bonuspointjohn

If you were to post the meeting minutes from the AAF, ADBSS AES and others, you would find the exact same comments... except the AES and ADBSS all contributed more than the ADA did.

Every other species in Utah is absolutely kicking the Arizona figures in the backside... except mule deer. Therefore, the big financial commitment to go after the yotes. They are very proactive there... while in AZ, we have been way too concerned about PR... The numbers of tags that Utah offers now compared to 15 years ago is the exact opposite of AZ... their numbers are going up... while ours are either stagnant or declining...

PBJ, it is called being upfront and honest... you would have been wise to also be upfront and honest about your $100 payoff to Weiers... This is why the faith in the ADA is gone, because of people like you. This will be my last post til Tuesday next week. Gee Lance, I assume from your post that you have never given a contribution to a political candidate...That is the reason for the record. A payoff??? Fairly insulting to anyone who is aware of how campaign contributions work. I have donated to several different candidates, and each year there has been cause to do so. I respect Weiers and all he has done for wildlife in AZ. So I made a contribution to his campaign for the future... Big deal. I was not aware that I was required to post everything I have ever done in my whole life to appease the crowd that only keyboards and is not involved in the process of attempting to work on wildlife. JK

I find it interesting that there are some who are "demanding" a position of the ADA.Lance has specified that he has never been a member...and yet he "demands" a position. Really? The process that any organization should follow is to carefully review their policies as well as their support on a continuing basis. I have invited folks to attend our meeting, but instead it appears that we (ADA) have to state our position first and then you "Might" come to our meeting. For the record, the ADA will not be pulling out of the AZSFWC. That group had no dog in the HB2072 fight and it would not be wise to remove ourselves from that group. There are 13 other groups that have not pulled out and some are waiting to hear more before a determination is made. As far as the AZSFW is concerned, that group has done what I consider to be some good solid work on behalf of sportsmen over the years. Your opinion may be different... that is your right. When the board has had an opportunity to listen to all the people who want to speak, and heard the response from the AZSFW, then and only then should we as a board make a decision. The tactics that have been utilized from the select group on the CWT have been more bullying than anything else. Most of the readers have no idea what work the ADA does. I am responding at a request from Amanda regarding the "demands". Show up on Tuesday. make a point and then see where the ADA goes from there. JK So Bryan Waitman, Can you tell us all, does the ADA still support the AZSFW and their lobbyist? I think it would be helpful to know this before the meeting??

You are correct Red... The tags that are auctioned over the past few years draw virtually the same monies. There are very few buyers out there who really want that Strip tag. The buyers seldom come to the functions and appoint their outfitter or guides to bid. Sometimes they are on the phone, or they have a "limit" that they do not want to go over. I know some of the bidders and the pool is very limited. Most now know that you have to cough up at least close to $200,000 to be in the game. The Commissioners of the past and present have faced some political pressures from a lot of groups to get the tags for their banquet. It is a stimulant to the crowd to hear the numbers reaching closer and closer to that huge number. Again though... All the AZ tags go back to the department in totality. The bidders always know which banquet will be auctioning the tag. It could be auctioned in Springerville and they would bid...BPJ

The Commission has every right to comment, particularly at the legislature. Jerry was promised that the Department would not be "lobbying" through the use of the agencies time, money etc. The department takes it's marching orders from the commission. Larry, you know as well as I do that the legislature is full of huge egos. Representative Harper was a prime example of what can and does go wrong down there. If we have no "hunting" legislators, then the logic of Representative Harper will be the norm... and that should scare everyone. From what I heard, the Commission will continue to do what they do and always have done... work the legislature. The Department however , needs to stay above the fray and do what they are paid to do...unless it specifically involves required testimony from the department professionals (your example from 2 days ago)... BPJ

Why did archery crazy vote against the Omnibus bill?...All the other groups voted for it...just curious...BPJ

They are not prohibited from addressing the legislature. As in prop 109, they were told not to use agency funds time etc. for political comments. As an expert on weaponry Gene should be the one to give expert testimony. Chat later...

I will be there tomorrow morning at 9:00 to comment in opposition to the amendment. I can see no way that the Commission could be prohibited from commenting on any measure that is in the legislature. The Department should not comment and they have been told that in the past by the Commission. It is however the Commissions job to review, suggest, and oppose any legislation that affects the department. BPJ

I think it would be best if you and I had some time to discuss issues prior to the meeting. Amanda has my contact info. I would be willing to talk or meet earlier that day. BPJ

I am breaking my own vow because of the direction that your post has taken Kent. 1) The SFW controls the commission?... nothing could be further from the truth. The Governor has appointed her choices... well before the review board came in. The SFW has no control of the tags that are given to the MDF. That call is by the commission and has been for years. I have no clue what relationship the MDF and Utah SFW have... but it does not involve anything in AZ. The license plate money is controlled by the 18 members of the AZSFWC board. They are representatives from the 18 member organization. 4 of which are on the AZSFW board and the rest from sportsmen's groups. You should really attempt to come to the ADA board meeting. Your conspiracy theories and statements are not even close to being on target. If you wish to do a service to those on this site, come to the meeting and lets have a civil discussion face to face. Regards BPJ...

For what it is worth, I have contacted the board of the AZSFW and given them the insight from the CWT. Some of the board had heard of the less than pleasant terms utilized to describe the bill, the proponents etc. After reading your message, I made a phone call to the AZSFW and asked what the intentions would be in terms of responding. The direct response is that they have listened to a lot of criticism, complaints and suggestions. There will be a statement forthcoming within the next 10 days that will hopefully address all of the comments and questions. In terms of "telling", I have to admit to a certain degree of being a cranky old stubborn individual who has always balked at being told by anyone to do anything. I know that no one feels this issue will go away if sportsmen do not know the truth. I feel that the sportsmen of AZ do deserve to understand the genesis of what happened and that it is the responsibility of those who created it to expound. Sad to say, but because of time limitations, direct and indirect threats to myself and others, this will be my last post. ( yeah, I know, I have taken the bait before). I sincerely hope that the response satisfies most of your questions. Regards as always. BPJ

Hello Lark. "Beating the Drum"?... I have not endorsed any group, I have stated that I did not even know of the Alaska SFW and yet you attempt to paint anyone who differs from your opinion as an elitist rich snob who is raping and pillaging the wildlife of AZ. I will leave it to the readers of the threads to determine what they want to believe. For the record. I have not endorsed or promoted or banged the drum for anyone.

Hi Ryan, When a "list" becomes available to a non profit group, the list is typically in a format that is forwarded to a "mailhouse" to send out whatever information the non profit group is attempting to send. The board never sees the actual list per say. That list is immediately sent to the mailhouse, usually in a spreadsheet basis on disk, where they merge any documents that are being mailed out.The mailhouse is under fairly strict requirements to never release the list to anyone. The group that was responsible for sending out a mailer, then gets a re-cap of how many pieces were mailed and what the postage and prep work costs. I have been involved with a lot of lists, and have never visually seen them. I understand the question and know how boards work. In 20 plus years of being on boards and working banquets and raffles, I have never seen a list....J

Well Lark, that is the beauty of the site. You called me a liar. I would pose the question... When did I lie?...What did I lie about?... nothing. I have the ability to answer questions because I have been involved with a lot of groups. I participate in the monthly AZSFWC meetings as do a lot of other groups. They have chosen to stay away from this site because of the gross misunderstandings that a lot of folks have presented here. I appreciate the fact that you may not like some of the answers but they are the truth. AS long as individuals are attempting to garner information and ask questions I can choose to respond.

Just an update Ryan, not a single penny of auction tags ever stays with the "critter" groups. By legislation, the complete monies for the sale of auction / raffle tags are given to the department.... including any interest that may accrue while the money sits in a bank account during long raffle tag time frames. So, any monies that have been paid to support legislative efforts in the past do not come from auction / raffle tags.

There has never been an instance where the Commission has give the AZSFW any money. Quite the opposite. The funding from the License Plate has benefited wildlife, habitat and youth programs which ultimately means the department benefits. There was a motion by Commissioner Husted to continue working with the AZSFWC, and that new commissioner Kirk Davis has been assigned to work with the AZSFWC as a intermediary, so that open and honest communication will not be misplaced. Former Commissioners have the same right as anyone else to comment. Former commissioners who commented included, Golightly, Woodhouse and McLean. Voting however is only by current Commissioners. The current Commission voted 5-0 to continue working with the AZSFWC.... but with a warning.

Hi ringer, Sorry to burst your bubble, but the current AZ Game & Fish Commission has no one that is on the SFW, no connection to the SFW and yesterday voted 5-0 to continue working with a valued partner, the AZSFWC..... The AZSFW apologized for their actions and pointed out that the two groups are a distinct and separate entity. Because the commission and the department has worked long and fruitfully w/ the AZSFWC, they were inclined to continue the MOU. The patterns that caused the rift however had better not appear again. The AZSFWC was grateful for the support and pledged a candid and open dialogue for the future. Not much more that anyone could ask for. Regards, J

Thank you for the conversation this morning. I appreciate all you have done for the ADA, and I am glad that we had the chance to talk. I will be carrying your message to our board. J

First and foremost, there was never a vote on the issue. There was never a member of the AZSFW at any of our recent meetings. If an item has not been voted on, it will not appear in the minutes. Just curious 40... do you belong to any organizations?... Have you ever worked a banquet?...

The ADA board has met, but only to go over the habitat project proposals. That group was not a majority of the board, only those on the HPC review process. We will be having a meeting in February and I will ask the board at that time if they would choose to comment on a moot issue. The ADA in the past did support the Commission review panel. We have no one on that panel and have not been involved with the process of evaluating the candidates. We knew that Bob Thomas and the current commissioner had their names submitted to the Governor and she made her choice. During the "Nappy" regime, the groups that comprised the bulk of the WCC were not given the names of the candidates. We requested who the candidates were on numerous occasions and were never given the names. Partisan politics was rampant during her time and that is the reason for the current review board. There will be a "D" as governor in the future and if that governor is anything like the past ones, hunters and fisherman will take a back seat to "natural resources".... such as Mexican gray wolves, spotted owls, Black footed ferrets etc. I have read a bunch of postings from Archery Crazy and it amazes me at some of the change in language that he has suddenly found. He is so much more eloquent than in his earlier postings. Hhhmmmmmmmm..By the way, since the review panel has come into existence, the number of candidates has grown dramatically. Probably because they know that it is not a "connected " deal.