. just got back from 26 days in the mountains. and had a great time and it was a bargain at twice the price. how much has the price of a house gone up in the past few years? or a pickup or gas or anything else? and how much has hunting permits gone up in comparison? i don't know the exact percentage, but not near what everything else has increased. the proposed increase is not near the rate that other commmodities have gone up in recent years. i wouldn't mind it at all, if the stinkin' azgfd would do something with it. look at the mule deer herd. it's about to bottom out. look at the lion and coyote population. all time highs. but what does the the azgfd do about it? let out more permits than there are bucks, by their own calculations, in a lot of units. and try to prosecute every good lion hunter there is for some thing or another. legislate any kind of predator hunting out of existence. the proposed increase would be fine with me, if they would just do what their own bioligists tell them to do. Lark.

if you add it all up, permit fees are pretty small when you compare the cost of the rest of the hunt. i just pumped over a grand in gas into my pickup the past month. all for hunting. any increase is a pain to deal with. especially when ya have kids wanting to hunt. it can get real expensive. but it's sorta like they say about how come divorces are so expensive, they're worth it. start a permit fund. put a little aside and when the time comes apply for everthing. i'm the worst critic the azgfd has. they're the most poorly managed and most politically motivated entity of this state. conservation and biology means absolutely nothing to em. $$$ is what gets there attention. but it's their ball and if we wanna play we gotta put up with em. that is until we can get a new governor a new director and a completely new commission that consists of something other than cronies. compared to other states, the prices seem real close. heck, new mex wants $750 for elk tags in units i wouldn't hunt in. Az. has some great hunting, but not a lot of great hunting country. lotsa folks want to hunt what little stuff we have. if the high prices weed out some nonresidents, fine. you can blame this whole mess on 2 people, taulman and shroufe. taulman for bein' a greedy sob and shroufe for spendin' more time on his sprayed on tan than he does dealing with azgfd problems. but i sure hate to hear residents say they can't afford to take their kids hunting. don't like that a bit. kids need to know what it's like to hear a rifle crack across a canyon and smell the gunsmoke when they open the bolt. do what have to do, but take them kids huntin'. Lark.

these here are my kinda guys. i especially like the way the talk. unlegal, that's the first time i ever heard that one. who can dislike "hicks and mountain men"? i lived with a bear for awhile, until she got tired o' the smell and found her own cave. Lark. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1101petbear01-ON.html

if you don't take your kids hunting, why bother going? i guess some guys are too hung up on egos and stuff to let a kid tag along. get em outta town. show em nature. teach em how friendly a campfire is. it's pretty nerve wracking to let your kids take the first shot, and the second and third. but there's no reward quite like watching your kid get their first whatever. now i'm back to takin' my ol' man and trying to make sure he gets a buck every year. but that's ok. i can remember him watching me blow holes in the sky, while he tried to find me another one to shoot at. when i'm a geezer my boys can tote me around. Lark.