bonuspointjohn

Ah heck... I have decided to cast one more stone into the fray. After a few glasses of merlot .....what the heck. I guess that some of you are looking to abuse anyone who had anything to do with the bill. First and foremost would be Representative Jerry Weiers. He is scheduled for surgery tomorrow. I know if he were as young and strapping and good looking as AZLance, he would jump out of his bed and be on the legislative floor by sunset. Sadly, Rep Weiers is just a shade younger than I am... which makes him a day behind old fart. We did have discussions with him at a meeting this morning. He has hundreds of e-mails and will in no way be able to respond to any of them. The AZGFD has him sponsoring their omnibus bill and that alone will take time. Along with the surgery, and the re-districting of the whole state he has had to read through a lot of e-mails that seem to infer he was inbred from a black lab with a preference for Austrailian Shepherds... whatever. As for Chris Denham and Floyd Green... They were a large part of the origination of the AZSFW. A careful look at the damning evidence of the tax returns will show that.... Surprise... they earned nothing. Chris has not pursued guiding in forever. Floyd as well has not guided that I know of... except to pursue some unruly lions that seem to make a habit of eating sheep and mule deer. The Outdoorsman does a fair trade with a lot of Phoenix folks and advises on what optics and tripods will work best. The magazine that Chris does have a lot of contributors, none of which are on the Board of directors. I am sure that some of you will connect the dots... and the plot will thicken... but rest assured. HB2072 has died an ignominious death and anyone connected to it will carry a well learned lesson. Oh crud... I am late for dance lessons...BPJ

We agreed w/ Representative Weiers that sportsmen do not want any part of the bill, just attempting to clean up some inaccuracies, but that seems to be pointless. The AZSFW has done some good things.....but most of the comments refuse to even acknowledge that. Best of luck to all.

I simply pointed out that the AZSFW was the source for the bill which generated $3.5 million dollars from the general fund when times were good. At that time the commission of McLean and Golightly fought that move every inch of the way. There was no sale of animals, please re-read the posts for clarification.

I was speaking about the legislation that we helped pass 2 years ago where we have the commission appointment review board. Prior to 1986, the Arizona Wildlife Federation submitted the names to the Governor. Then Governor Babbitt decided he wanted to name whoever he wanted. From that point on it was in control of the sitting governor. When Governor Nappy took over, we had the appointments of Jennifer Martin, Bill McLean, Bob Hernbrode, Robbie Woodhouse and Norm Freeman. The marching orders to the department from that group took a decidedly "green" approach. That simple piece of legislation, that the AZSFW ran with, guaranteed that whoever the governor appoints in the future will be with the blessing of a combined group of sportsmen who are on the review board. That group is required to give the governor no less than 2 names and no more I think than 5 names. Without that creative piece of legislation, whoever the governor will be in the future could name whoever they wanted, with whatever agenda they wanted. BPJ

I truly believe AZSFW will no longer exist after this....Which to me is sad in many regards. I believe very strongly that we need political advocacy for wildlife and hunting related issues. And AZSFW was filling that need. Granted, this bill was a misguided effort and created a huge problem, but the need for an overarching organization fighting for sportsmens issues in AZ still remains. Any of you want to quit your jobs and volunteer full time to lobby on our behalf? Oh Amanda..... I suspect that absolutely none of the readers know what a "good" lobbyist costs these days. I have been to the legislature many times and had a few beers with some of the lobbyists. Generally to "carry" a bill through the legislature, get it passed and babysit the dang thing requires a $200,000.00 tab. I know a blue ribbon Coalition that paid a bunch of $$ a few years back...There will be a void if Suzanne and the AZSFW pack it in. Some will cheer that fact today, but will rue the day later. The clear winners in this are the CBD, The Sierra Club and Defenders of Wildlife. While the presentation of the bill was fatally flawed, I believe that there was merit to it given proper oversight. That oversight was to have been the AZSFWC... of which there were 18 member groups...But hunters have spoken and we will listen to their voices.

Beg to disagree Nick... the $3.5 million is more than most have done through a lot of years of banquets. The passing of the legislation that has a review committee for recommendations for Commissioner will be huge when we have a "D" as governor. Certainly the other groups have done a lot in their existence and I am not denigrating that... but what Legislation has the YVRGC initiated, worked and passed through the legislature? Without Suzanne's help?...If I am ignorant and your group has done something like that I would like to know...Good buck by the way...BPJ

I was a participant this morning in a meeting with Representative Jerry Weiers. The group apologized for the problems that we had caused him, particularly in light of the fairly crude and vicious e-mails he has received. We all agreed that the voice of the hunting community has been heard and that any further work on the bill would simply prolong an ugly process. Representative Weiers has informed the AZGFD as well as the legislature that the bill is permanently pulled. For all of those on this website, it means that there will be no further action and the bill is history. The AZSFW apologized for the pain it has caused all parties and will not be pursued. I suspect that this will not be enough for some, but at the very least this issue is now gone. Thanks for those who participated in a thoughtful and cohesive manner. I enjoyed to some extent learning what people thought and I have to admit I was surprised by some of the venom. The issue was one that brought immediate response, and that is also part of the process. I would hope that for those who have vilified Rep Weiers that you can reconsider any action against his political future. He currently is also the sponsor for the AZGFD Omnibus bill and that speaks volume of the respect that the department and commission have for him. As for those of us who supported the bill, you may of course continue to question our methods and ideology it is every one of your rights to do so. Thanks for all the postings, critiques, suggestions and my new nicknames. Off to my dance lessons...BPJ

yes. They have to follow the guidelines of tag transfers that are currently in place.

Your thoughts?.....

Ok Lark... one more time... I did not design the bill, I knew of the concept as it was stated, I did not drop the bill and I never saw it before January 5th. I have expressed multiple times that the conservation groups who attend the AZSFWC meetings were briefed as was I on the bill. I am not on the board of the AZSFW. I still support the concept of the bill 300 tags for raffle, 50 for auction. I realize that it was not presented to the community as a whole and I will not comment on that but take it to the people who did. I am simply trying to inform and sort out the fiction that some of you were creating. That fiction was 1) The outfitters and guides were in on this... False 2) That there is no emergency... I explained that by having that term applied, it simply meant that if the bill had been approved, it would not have to wait for 90 days after sine die before anyone could get moving on it. 3) That the conservation groups are making millions on it False... all the current money goes to the department and the host group pays all expenses for the privilege of auctioning the tag 4) That no one knew about the bill. False. There were a few commissioners who were briefed on the concept as was I. All the members of the AZSFWC were given the same information. 5) I am trying to respond and have been accused of being numerous things, yet when I interject a little humor I am condescending. I have not labeled anyone a snake, a crooked politician, slimy etc... I apologize if you thought I was being condescending. I was frustrated at the fact that even though I have answered to the best of my abilities, I keep getting the same questions. I will be passing on all the thoughts and attitudes on Tuesday, as will Amanda.

I am not a board member of the AZSFW, but I will be requesting that information at next Tuesday's meeting. The financial records would probably surprise even you Lance...That group has never taken a dime from sportsmen for all the work they have done in 5 years. they are NOT paid, they were required to pay enormous sums of money to get the AZSFW off the ground. I know that other than Capitol Consulting (our lobbyist)no one else takes any money. The board member names will be addressed shortly, but most were correct, except for Nick. Sorry, gotta run to my dance lessons... What about Trent? I could have sworn he resigned as well and moved to another state? I think that is correct. He wa on the board but has taken a new position and is not involved...

Come on Amanda, These guys don't want the facts and the truth. They have more fun ridding us of the guy who has supported our issues. After all, I may dance, but Lance walks on water....

I suppose that anything short of proving that they have all made millions of dollars off sportsmen and that they are all cradle robbing back stabbing carpetbaggers who have stolen all the beautiful women that were rightfully yours will not be believed....so why should they bother?.... just asking. I know, you think I am dancing again....

I am not a board member of the AZSFW, but I will be requesting that information at next Tuesday's meeting. The financial records would probably surprise even you Lance...That group has never taken a dime from sportsmen for all the work they have done in 5 years. they are NOT paid, they were required to pay enormous sums of money to get the AZSFW off the ground. I know that other than Capitol Consulting (our lobbyist)no one else takes any money. The board member names will be addressed shortly, but most were correct, except for Nick. Sorry, gotta run to my dance lessons... Wonder why anyone would pay ENORMOUS sums of money to get the organization launched here? Anyone who has run a business and worked with the political side understands SFW is in it for one thing and that is to break the back of our AZ tag rules. So we need to support some lobbyist who is getting to politicians like Weiers so you can get the job done? Unbelievable and I will donate to whoever runs against Weiers in the primary. Of course you can do anything you like. If you care to review our lobbyists record of bills as well as her accomplishments and Jerry's and still make the same decision then that is your call. The hunters who visit this website will all make up their minds, but I will continue to supports Jerry and hope for the best.

Rep Weiers did remove the bill, but he is scheduled for surgery in a few days. I will ask that he respond, but I would suggest a modicum of respect for him. Trashing me is fine, but Jerry is a really good guy who has guaranteed a lot of good things for sportsmen. I would hope that he could get a measure of respect and let him explain his position on the bill.

I am not a board member of the AZSFW, but I will be requesting that information at next Tuesday's meeting. The financial records would probably surprise even you Lance...That group has never taken a dime from sportsmen for all the work they have done in 5 years. they are NOT paid, they were required to pay enormous sums of money to get the AZSFW off the ground. I know that other than Capitol Consulting (our lobbyist)no one else takes any money. The board member names will be addressed shortly, but most were correct, except for Nick. Sorry, gotta run to my dance lessons...

To AZLance, elkoholic .270 and others. Rep Jerry Weiers is the ONLY legislator who we have been successful working with. As an avid outdoorsman, he tries his best to see the positive aspects of anything that is presented to him. He asks intelligent questions and he viewed the current bill as 300 raffle tags for everyman and 50 auction tags that would pay for access, education, our lobbyist and youth programs. BUT... you have decided to become judge jury and executioners. OK... here is a list of people that have tried unsuccessfully to remove Weiers in the past. Sandy Bahr, Sierra Club, Stephanie Nichols Young, Animal Defense League, Rep Daniel Patterson staunch advocate for the CBD and absolutely against lion removal from the Kofa's. They are absolutely thrilled to get your support and would welcome any donations to remove Weiers. Please bear in mind that if successful, there will not be a single legislator who will touch a hunter/sportsman/wildlife issue. We will certainly show how powerful we are by removing the guy when he made one bad choice (your opinion) and to heck with all the good things that he has done in the past. Yep, sounds like a great idea to me... but heck, what do I know, I'm off dancing with the stars

This is Classic! This also explains why Amanda is pushing the AZSFW propaganda in this topic. She never discloses in this topic that she is a Board Member, but instead Amanda says, "I haven't made up my mind either as I haven't read through the bill in detail." How can you be a board member, and havent read the bill, or have a opinion on the matter? the plot thickens.... Amanda and I are board members of the ADA... NOT the AZSFW... I am also a board member of the AZSFWC...Going back through the chain you will see where I listed the ADA as the group that I represent...

Actually, we do not get better attendance because of the auction tags. If you have ever been to a banquet, the really high cost tags are sold through a phone bidder. Since we are all 501C3 organizations and since no one gets paid as a board member, where do you think the money goes?... The ADA funded the 3Bar study, which showed conclusively and scientifically that predators were wiping out fawns. We helped fund the Kaibab study where deer were captured, studied, and data was gathered in order to better manage the deer across the Kaibab. Our group meets monthly and we try to inform the membership as to what we are doing and why. How many of you are aware that the USFWS is currently meeting in Albuquerque with plans to introduce more Mexican gray wolves across all of AZ and Utah and Colorado? Our board does a lot of good things which will go largely unnoticed. We do it because we care. We have never had millions of dollars and if you doubt that, check with Amanda, she is on our board and gives a lot of her time and energies towards that. The big money guys are not typically at a banquet. Sometimes they donate money to the banquet to help cover the costs. All the money from the tags goes back to the department... every penny. Does this help at all?

Bonus, My questions must have been just sensless so go ahead and just answer the question posed by Lark in the first sentence of this post?? The answer is pretty easy, there are a lot of groups that we thought would not particularly like the bill, such as the Sierra Club, CBD, Defenders etc. All the members of the critter groups were approached and the concept was disclosed, as was the commission. The bill was not "backdoored"... and the "emergency" clause" was so that once the bill was passed it would not have to wait 90 days after sine die before it became law. And yes Lark... those benevolent sportsmen have given thousands of dollars on a donated basis. I am not claiming that I can't find land to hunt on, the ADA has been contacted numerous times by groups from Southern AZ.... and yes, it is a fact that many areas are locked off by private landowners. If you doubt my story, check it out with any WM from Region 5. I am sorry if you do not "Buy" that reason Lark, but it is a fact.

Well, I'm just trying to answer questions and give as many honest answers as I can. When I read some of the creative theories here and how we all make such big money on these conservation groups I feel it should be responded to. I know that several are watching this website today, some are just reading, some are obviously angry. I was a part of all this mess and have been active in a lot of groups for a long time. So if people want to take their shots go ahead. Hunters all have a unique theory, all of them are right and none of them are the same..... except that you all do not like the HB2072 as proposed. We all have a deep passion for wildlife, I have given up on drawing a sheep tag (too old) and will never see the light of one of these auction tags...But it is important for people to learn more, understand what the bill was about and know that guides and outfitters were not behind this. If no one responded to this stuff, then you would all think that we who work on conservation groups are reeling in the cash, trying to cozy up to landowner tags and destroying the rights of "joe hunter"...Whether you choose to believe it or not is your choice, but at least you can vent at me.

Hi Nate; The question of access while not an issue north of Phoenix is huge south of Phoenix. I have maps supplied by the department that show thousands of acres that are public land and not available to sportsmen. The map shows red dots for every locked gate that butts up to public land, and it is truly amazing. I counted well over 200 locked gates all across SE Arizona. The department recognizes this as a severe problem and has thrown tons of money at these landowners for access. Some have granted it for a while and then removed access when the cash ran out. This could be a funding mechanism for a lot of those places on a regular and continued basis. There are some facts that state that AZ has only 17% private land... and that is true, but... thousands of acres are not available to the public... and you pay for them. As solar power becomes more financially viable, more lands will be locked up.

The tags that are currently authorized by the Commission and the legislature are awarded to the conservation groups by the commission. The AZ Big Game Super Raffle is the only one that gets 1 Big Game tag of all the species. That raffle is available to everyone. The AZSFW has no control over the current tags. Landowner tags have been disavowed by all organizations and will continue to be so. The AZSFWC is the non profit arm of the AZSFW and has representation from all the critter groups. Again, no one gets paid except our lobbyist.

All revenue that is generated by the auction tags are paid directly to the AZGFD. All costs for preparing the auction / raffle are paid for by the conservation group that auctions the tag. That is law, and strictly adhered to. If you doubt it, check with the department.

+1 There was an initial expenditure to cover the cost of the lobbyist. That is and always has been the only paid position. Over the years, the AES, ADA, ADSBSS and the AAF have contributed to having Capitol Consulting as their lobbyist. Prior to that, the founding members all kicked in some serious money on behalf of sportsmen... and some continue to do so to this day... NO ONE ELSE GETS PAID....... can't get any clearer than that... Call me Terry.. We are not too far removed to remember the Fiesta Bowl and their "administrative" costs. Different arena same corruption The AZSFW board is strictly volunteers initially, each of the beginning few who started the organization back several years ago were required to pony up some significant cash to be a board member. The only person who does get paid is Capitol Consulting, who acts as our lobbyist at the state legislature. I know of absolutely no lobbyist who would ever do the political infighting that has been necessary to carry the water for us who would do it as low as Suzanne and company have done. Thanks for the reply, John. I have a question regarding the wording in your statement though. You mention; "..... strickly volunteers initially". Is that referring to the fact that 'initially' the beginning few ponied-up money? Or is it indicating that it is 'initially' volunteers, but there could or might be paid positions in the future? Or will it always remain strickly volunteer? Again, I only ask because this seems to be a big bone of contention with SFW in other states, at least in Utah. Lark, your point regarding no outfitter response is very insighful. No doubt that local outfitters would LOVE to have more big money tag holders to guide.... S. Stanly and Lark, i am an outfitter and guide and i want nothing to do with this. Besides guys we get hunters every year no matter what so to say we have a lot to do with it is probably wrong--or at least with me and my crew it is. We literally turn people away each year. Terry is correct. There are no guides or outfitters who had anything to do with creation of or contemplation of this bill.