.270

.22's are handgun ammo. a .308, .223, '06, etc. are "assault" gun ammo. it's just a matter of time. our governor is bound and determined to leave his mark on Az. before he leaves. remember some years back when you had to register pistol ammo? did it for years. seems like Reagan repealed it. one of the presidents. heck, it was more than a week ago. anyway, after they had done it for over 20 years, nationwide, not one case was ever solved because of it. not one dang case. after the billions that were spent managing it. not one case. this is about getting into your house and making everyone a criminal and having control. spit out the koolaid if you're drinkin' it boys. this ain't good. Lark.

hey, i've been tellin' everbody that will listen forever, to not drink the koolaid. endangered species legislation is more about getting people off of the land than it is about helping endangered animals. the last thing these huggers want is for an endangered animal to get unendangered, because then they lose their control. it's a shell game. and anyone who isn't watching this real close had better start and real soon. and anyone who is in favor of any of this crap is not the friend of outdoorsmen. fixing any "endangered" species usually takes minimal changes in how outdoorsmen do things. we ain't the problem. it's the years of other crap that is. you change things to how they should be and monitor things and let real live biologists do their thing and things get better. but all this hugger crap wants everything to change drastically and wants everything to be something much more critical than it is, so they have control. and they flat out lie, distort, fabricate, hide, change, etc. anything that doesn't fit their real plan. now they have hidden stuff in this plan that is their only to limit freedom. watch out fellers. ya can't let up on this stuff. Lark.

man, this is gonna be more fun to watch than wallace and ladmo reruns. remember one thing, the big picture. Lark.

all a 25/06 is, is a .270's dorky little brother. Lark.

what a deal. i'm sure it will really help the california condors thrive. guess a guy better buy all the bullets he thinks he'll ever need, now. Lark.

refer to rule #1. Lark.

here's your quote. make up your mind. Lark, To shoot a 125 in an '06 I would probably go to a 1in12" twist. Most of them are going to be 1in10" as a standard. Lighter bullets need to spin more; longer, heavier bullets stabilize better and need less spin. Lark.

it ain't bad on menudo either. Lark.

@$#%?!!!, Lark.

they are peccary, real close relatives of pigs. they only have one dew claw on i think the hind leg, instead of 2 (i'll hafta make bullwidgeon pull off his shoes next time i see him) and they have a muskbag, which true swine don't have. they are not in hardly anyway, other than they are mammals, related to rodents, and anyone who says they are is fulla bs. awhile back i heard bob hirsch say they were rodents on his radio show. always thought he had more smarts than that. i saw em call em rodents on the allen warren hunting show. didn't surprise me none, seein' as he is an idiot anyway. i've heard a buncha folks say that too, but it ain't so. i think it all comes from the fact that they have big canine teeth that self sharpen. rodent's big teeth are in the front, like ol' bucky beaver, and they continually gnaw on stuff and it keeps em wore down. and they have paws, not hooves. and they don't have a flat, prehensile nose, like a pig. the word javelina comes from the word jabali, which is spanish, for wild pig. (in spanish you usually pronounce the letter "B" like a "V", sorta.) when the spanish came here from europe and first saw the peccary, they started callin' em jabalina, or little wild pig. it doesn't mean "javelin" like i've heard a lotta folks say. javelinas are neat little critter. with their poor eyesight, small size, inability to handle real cold weather or deep snow, it's amazing to me that they can thrive like they do in some real inhospitable terrain. they hafta be one tough little critter. Lark.

heck, did better than that, i went to drop of some app's for a couple guys today and asked em if they drew yet and they started hollerin' at me so i started hollerin' back and told the guy his mamma wore combat boots and drove a pickle truck to pay of his gramma's gamblin' debts and that his wife was his first cousin and a buncha nasty stuff and dang he got mad. then he axed my name and i stood right up real tall and hollerd, "GAINES!" "K GAINES"!!!! Lark.

so the '06 bullet question don't get fogged up anymore than it already is. this is the Greenhill Formula, used to determine barrel twist rate. snagged it offa sniper website. this also a reason a guy need to stick with one bullet weight in a given gun. unless you shoot a .270, 1 in 10" is fine for everything. in .30 cal, .308, there is almost a 2:1 difference in barrel twist from the lightest to the heaviest bullets. you can't hardly shoot big and little bullets out of the same barrel and get any kind of accuracy. that's why a guy should stay around the middle in bullet weights on most .30 cal, because the barrel is probly twisted to stabilize the middle weight bullets. if you're gonna shoot great big or little bitty bullets out of most rifles, you're gonna hafta get a custom barrel and just shoot one weight. this formula works well for all calibers, but the .308 diameter is what is entered here. Lark. Gunsmiths generally use the Greenhill Formula to determine the optimal twist for a given bullet. The formula is T=150(d/r) for velocities from about 1500 to 2800 fps. Substitute 180 for the 150 value for velocities exceeding 2800 fps. "T" is the twist rate. "d" is the bullet diameter. "r" is the bullet length to diameter ratio (length of bullet divided by diameter). In .308, it works out fairly well. Sierra 168 grain Matchking is 0.308 inches in diameter. Bullet length is about 1.210 inches so we have a length to diameter ratio of 3.929. Plugging this value into the formula and using the 150 constant (the proven best velocity for the 168 grain MK is 2550 - 2600 fps), we get T=150 x (.308/3.929); T=150 x 0.078; T=11.76 inches or 11 3/4 inch twist …. One rotation of the bullet for every 11.76 inches of barrel traveled.

here is a real handy table to use for barrel twist. if you'll look closely, heavier bullets usually require faster twists than lighter bullets. they never require slower twists. unless these guys are wrong too. also, if you note, the .270 just needs one twist rate, 10", for all bullets. just one more reason, i mean other than my dad says so, that it is the greatest round ever. Lark. http://www.varminthunters.com/tech/barreltwist.html

see, even bill knows i'm right, so i must be right. wait, refer to rule #1. i'm always right. i thought i was wrong once, but found out later that i was right. 7mm/08's are ok, for girls, i guess. to me, ownin' one would be sorta like how sometimes you have a relative that you wish you didn't have and you don't want folks to know that you're actually related to the guy and if you're ever with em you hope nobody you know sees ya. i mean some guys, like me, like horsepower, speed, good looks, classy lines, like a corvette or a .270 and some guys like, well, miatas. Lark.

i'm like the best shot in the world man. even with out my .270. Lark.

hooked on coues, you need to read up on things a little. as a general rule, longer bullets require a faster twist, not slower. shorter bullets usually are more accurate with a slower twist. some calibers will shoot about anything well with one particualr twist. others won't. there are some variables, the bullet diameter, length, weight, BC, etc, all comes into play for optimum twist. but generally, and there are some guys here who can back this up, in a given caliber, longer bullets require faster twists than shorter bullets. don't know where or how you got your info, but it ain't right and if you go buying a slow twist barrel to shoot long bullets with, you're probably gonna sad about it. and .270's are the best. it's just a law of nature. Lark.

alright, another place to buy stuff and it's close to work. http://www.azcentral.com/community/gilbert...ggoods0209.html

"vegitarian is an old indian word for crappy hunter". Lark.

reminds me of the story about the kid that was raised by javelinas. but we all know the "ballad of bullwidgeon", so i won't go into here. Lark.

i looked, they ain't up yet. i'll look again tomorrow. i hate waitin'. Lark.

years ago remington came out with a round called the .244, to compete with the really successfull .243 win. well, they had the twist too "slow" to stabilize a 100 gr bullet well. shot smaller bullets great. wouldn't shoot 100's for nothin'. so after some real poor sales, they "sped" up the twist so it would stabilize the longer bullet and renamed the same cartidge the 6mm. (sorry, i don't recall off hand what the rates were, but i can dang sure find em if i need to). i might be a little wrong on this one, but they also made a .280, and then renamed it the 7mm express, and then went back to the .280, and i believe that was all about speeding up the twist and tinkering with the powder charge so it would shoot bigger bullets. and then going back to .280 because it didn't shoot big bullets fast enough for it to work well. sorta like turnin' it into a 7mm/08. go by an old 6.5x55 swedish mauser. fine rifle, excellent action. then try to shoot some say 100 gr, or 120gr bullets. the won't hit well at all, because the twist is real quick and is set up to shoot 165 gr military ammo. i have an old .250/300. shoots like an sob with 75's, 85's and 100's. 117's and 125's will keyhole, because the twist is too slow. sierra makes 75 gr .22 caliber bullets. says right on the box to use a fast twist, like in a m-16, because the slower twist popular in civilian rifles won't stabilize them. you say a 1 in 12 is faster? ok, here's a formula for you to use. you 24 have inches of lands. with a 1 in 12 the bullet will spin 2 times in that distance. with a 1 in 10 the bullet will spin 2.4 times in the same distance. 1 in 10 is faster. anyway, i've done entirely too much math and reccolection for one day and now my head hurts. Lark.

bullet diameter and weight does not make up for poor hits. (unless it's a 7mm/08) i have an old remington mohawk 600 .243 that has killed more deer than mountain lions. with my kids shootin' it. 100 gr hornadys work real well. i've never seen a well placed shot with "any" center fire that resulted in a lost deer. some may go a little farther than others, but they never go very far and they spray enough blood out they ain't hard to find. deer ain't that big. even big old muleys. it's real simple, if you hit one in the lungs, they die. any centerfire hits harder and does more damage than any arrow. and a bow is real deadly, if you hit em right. here are the rules, just so you guys don't get confused: rule #1: the .270 is the best round ever and 7mm/08's stink. rule #2: in all other cases, refer to rule #1. Lark.

ok, here is your math lesson for the day, 1 in 10" is a faster twist than 1 in 12". dang kids. Lark.

casey, get back to them banjo lessons. from what the best o' the west boys put on the tv, they look like they work ok. from what i've seen, they sorta know what they're doin'. they also make 2 different vld's. one for targets and one for big game. me and the 'ghost are gonna load up a buncha .264's this week and tune in his sendero. got a javelina and a gigantic, wooly mammoth sized roosian boar hunt comin' up. that oughta tell us somethin'. see if they'll shoot through that plywood rib protector them boars have. i'll have my .270 for backup. Lark.

i love threads like this. so is a ford or a chevy better? so why won't a 125 gr bullet kill a muley? i killed one with a 100 gr this year. he seemd to die purty dead. coues deer are about the size a hefty labrador retriever. really. any well made .308 caliber bullet will zip right through one. eleanor o'connot shot an elephant with an '06. she was using 220 gr solids, but any gun that will kill an elephant oughta be ok for coues, in any caliber. i use 165's exclusively in any .30 cal. just because it works well in '06 and .300 mag and i don't have to keep a buncha different bullets around. but a 125 is ok. they make 100 gr .308 diameter bullets. and as far as barrel twist, you would probably need a little slower twist, not faster, for the shorter bullet be optimal. just a little bit too. most of the time you speed up the twist for longer bullets, in a given caliber. but any '06 should be able to shoot about bullet you want, with decent accuracy. i like big bullets in big calibers and little bullets in little calibers and in between bullets in in between calibers. or you can forget all this whole debate and just get a .270. because they are far superior to all them other goofy calibers. Lark.