308Nut

To all, I shot a nice coues buck in Arizona 12/20/09. Rough gross score 104-105" with a 16-1/2" INSIDE spread (19-1/4" outside). Still looking for pwrguy's buck......Will keep ya posted as to when he connects with his giant. A few pictures are below. A full story and more pictures to follow.

Well I would say you are right. I didnt understand where to measure all of the mass measurments and left one out on each beam. After taping him properly he taped 109-1/8"

Yes it is a 308. Did my handle give that away? J/K. The rifle was put together by a local smith (local for me in Anchorage) and I bedded the stock (McMillan HTG). The scope is a Leupold Mark 4 (the original mil-spec). Badger rings and NightForce 40 MOA base.

I promise after Rex gets his on the ground, I will write an A to Z story with lots of pix. Thanks for the congrats! M

Not a bad way to burn a northern AZ coues tag. Very nice.

End the game's suffering. There isnt a judge in the world that would convict you of such principals if it even becomes an issue in the first place. Good sound principals always trump the letter of the law. IMHO.

You got it. 308Nut is Michael who is an electrician from Anchorage and pwrguy is the electrician from Payson.

Bucks are going ape since Friday where pwrguy and I are at.

Very nice Ron!! Thats what Im talkin about!!! Congrats on a fine specimen. M

+1 Been hearing alot about this eledged RMBH sheep. PIX PLEASE!!

Anybody who know me knows what my "dedicated" medium size big game rifle is. It all about the accuracy.

That is good news. I forgot to ask you if you when we talked this morning if you took any pictures of the buck(s)? See you Thursday.! Where the he!! did this year go?? Seems as only a couple of days ago I was calling AZGFD for the results and here it is agian, time to apply for AK, AZ this month and next AGAIN!

How big is this girl going to grow? I am 34 years old, 6' and 202#. My "go to" rifle is still to this day the 308 winnie. I live in and hunt mostly in AK. it has downed 1800# bull moose, sheep, wolves, caribou, sitka bucks, and bears. Closest shot was a caribou at 25 yards and the farthest was a dall ram at 763 (one shot BTW) and quite a few other critters between 400-650 yards including a 1300# bull moose dropped in his tracks with one pill at 438 yards. How big is she going to grow to need anything bigger to grow into? I agree that the rifle you used wasnt the best choice. I would be left in want also. Sounds like you need a different rifle not caliber. There are 7mm bullets out there that at 708 velocities will deliver over 1700 pounds of energy and over 2000 FPS at the 400 yard mark at sea level and 59 degrees. Add 5000' to the equasion and its nearly 1900 pounds and nearly 2300 FPS at the 400 yard mark. Did I miss how the numbers dont add up at 400 yards? The 243 WSSM has a lot less energy, and more wind drift that the 708 at 400 yards. At a full 1K yards the 708 offers twice the energy and 20" less drift from a 10 MPH wind. The only advantage is that the 243 will be a bit flatter. A mere 11" at 1K flatter. More energy and less drift or slightly flatter? It isnt really about numbers here anyway. It is about practibility. If you want a new toy and the latest and greatest new caliber, then that is one thing. We all go through that from time to time and its fun to play around with new things. However, if you want a rifle she can use for the rest of her life and with proven rounds then a good solid 308 or 708 will be more than enough gun than she will ever need. I agree that 708 type calibers are not new and sexy but they sure are sweet shooting and practical. There is nothing the 243 WSSM can do that the 708 or 308 cant. I used to play the numbers game but always found myself dissapointed when despite paper ballistics showing me that one round was far superior than the other yet due to the recoil, barrel life and accuracy those calibers just didnt add up. There are lots of calibers out there that look impressive. Then there are those that actually work to your advantage. I challenge you to post your question(s) at longrangehunting.com and see what the long range guys think.

Whats not to like about the 708? Mild recoil, good terminal performance etc..... If its flat shooting youre looking for it is pleanty flat enough for the ranges MOST 11 year olds should be shooting. A 243WSSM has more recoil than the 708 and the barrel life will be shorter. If it were my 11 year (and I know it isnt so please take with a grain of salt) I would concider the 308 win, 708 and 243 win in that order. If she was really recoil sensitive than it would be the 243. This is more than enough for AZ deer.

By glassing the shady side of brush. This means the sun in your face but it works. Also in my opinion, when it is cold you will find more game on south facing slopes and when it is warmer you will find more on the north facing slopes. GL! M

Congrats are in order. That is the buck of a lifetime! M

It is rare to find two chronos the same. I have 2 from the same manufacturer and the are 32 FPS apart (at least at the velocities I am working with). I dont know which one is the closest to reality but I use the one I feel is the better as a baseline. Then I fire over one set at 15' and at the same time at 915'. I deduct 32 FPS from the 2nd one, run the results through software and establish the BC. I did that very thing twice this year and made 1st round hits in the X ring at 700 yards with 2 bullets I had never fired prior to the tests. Neither were at their published BC's. If youre chrono is not 100% accurate, your percived BC will be slightly different than the true BC however it will be very close and they will both be close enough that one will absorb the other. For example, if your chrono reads high when the bullet is really slower then you will see a percieved BC lower than the real BC. You think the bullet is dropping faster than it should because the drops tell you one thing yet your chrono tells you another, you adjust your BC to match your calculator and even though the numbers inputed are not perfect they will output scary close results. The only way to test a BC and get it near 100% accurate is doppler radar. This is highly expensive and impractical. Finding an army base that will let you use theirs is impossible. Another technique we use is the drop test. Know the velocity, fire at the top of a very tall target and measure the real drop (NOT ADJUSTED WITH THE SCOPE!!) and do the math that way. In any case, when youre testing the BC, you MUST factor in the temprature, barometric pressure AT LOCATION and humidity. Do not pay any attention to the altidue as youre using raw pressure at location. You would input 0' in any software for the calculations. Hope that helps.

The short answer is no. While it can in some cases work there is more to making a 600 yard shot than knowing the velocity. Youre on the right track but you need to be responsible here. Published BC's are rarely spot on. Even if you know the velocity yet not the true BC then software is pointless. Once you have ALL the factors figured out, THEN and only then will your software help. Another issue is that there are still many other factors such as whether or not the scope is A: level with the rifle and B: the rifle is level when fired. This is just a couple of considerations when contemplating a 600 yard shot on game. The best policy is that you never shoot at game at ranges you have NEVER fired in the real world. If all youre going to shoot is 500-600 yards then one thing you can do is sight in where you want your zero and test it at longer ranges in 100 yard increments and document the adjustments made to hit the mark at those ranges. Make a chart, follow it and be happy. If you want to shoot farther than that then you need to use a chrono, find your true BC, factor in air density using the right tools and use the right software and shoot often.

Looks like I need to see him in the flesh. Unique for sure. If he is an older age class buck he may get the lead treatment near the end of December. Old age class anything is 2/3 the trophy to me.

I don’t have the time to cover every aspect of this hunt from the planning to the end so I will start with from when we left. Due to some issues at work my hunting partner and I left Anchorage at 01:00 on Thursday morning and drove all night to arrive on time at our 1st destination. Our 1st stop was at a small town airport where we would get on a commuter plane and take a short flight to a village where we would meet our local transporter. The plane arrived around 09:30. After unloading the plane and reloading our gear into a pickup were on our way to the drop off point. After driving down a remote trail for some time we picked a good place to stop and set up base camp close to where we wanted to hunt. We decided where we wanted to hunt by studying topo maps and google earth. When we stopped the pickup my buddy Charlie said there’s a goat RIGHT THERE! Sure enough just under 1000 yards was a nice billy standing on a peak. After he left we unloaded, set up a base camp, ate lunch and packed our spike camp gear we headed for the top of a knob that would put us close to a high mountain pass between 2 peaks. After fighting alders, devils club and spruce thickets along with some typical uphill goat terrain for some time we made it to the top of the first hump. We had to be careful not to push ourselves too hard in order to NOT sweat. We were upper teen and lower 20 degree temperatures with heavy winds and the last thing you need is to be wet from the inside. The terms “Cotton kills” and “The cheap stuff will kill you” apply here. Fleece, polyester, goose down and Gore-Tex are your best friends here. After resting for a few minutes we headed for the pass. As we got closer to the pass I saw another billy standing on a ridge top in the distance. What a sight to behold! A mature billy goat standing on the skyline in the cold crisp air in the sun light with the bright blue winter sky behind him is truly a breath taking image. These are the sights that keep me going! After viewing him through the Swarovski’s I watched him head down the mountain on the face we would be looking at when we reached the pass. What seemed like forever passed before we reached that pass. When we got near the top we dropped our packs and crawled over to the edge. We glassed high and low for that billy but could never find him. Charlie decided that I would shoot the first and if need be the only goat if there was one to be had as he had taken goats in the past and that he also bagged 3 nice critters this year where as I had not taken a goat nor any critters this year. Sometime later either the same billy or another billy appeared on the sky line again. I could not believe it. We watched him for a while cruise up and down the ridge. He would come into view and disappear. Over and over he would do this. He slowly worked his way down a ridge that would put him in close proximity of us. When I first ranged him he was 771 yards. I didn’t even contemplate a shot due to the high winds (20-25 mph) which was at our location and at his location which was evident by his long winter fur waving in the wind like wheat in a windy field. A few minutes later he was 650 yards. As he got closer I desired to get a really good look at him with the spotting scope which was 50 yards down the mountain. I had to face the slope while I descended and kick toe holds into the compacted snow on the slope to keep from sliding down. I would keep an eye on the goat while I advanced towards my pack to get my scope. Before I could get my scope out he was within 540 yards. I opted to forget the scope and get into position for a shot. Every time I would think about moving to get to a spot I could shoot from he would look our way. About the time I felt I could move he would come into view facing us again! This went on for about 30 minutes. Before I knew it he was 275 yards, then 200, then 175, then 150. He was so close and I would have been totally exposed if I stood up and couldn’t move. Charlie was looking at me in frustration as he felt I should have shot this goat by now. As the goat got within less than 150 yards he was hidden by a small mound. Charlie motioned for me to come up by him. When I go to the top I peaked over and saw him below. I dint range him as we were scary close! I dialed the knob for 100 yards and had to stand up to get the shot. I slowly stood up and the goat turned to run. He trotted a few yards and stopped briefly to analyze which way he should go. It was now or never. I took aim and torched off a round. As I was coming off the recoil I could tell he was hit. After about 10 yards he just flopped over and didn’t move a muscle. The 300 grain pill did the deed! Later I would learn that the bullet ripped square through the heart and loosed it from whatever it attaches to. I waited there for a few minutes to ensure he didn’t get up and then we jumped up and celebrated. There was something magical about laying my hand on those nice black horns and that thick heavy winter fur. All that long range practice only to have to have a 133 yard shot! We have yet to 'score' him but his horns are 9-3/8" and 9-1/4" long. I had initially decided to take my 308 (Jenny) but Charlie talked me into taking my 338 due to the very tough and spirited nature of mountain goats. We moved him a few yards to get him away from the bloody mess in the snow for some quality photos. After the photo session we took off the whole cape head to hoof and quartered him up. We packed down out of the pass to the 1st knob we made it up to so that we could bivy for the night. We had to use crampons to safely negotiate the slopes down to the knob. We cut some fire wood, made a big fire and cooked goat tenderloin over the coals. Wow! I always heard goat meat was nasty. Oh wait, on second thought, yeah it’s pretty bad. You may not ever want to go harvest one! That night would prove to snow all night. Despite the cold, wind and snow we stayed warm and dry all night. We had to work hard to through out the days and night to stay warm but we did. It wouldn’t be an Alaskan adventure if we didn’t work for it. Avril gets it done Looking from the pass to an ocean bay. My buddy Charlie with the cape. You aint going anywhere without these! Those clouds sure look ominous! Charlies bivy My bivy Too much sweat in the hair Charlie and I getting ready for the long trip home

Warmth came from the sleeping bag inside the bivy and dry is the whole point of a bivy. Bivys are made out of Gore-Tex or Pre-Vent or E-Vent materials. These are waterproof/breatheable materials. They are basically a weather barrier.

Personally I try not to use anymore power than I need. This cuts down on the effects of mirage and haze. For out to 600 yards I use 10 power minimum for average big game. For coues 14 or 15 would be better. Any farther than that and I prefer 15 minimum for average big game and 22 for coues.

Takes one to know one!

Couldnt have said it better. Hike, hike, hike. Pack, pack, pack. Glass, glass, glass. GL M

Very very very nice. what else is there to say! Very nice.