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van hale and jeff lester do a lot of guiding in 27. there is a guy named frank allison that guides there a lot too. there are a couple guys from safford, seems like DC outfitters, that do also. uso used to, but i don't know if they are there much anymore. but i wouldn't suggest to anyone to work for them rats anyway. there are several other decent outfits. get on the web and research it. also, you might be able to get the outfitter to pay for your license. i'd get me a solid hook on one before i spent the money for a license. it ain't a hard test. i mean i passed it. there's a lot of work you can do for an outfitter that doesn't require a license. but if you're taking guys huntin', you need one. Lark.

forget all that. who were the morons who shot illegal javelinas? heck, i won't shoot a legal one. shoot a javelina and then haul it around? man, them fellers need counselling. the guy shot a turkey because he was under stress? well, i know what kinda 'scuse i'm gonna use if i don't get a sheep tag this year...........Lark.

scientist say that 13,000 years ago the north polar cap was 16,000 feet thick, in the northern half of what is now the lower 48. something warmed up for sure. and it was a long time before al gore thought of it. it's apparant the earth is a little warmer than it has been at times in the past. what i don't buy is that it is human caused or anything that any kind of legislation will change. it's just the dam weather. i just love tweekin' the noses of folks that insist we're all gonna turn to jerky unless we put a big tax on ourselves, with stuff like this. record snowfall, record cold weather, but we're all gonna dry up and blow away. unless we spend a buncha money that goes straight into guys pockets, like al gore. just trying to get these kids that are used to havin' some birkenstock wearin' teacher do their thinkin' for em, to read a little and have an informed opinion and see what the truth really is. Lark.

hey wetmule, you gotta remember one thing, half-assed is an improvement for the azgfd. they'd love to be, well, like a mule, half assed. Lark.

'scuse me, i messed up a little there. i'll sell ya an 8 day camel. have faith fellers. i don't see 51% of America being totally stupid. his only chance is the same as clinton's was. if a 3rd party candidate runs and takes a buncha votes from mccain, it could be rough. i don't see this paper thin, transparent, phony being able to hold up much scrutiny. even with the media on his side. Lark.

he's dang sure as much coues as that stinkin' muley from new mex that they had as the world record NT for a couple years. Lark.

i find it a little ironic that "conservation" groups want to let the elk starve. they've been doing this for about 100 years and there haven't been any real problems. must be the same guys who wanted em kill that little polar bear cub a couple years ago. Lark. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/ELK...mp;SECTION=HOME

they've had far more problems with online app's than they have had with paper. several years ago they had to give out quite a few extra bighorn and i think some pronghorn and elk tags, because of a screw up with the computer outfit they were using in nevada. then they went to the hillbillies in tennessee for a couple years and it turned into a literal fiasco. i don't think they do the paper to be inconvenient. i think it's because of all the problems they've had with the online stuff. and it makes it real easy for uso and cabelas to apply a jillion or so folks for every hunt. look what happend with the cabelas app's this past winter. i for one, think that was a good thing. and it wouldn't have happened if they were able to apply online. there are a lot of folks who got tags that would have went to cabelas clients, that wouldn't have if that truck load of app's woulda made it on time. Lark.

a lot of states have a mandatory survey. no fine involved, but if you don't send it in, you can't apply the next year. Az. is real easy compared to a lot of states with a lot of their rules. but i don't see a lot of benefit from them either. heck, i had to make a 20 minute phone call in colorado to validate a dang small game permit so i could shoot some prarie dogs. you buy a license, then you have to make a phone call and with the keys, tell them what you are planning on hunting and where. if you don't, the license ain't valid. talk about some big brother BS. if Az. actually used the survey data, i'd have no problem with it. what i do have a problem with is spending a buncha money on a program that is ignored. somebody said something about the archery guys getting singled out. in my opnion, they needed to that years ago. too many guys getting a deer with a bow and then going rifle hunting. it was next to impossible to enforce the rules they had. Lark.

Amanda, i shoulda added a little to my rant. i have no problem with the survey or making it a requirement. i belive the original intent was a good thing. i do have a problem with what i percieve as the azgfd doing nothing productive with the data. the u22n example i used is a real thing. it happened. they drastically increased permits with absolutely no data to support it. the absolute refusal of the azgfd to use the data that it spends a fortune collecting is a real sore spot. the survey is just one little part. over the years the azgfd has spent a lot of money to collect info on different things and then let politics dictate what they do, instead of real live science. they let the lions kill the strip deer herd, when they had their own bioligists begging them to do something about it. they've let the elk herd explode into areas they shouldn't be in. they're letting the desert bighorns dissapear in some areas, right now, because they're afraid to do the right thing and kill some lions. it's an endless list that gets bigger every year. politics and accountants are making decisions that science needs to make. they're trying to legislate nature. or let some accountant with short sighted plans squeeze a few more nickels out of it. but once again, if the azgfd refuses to use data that they spend money collecting, then they need to just quit collecting the data and use the funds on something that might make things better. Lark.

here is one article on the 31,000 scientists who say human caused global warming is BS. read it and weep koolaid drinkers. what is real interesting, is not one newspaper carried the story. so much for thinkin' that there ain't a liberal agenda in the papers. so, what do all you globabl warming pansies say about this? there all kindsa articles on the net about it. read a little. enlighten yourselves. don't let a dumbass liar like al gore do your thinkin' for ya. Lark. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/?pageId=64734

i just wanna know where that 16,000 feet o' ice went. oh yeah, and what they did with jimmy hoffa. Lark.

azgfd has been overtookened by huggers. if you don't mind, send me the email. i'd like to see it. sounds like mr. napalitano his thumbprint on this one. Lark.

don't know if you fellers recall, but there was a bunnypig that useta surf around this sight for awhile a couple years back, and i asked him how they did it. used the u22n unit as an example. this happened to be the first year that they went to the earlier draw for elk and pronghorn. the literature was avaiable within a couple weeks after the last late bull hunt in u22n, the survey cards hadn't even been sent out yet, much less had the data collected, but the azgfd somehow found it justified to double the permits on one hunt and nearly double them on the next hunt. they hadn't done any ariel suverys, had no data collected from the survey cards, nothing, but they increased the permits on the 2 hunts by several hundred tags. i hunted that unit that year with my cousin and noticed a really big buncha uso guides and clients in the area and they had a really big camp set up on the east verde.. anyway, you know me, i tweeked the guys nose a little by implying that the azgfd increased the heck outta the permits in order to get more nonres tags in the unit. now i kinda doubt that boy george has much input into how tags are allocated here, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the bean counters at the azgfd weren't thinking what i was thinking. anyway, the guy never answered me and i never saw him around here anymore. can't remember his name. but this is one of the things that really bugs me about the azgfd. they seem to want to increase the heck outta the tags that cost a lot. in other words, any nores tag and all the resident tags, except deer and turkey. anyway, i'm sorta with desertbull here. i don't see the use of the surveys when it is real plain that they don't use the data. why waste the money on the program, if they aren't going to do real research with it? it's got to be a fairly substantial sum to fund it. shroufe turned the azgfd into an accounting firm that is only interested in the bottom line. the elk herd is basically livestock. let them propogate to the point that they do real damage to the other wildlife and flora. (and they have) as long as they can sell a lotta permits. it was kinda cool for about a decade. big bulls everywhere and lots of em. now they've even hurt the elk herd. bull/cow ratios are way off. the herd is nothing like it was a few years ago. the elk have expanded into non traditional land and really hurt deer herds in those areas. we still get some big bulls each year, but no more than any other state. seems like utah shoots a lot more big bulls than we do. but they also sell a lot of their best tags to the highest bidder. i don't know the answer, but i do know that the survey ain't the answer. and i do know that ignoring data ain't the answer. Lark.

one o' my best pals had his fixed last winter. he said when he woke up from surgery he was so much better than before that he couldn't believe it. he's up to walking a couple miles a day and getting around quite well now. he's working quite a bit and doing fine. his only advise was that if you need back surgery, get it done. said it made such a difference he couldn't believe it and everyday he's better. Lark.

me niether. ever one i ever killed wasn't bein' pertected by nothin'. that i seen anyway. if they were, they didn't do a very good job. Lark.

depends on the season. deer: guttin' a deer. elk: guttin' a elk. javelina: in camp still asleep. Lark.

what do you mean you can't kill em? i've never seen a snake a 12 guage wouldn't decapitate. i hate rattle snakes. be with somebody that gets bit by one and you'll have the same attitude. Lark.

well, there ya go. now the global warmin' groupies are callin' this an attempt to legislate the weather, when it aint', and when that's what gore and the rest o' the koolaid kids are trying to do. this is 31,000 degreed scientists. folks who have real and credible educations in sciences that ar directly linked to "global" warming. not "ecologists". and if you koolaid kids would read this instead of just shoving it aside, you'd see that they agree that the earth is in a warming state. nothing like gore and his pals want you to believe, but it has warmed up a bit. what they are saying is that it is not human caused, but rather, nature at work. do you koolaid drinkers even know what the kyoto accord was? here it is in a nutshell. the U.S., great britain, germany, france and a few other countries have to tax theirselves to death to drop emissions so that china, india, all of of africa, mexico, pakistan, etc. can keep pumping smoke, sewage, trash, etc. into the environment. and we also had to give the backward polluter countries a buncha money to help em get better. the U.S's pollution compared to china or india is like comparing a toy electric car to a coal fired power plant with no emission protection. nobody is cleaner than us, but everyone wants us to fix it. even when 31,000 scientists say it ain't broke. i watched a deal this weekend about the clovis people and there were several opinions about how they got here and where they went, but the one thing that really hit me was that during the last ice age, the polar caps came down the west coast to about oregon/northern california, spread across the country through montans and northern wyoming, completely covered the great lakes and then drooped down the east coast to about new york, connnecticut, that area. AND THEY WERE OVER 16,000 FEET THICK!!!!!!!!! 16,000 feet kids. none of our big mountains stuck through the ice. and this was about 13,000 years ago. an eye blink in the history of earth. sounds to me like the planet has been warming a little for quite awhile. they also said there had been at least 20 distinct ice ages. pretty interesting stuff. the polar caps might be melting, but nothin' like they have in the past. not even close. Lark.

just a heads up, it tends to piss of the uneducated public when the forest circus and the burro of land management lights of fires in a high wind and they get away and cost the taxpayers a fortune to put out. any idiot would have known better than to light that thing when they did. stick your finger in the air. is the wind blowin'? then don't light the fire. the uneducated public calls that arson. Lark.

my grampa always said that anything wet fallin' outta the sky in Az., was a good thing. enjoy the wet. Lark.

i can't believe not one koolaid drinker has the wayvos to post on this thread. this is some real important stuff. i mean important to point of affecting generations. maybe the most important thing going on right now, in the whole world. i know they called off global warming for 10 years, just last week, and it's snowin' again in the mountains, all over the place, but crap, can't we have some re-butt-all on this? maybe the rumors about liberal media bias apply to liberal thinkers (i.e. wrong thinkers) in general? dangit. now the 4 day weekend is upon us and i gotta go have some fun outside. well, everbuddy have a good holiday and remember, if you must drink, don't drink koolaid. Lark.

just read that the whitmire fire that they lit off in se Az is over 6000 acres without much chance of slowing for awhile. guess it's a grassfire. brushfires can have some good long term effect. grassfires just burn grass. well, guess if i'm ever out of a job, i can always be a clown at the forest circus. i gotta be at least as smart as them jokers. Lark.

if you thinnk i'm gonna not taik ever chanse i git to bash the forrest circcus and the burro of land mangelement, well that's just wrong. Lark.