308Nut

US Optics is my favorite.

The most accurate method is to input line of sight into your app and the angle of incline. The app will calculate your drop. Short cutting with the "hold for" method gets you close but isn't perfect. The hold for method is the least accurate. The MOA * COS hold is more accurate but not perfect. Put the right numbers in the app and let the app do its job.

Are you using powder and primers from the same lot as your 168VLD load? Same brass? If not, try that. If so, try adjusting your COAL. FWIW, I'm running the 162ELDM and they're behaving very well. I know they aren't the ELDX but I can't imagine they're a whole lot different. My best accuracy has been within .010" of the lands. M

I shot this three shot group (168 ABLR) this morning at 300 yards off the bench. Right at 1-3/8" center to center. I wouldn't call it conclusive as its only the second group I've shot with them but in both cases, they shot with the same degree of accuracy as the 162 ELDMs I was working with at the time including today. I dropped .5 grain from my 162 pet load and didn't adjust my seating die in either case either. I haven't measured the distance from the lands yet but the comparator showed they would be further from them so I rolled with it. All things considered, I'm going to stick with the 162 ELDM for general practice and probably deer/antelope and other light boned critters. They're reasonably priced compared to the ABLR and scary accurate/consistent and their BC is tough to beat. I don't know if it's higher than the original AMAX but I do know the 208 ELDM is noticeably higher than the AMAX so if I had to guess, I'd say it most likely is but I'll prove that later. If the 168 ABLR proves to stay consistent in my rig, I'll definately use them on the heavier variety of game. Larger mule deer, black bears, elk etc... They worked well in my 300 win, no reason they shouldn't work in my 280AI. Regards, M

H1000 is tough to beat in the 300 win. As far as the 212 or 215...whichever your rifle digests the best...

Forgot the 6.5x284.

High ballistic performance to recoil ratio. There's many good calibers out there and none are the end all be all of calibers but for coues, the 6.5 is near perfect.

Whatever the flavor of the month is...they're all adequate and all precise. All get their legs stretched regularly. Three 308 wins and one 280AI. Forgot to include the 6.5x284 in an A5.

^^^^^Truth^^^^^

I shoot 168 vld hunters in my 280ai. Kimber mtn ascent I get .5 moa. Could you share your findings with the load you have worked up? The kimber mtn ascent is shaping up to be a very accurate rifle. I was just doing some load development with my buddies mtn ascent 308 and it's a real shooter. He's got a friend with the 280ai shooting 1:2 to sub 1:2 MOA at 300 yards as well. I've only currently shot one group with the 168ABLR but it was promising. At some point, I'll try and fine tune them but right now I'm still testing a couple more powder and primer combos using the 162A as a baseline. I think I've narrowed my choices to H4831 or 7828SSC. Initially I had phenomenal results with RETUMBO but I was using an older lot from a single one pound bottle. When I switched to my 8 pound keg, it's a no go

I shot a few 175 7mm ELDXs the other day. They didn't shoot any better or worse than the 162 AMAXs and 168 ABLRs. I think if the BC holds true and they perform well on game, they'd be a great choice. FWIW, I shot some of the 178 30 cal ELDXs all the way to 1006 yards and they were spot on for drops though the 200s were a fair bit lower than predicted. That said, there's a few reasons they could be lower in my rifle. Lower velocity being one. Less of a sg factor another possibility.

I also was running the 210 in my 300 Win. They shot lights out. Had them in the .2s and .3s consistently. Running 3 and 3-1/2" at 720 no problem. That said, the 142 shoots extremely well in my 6.5-284 but I can't get the 190 or 210 to shoot well in anything else. I'm trying 168s in a 280AI tomorrow.

I would like to see a show of hands of who has never done something really stupid, never stole anything, never lied or never cheated. I would never condone a guy stealing cameras but I can forgive a guy having a moment of stupidity, or even a string of stupidity stealing a camera or cameras and then cooperating when caught and making a public statement admitting how stupid he was and offer an apology. I wonder how many users here that think BC777 has no character whatsoever have never stolen anything or told a lie. I certainly am not going to minimize the seriousness of theft but it's funny to watch other people call another person's character into question when they themselves have done equally irresponsible crap in their own lives at one time or another. Any given stupid act or even a string of stupid acts doesn't mean a person is a waste of space. If all you know about a person is one bad thing they did, you'll see them as bad. I'm sure even Charles Manson held a door open for an old woman once in his life. If that's all an old woman knew about him, they'd think he was a saint when we all know he was truly rotten. A little live and let live never hurt. Especially when everbody needs a little forgiveness from time to time. I for one can always respect a man the sucks up his pride and admits he's stupid and moves on. 777, yes you did something completely stupid but you owned it. If you're gonna be wrong, be wrong strong. You did. Good job.

Living in Alaska isn't all rainbows and sunshine as you might think. The money's good yes but the cost of living is higher. Property taxes suck too. It's a tough place to be full time for a lot of reasons. The hunting?? Well it has it's pros and cons. If you think it's hard to draw AZ elk, antelope and deer tags as a resident, try drawing them as a non resident. And I assure you, you will get the itch to hunt traditional big game. Especially elk. When you do draw elk, deer or antelope tags, it becomes very expensive and time consuming to use those tags. Sure you can hunt moose, caribou, bears and sheep here every year. I assure you it takes a lot of time, money and even more effort. Honestly, I hate most of the hunting here. It's always wet, cold and you're up to your nuts in muck or thorns. No it's not impossible to hunt here and it's not impossible to enjoy the hunting. You just need to be aware of how difficult, expensive and time consuming it can be. Regardless, the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. I'd give just about anything to be able to scout deer all year and chase rutting bucks every January in the desert close to home, scout elk every year while I wait for my turn to be drawn, shed hunting etc...and you guys would give anything to have moose and caribou tags every year. I never want to discourage anybody from relocating to AK but they should know what they're getting into. Regards! M

I have only briefly browsed through this thread so I apologize in advance if I'm repeating anybody. 1st, I think with the right bullet, the 300WM is a long range hammer. Even for bigger game like mature bull elk. 2nd, what kind of bullet should be determined by your max range. If you're wishing to keep it close to reasonably close, a 200 partition or 200 ACCUBOND are tough to beat. If you want to reach further, then I think a heavier, higher BC offering is a better option. If you really want to run way out there then you're going to need to go even heavier and more streamlined. I am not typically a Berger fan. With that in mind, I've also come to appreciate the 300WM / 215 Hybrid combo. It is a superb combination. Yes they come unglued but there is more than enough mass and materials present to see it through. I've also had good success with the 210ablr. The bc is less than advertised but still quite adequate. They're a bit more frail than I thought they'd be but hold up fair. I haven't played with the 212 ELDX yet. In theory, they would be a solid compliment to the 300WM. Probably not as explosive as the 215 hybrid and has a lower BC but comparable. M

I think you made a good choice there if you're going to be heading up to the peaks. The lower land doesn't require anything special. Once you start up to the high ground, you'll need stiff soles and aggressive tread. Don't forget the gaiters!

Dang, no opportunities, or what? How many days were you after it with the rifle? That was the second rifle hunt, correct? How was the weather? Thanks for the information and I really appreciate you offering it up. I'm sure I'll message you once I really get into the planning!! Was out for 7 days. No opportunities. I had the Governor's permit and was able to hunt all of sep with archery and all of October with a rifle. I was there early sep and the first week of October. Weather was horrific both times. dang... that rally gives me some confidence haha! Don't be discouraged. It's a tough hunt but not impossible. The more research you do, the more people you talk to and the better shape you are in, the higher your chances of success. Don't forget to call the Petersburg DFG office. Rich is the biologist and a wealth of info. Weather does play a large role. If I can offer you some advice, plan on arriving to your departure point early and plan on arriving to Etolin early. If the weather is bad, you wont be able to get to Etolin until it clears up which means you'll be stuck in a hotel room somewhere for a few days. That will eat into your hunting time AND after spending your time, energy and money to get there, you really do want to be on the island, find some elk if possible and have first crack. Like I said, when guns go bang, they disappear and you cant rely on calling though they can still be a bit vocal on October first. The rut has wound down quite a bit by October but they are still somewhat active. They just aren't as responsive as rocky mt elk. Who knows, where you elect to hunt may turn out to be not so tough and the weather might be good. With that in mind, if you desire to hunt the peaks and start out from the beach, you will have your work cut out for you. If you can get dropped a bit higher, it'll help though it'll still be work. Again, if you're in good shape, that will go a long way. Plan on the best rain gear possible. I recommend 3 layer GoreTex, Make sure you take gaiters and cramp-ons along with top grade boots. DO NOT TAKE COTTON products. If you'd like, I could scan my last topo map and email it to you. I'm sure a lot has changed since the last time I was there but every bit helps.

Dang, no opportunities, or what? How many days were you after it with the rifle? That was the second rifle hunt, correct? How was the weather? Thanks for the information and I really appreciate you offering it up. I'm sure I'll message you once I really get into the planning!! Was out for 7 days. No opportunities. I had the Governor's permit and was able to hunt all of sep with archery and all of October with a rifle. I was there early sep and the first week of October. Weather was horrific both times.

Turned out about the same as the first. Only the return trip was forced to start out on the salt water. I drew the October 1st tag in 2013 but burned it for other hunting opportunities I drew tags for.

I am the author of that story. I am Michael Eichele on LRH.com

I've hunted Etolin twice for elk. Not trying to inhibit your excitement but it's a pretty miserable hunt. Ungodly thick brush, very steep. Lots of Devils club and slime everywhere. If you caught up a ridge where there's blow downs, they're stacked on top of one another like Lincoln logs. You'll climb over a set, be trapped and have to throw your back pack over the heap and crawl under the pile through a 2' gap. You might do that for a quarter mile and can take hours. You're feet will come out from under you faster than you can put a hand out. You'll take a step on what seems like normal ground and your leg disappears up to your nuts. Did I mention it was steep? If that's not enough, it rains constantly. Heavy thick rain that can last for days. Everything will get wet and stay wet. Even on a sunny day, standing on the very top of the mountain, you're feet will be soaked after standing in one spot for a minute. They sink a few inches and water pools up. Trying to start and keep a fire going is exhausting. If you want some good information, call ADF&G's office in either Ketchikan or it might be Wrangell. Ask for Rich Lowell. (907) 772-3801 he has a very good pulse on the herds there and will mail you a packet with some information and stats. He will talk the hunt up quite a bit. They spent a lot of time and money transplanting those elk and it took several tries before enough survived to get a foot hold. He really wants it to be a success. Popular areas to hunt are Trout Creek, Mount Shakes, Mount Etolin and McHenry Creek. They typically don't hang out near the beach until the late season or later but sometimes you get lucky. A boat is the best method to try and catch them on the beach. You'll either hike in from the salt water. Dropped off by boat or float plane. I recommend getting dropped off AND picked up in a Beaver. There are a few lakes you can get dropped in too. Sometimes you have to wait a few days in Ketchikan or Wrangell for the weather to break before you can fly. Sometimes the fog allows them to land on salt water but not the lakes. Even if you want to be on a lake, you'll get dropped at the bottom. Lake 1314 is a good drop point for Shakes or Mt. Etolin. I cannot stress enough how important it is to get into good shape. This hunt demands that you be in the best possible physical condition. More importantly you'll need to be in good mental condition too. Determination is what will make or break the hunt. You'll probably have your best chance of success up high. Be the first ones there. Once shots are fired, they'll disappear into the abyss of brush never to be seen again. Rosies as a whole are not as vocal as RM elk which makes them harder to locate once they're in the heavy cover. All in all, if you enjoy being cold, wet, sore, tired, hungry and constantly in survival mode, you'll enjoy the hunt. Granted, if you hunt down low near a base camp, it won't be as miserable since you can stay in a bigger tent with more creature comforts but your odds off success will be much smaller on a hunt where success is already very low. Back packing in up high has the best chance for success. If there were ever a he!! on earth, Etolin Island has it beat. I wish you well and wish you success. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. Don't forget the sat phone... M

I found in my old 300 rum that 1 grain more or less of H1000 yielded about 30fps. Yes, it took a lot more powder to get a little increase in horsepower.

What is what's length compared to a 208 AMAX? The 208 AMAXs and 208 ELDMs that I have are the exact same length though the bearing surface of the ELDM is slightly longer. No more than normal manufacturing tolerances between lots... OR Did you mean the length between the 178 ELDX versus the 208 AMAX?

The bearing surface is a bit longer than the 175 TMK. It's almost identical to the 178 HPBT match except for the tip of course, which also makes it slightly longer overall than the 178 match. The ELDX is vastly different than the 178 AMAX. The nose profile is the same as the 200 ELDX.

SMH... I've got 300 in the mail.