308Nut

Darn straight snowfall can have an effect on elk depending on the depth. 7E is a tough unit even when they are bugling. There are some awesome bulls in the pinyon/juniper flatlands but being a late hunt, you guessed it, bulls are very tough to hunt. That said, and having spent alot of time in 7E, for a hunter that pays attention to details and is observant, he can do quite well in 7E even in the late season. Happy hunting! M

December 2009 CWT hunt. Once in a blue moon This hunt starts out in the spring when the applications are being sent in to the Arizona Game and Fish. I had enough bonus points to draw and deer hunt anywhere I wanted south of the Colorado River and had my sights set on a good mule deer hunt that I had been dreaming about for eons. The fact that the late Coues tag numbers had been slashed to very few meant that there were only 2 non-resident tags available for the late Coues hunt that I had also always wanted. I decided that if I burned my points on that mule deer hunt I may never have enough points to draw the late Coues tag I also wanted. Also, my cousin Rex is a beyond help Coues nut and only applies for the late Coues tags. Bottom line, I opted to apply for the Coues tag. When the draw results came out it was very anti-climactic as I knew what the results would be at least for me. Rex called me later that evening and told me he also had drawn the same hunt. Sweet! It had been 5 years since he had drawn a permit. It was going to be a good season. The spring had been wet, there was no more archery hunts in December in our unit, the tag numbers had been restructured so there were only 23 other hunters in the unit, it was a rut hunt which can be frustrating but exciting none the less and we had team work on our side. I decided that since I had to travel all the way from Alaska to hunt, and having a new and first baby in the house, I didn’t want to hunt the full 21 days. I opted for 2 full weeks. Rex started hunting opening morning. The beginning of what would become a 21-day marathon. He had our sights set really high as anybody with this tag and somebody who already has a great buck well over the 100” mark should do. Not having harvested a Coues buck in the past, I was hesitant to let any nice looking buck walk, at least not after the first week. I would hunt for a giant for the first week. Rex called me about 3 days before I was to leave and said they were rutting. This got the excitement going! Finally my first day of hunting was here. About 10:00 I spotted 5 deer. After putting the spotting scope on them I discovered there were 3 bucks and 2 does. The lead buck was big, over 100” big. It was hard to not pursue him but decided to stay on target for a really big buck. Day 2 was fairly unproductive. Day 3 was excellent. We saw quite a few bucks and does first thing in the morning. Then things slowed down. At about 1:00 pm Rex spotted a buck moving across the canyon wall. After sizing him up, I was tempted again. He had a typical 3x3 frame plus eye guards and was VERY heavy. His G3’s were a bit short for my taste so I let him walk. After analyzing in my head what his score would be I realized he was a better buck that I first thought. He had a solid 100” frame but with his exceptional mass he could have been 110” plus or minus. About an hour later I spotted a doe’s legs under a cedar. A few minutes later she ran off. I knew there was a buck around. A minute later I spotted another doe hustling through the brush. Shortly after I spotted another deer and I assumed it was a doe behind her. I watched her run through a break between cedars and held my bino’s there. When the other deer passed through the opening, Rex and I both saw it was a buck. My first reaction was that it was a good buck. After he lost interest in the does he stopped to destroy a sapling with his large frame. We both noted how wide this buck was. He was wider than his ears on both sides. Rex elected to pass and we decided that this deer was good enough for me. Rex said he was better than his best buck and that he could be near 110”. I decided to harvest him only if he had eye guards. After he stopped tearing up the sapling, I saw the eye guards and set up on the shot. He was 440 yards. I waited him out. He stepped out and when he turned broadside, I took aim, and rested my finger along my trigger. The trigger broke clean and the .308 barked. The 168 Hornady was on the way at 2810 FPS. I knew the shot was a good one. I heard the bullet impact and Rex said “dead deer!!!” When I finally reached the buck I could not believe what I saw. He looked like an eastern whitetail! He was so wide and his points were so long. He seemed to get bigger the closer I got and each time I looked at him. After taping him carefully, we came up with 109-1/8” green. Not bad for a first Coues buck! After a couple of storm systems, a lot of cold windy weather, and 10 hours a day behind tri-pod mounted Swarovski bino’s we had not found the buck of Rex’s dreams. Rex’s long time friend Ty Goodman who is also a professional guide offered to help out. Despite the fact that there are several outstanding guides in the area, Ty is among the best of them. He took us to a couple of his spots and he came with us to one of our spots to help us glass. As the days wound down without seeing the monster we were looking for, we were both getting a bit discouraged. I think I wanted to see him get a buck even more than he did. My long awaited Coues hunt would just not be complete unless he also scored on a good buck. It was now the last day. December 31st. It was ‘do or die’. Rex decided that since it had been so long between tags and success, that he would harvest any decent 3x3 frame buck with eye guards. Ty and his son Nick took us to Nick’s honey hole. After hiking over a mile through some rugged country to a semi-remote basin, we were seeing lots of deer right off the bat and lots of bucks, just not any good bucks. About 10:00, Rex spotted a deer at over a mile. Ty put the scope to it and his reaction told the tale. After we all had a look, the consensus was that he was in the 100” range. He was rutting up a storm. He was chasing does and raking trees. After a half hour discussion and terrain analysis, we all agreed that since Ty is half whitetail that he had the best chance of keeping track of this buck and Rex and I would stalk the buck. We elected to take my rifle in case a longer than average shot was presented. Rex is a capable shooter but his rifle is old and tired. The accuracy of it limited his range to 300-400 yards max. After a long hot hike we approached the buck’s locations. They had moved a few hundred yards and Ty directed us in on top of them. The day was winding down and we had to make a move even if we had to snap shoot him. The wind betrayed us and the does blew out followed by the buck. They were gone. Rex’s and my heart sank to very low levels. We opted to sit and glass hoping to pick him up again. We never did. About an hour later, Ty motioned to us to meet him in the saddle he had worked his way down into from his vantage point. After we arrived he said “I’ve got him, I’ve got him bedded.” He told us that we could get to 550-500 yards of the buck’s location. This guy is amazing! We all lost him and Ty being half whitetail was able to pick him up again in a completely different location. The moment of truth had arrived. We walked a bit lower in the saddle to get just a bit closer for the best possible shot and set up Rex with the .308. The range was 500 yards and according to the ballistic calculator I had him dial 5.5 MOA. Rex got comfortable and we waited. And waited, and waited. Finally the doe stood up less than an hour before the close of the season. After 21 days of hunting everything hinged on the final hour. Slowly she moved to our right. The buck followed. This was truly a sight to behold. As the buck exited the shade tree fortress his body was in the shadows while his wide and beautiful antlers glistened in the evening sun. It was breathtaking. I coached Rex on the wind and when the buck stopped, he squeezed off the 15oz. Jewell trigger and the sharp crack of the .308 split the silent crisp desert air wide open. We all watched as the bullet impacted the buck and folded him right in his tracks. Even Rex saw it through the scope due to the mild recoil of the .308. We all hooted and hollered. Rex and I both jumped up and gave a big old hug. We were all giving high fives and making phone calls. This LONG hunt and long day was finally over. I know Rex and I both could have lived with it being over sooner but this made the hunt all the more sweeter and exciting. With a world class hunt that has taken me so long to be a part of, what is the difference between opening morning and the last hour? EVERYTHING!! I got to savor every last flavor of the season. I sat there and cried I was so overjoyed. The longer and harder you work for a trophy the more you appreciate it. As hard as Rex worked for his, this one ought to be his finest trophy ever! It was accomplished by what I call ‘Team Ghostbusters’. It took all four of us to secure his trophy. I now know why they are called the ‘grey ghost’. They are very gray and it takes dang near an exorcism to get a bullet in one! Perhaps it is fate that on that very night was the blue moon. I am just ever so grateful that my long awaited hunt included Rex’s success. For me, this was my hunt of a lifetime. For Rex, it was once in a blue moon.

I am speachless.

+1 RR. That is another very good point. Excessive headspace is another major cause of case/head separation. elkhunter, If you are seeing this with only two to three resizes, try setting your die back a bit (where the shoulder just kisses the die) or neck sizing. This will allow for much longer brass life than what you are getting.

That is to be expected when full length resizing the same case over and over. As the case expands and gets resized repeateadly, brass moves forward starting from where it os cracked. It gets thinner and thinner until you get what you just got. If this is happening with only a couple of resizes, it almost definately is from setting the shoulder back at least .005-.010" from when it was extracted. You might want to try neck sizing only and only run them full length when they start to get tight in the chamber. When you do FL size, try not setting the shoulder back more than .0005" (1/2 of on thousands NOT 5 thousands) per resize. That is one of the biggest culprits (setting the shoulder back too much). You will have to sacrifice some time and fire formed brass to set the die so as to not set the shoulder back more than .0005-.001" Hope that helps! M

A wee bit but not enough to sweat over it. If you're worried about it, have a brake threaded to the end of the barrel. M

Scenery The tools of the trade Rex (pwrguy) glassing 308Nut glassing My buck Rex's (pwrguy) buck

Very very nice. Congrats on a great buck! Glad to see that you caped him out for a mount. It is worthy of a mount for sure.

Oooooooooooooooops!!!!!! I knew that area was'nt the best spot to dump that toxic radioactive waste. SORRY!!!!

I know what I would want to do and I know what I would do. Regradless, if you decided to take the shot, I wonder if they would 'turn you in' to the authorities. I will probably loose some respect here but I will be honest anyway. If I perceived that they were illegal imagrants, I would cut them some slack and let them walk and pass on the buck. Despite the fact that I dont like illegal imagrant activities, it isnt worth it. If I perceived that they were drug mules, things might be different. Drug mules are like coyotes. I would seriously concider shooting the buck of my dreams. The ball would then be in their court as to what happened next.........If they chose to keep truckin, good on them. If they layed down to fight, I am more patient. Then reality would have set in and as I was concidering shooting my once in a lifetime buck, I would realize that a bad situation could turn into heck for alot of good people and I would end up passing on the shot. With mouths to feed at home, my pride and hatred for drug mules isnt worth death or jail.

Size of your target? Are we talking coues bucks or elk?

Carbs in the morning, mix of protien and carbs by day, lots of protien by night, lots of water all the time, cover you head while you sleep and dont sleep on the ground (use a thermal barrier). Dont forget the rain gear and fire starter.

It is hard to tell based on the ears alone because you need more of a frontal look so you can see how far from the center of his head they are and how big or little they are compared to his whole head. When you have the profile of one ear against the background, it can be very decieving. However, the fact that his legs appear long due to the very high ground clearence of this bear indicates that he is a smaller, imature bear. When his body fills out to the point that his legs look shorter, he will be a better bear. His legs will appear shorter because his belly will be near the ground.

Very nice!

For the most part, I agree with you on the age. Most would agree (including myself) though that the difference between a 10 year old bull elk in the peak of the rut versus a 1-3 year old in the peak of the rut is quite noticable in regards to quality.

+1 Age, how fast it is cooled, how much dirt or piss from the hide touches meat, how much it was pushed after it was shot (clean kill versus lots of adrenaline over time), gut shot, bladder shot, boiler room shot, etc..... all play major factors in how a critter is going to taste. For rutting deer, there is a gland on the hind leg that oozes a nasty oily musk. Get that on your knife or let it touch meat and it will not taste too plesent. M

I like the Harris. I am a fan of light weight due to the backpacking that I do. With that in mind, I like the 'Model L'. It doesnt have the swivel (to save weight) and it is a good balance between length and weight. It is 9-13" With a bit of practice, you can adjust one side or the other with your non trigger hand with the rifle cradled while watching your bubble level. There have been times the height was an issue being not enough. I have always been able to improvise using a pack frame or some other object. Most of the time though the height is perfect. For a non-packing rifle you could go a bit longer or have a double teloscopic version. There are certainly other good bi-pods out there. The Harris is just easy to find, easy to use, durable and economical. M The moment of truth 2009. Had to be used with a tripod under the butt of the rifle: Moment of truth 2007. SHOULD have had a tripod under the stock. Got her done anyway.

Awesome job guys. Congrats to the young man! I try not to confess too much but I have to say, where some guys dream of big Arizona Strip bucks, I dream of big desert mulies. What I wouldnt give up to take a buck like that out of the Sonoran Desert. That truely is the buck/location of my dreams. Congrats again, M

Find a more flexible boss. It takes days to find another boss. Years to draw a late CWT tag.

Good job Rex. Great first bull for the friend. If you took him where I think you took him, rugged is right! M

This is a hypothetical question. If you had enough points to put you in the max point pass for a few archery bull hunts (5BS, 6AS, 7E, 7W, 8), which would you pick as your first and only choice if these were your only options? The most important concideration is having a good fun hunt with multiple opprotunities at 300-330 class bulls with the possibility of at least seeing one or two 330-380 bulls. I realize many of you would not concider any of these units for an early bow hunt but if these were your only options.............. I talked with a really good outfitter today and I think he has sold me on a guided hunt. He steered me towards a particular unit but he had other units in mind as well. I just want to make sure I am not missing anything. Either way, he recomended a few of the above which I have some knowledge of but would like some of your opinions and perceptions. I realize that I need mental help. I am a long time elkaholic and I would love to hold out for a 'better" hunt. 'Better' is becoming a more subjective term all the time. Besides, I dont think I have that kind of patience and I know there is potential for a great overall hunt in all of the above units. Regards! M

Aside from the obvious and what has been mentioned already, I carry a full set of rain gear and a down jacket along with a head sock. Wind puffer, bone saw and rubber gloves. In addition, a E.L.K. 'deer talk/deer stopper'. It stops semi spooked deer including bucks dead in thier tracks. Either for one last size em up look or for a clean shot or both. With my metabolism, LOTS of food and water.

+ 1 Never heard of that one either

I have never heard of that unit before. Must be a real gem!

It depends on alot of factors but for MOST practical huntting conditions, the improved rifleman method is fairly close. Obviously, the further out and steeper the incline the further apart they become. For example, I shot a dall ram at 763 yards in 2002. He was at 4500', temp was 58 degrees and the incline was 17 degrees. The standard drop would have been 17.75 MOA. The corrected MOA was 16.5MOA. Using the rifleman method, (17.75 * .956) = 16.9MOA or about 4" of error which isnt too bad. For this example, it works out pretty good. On the flip side, in 2008, I shot another dall ram at 702 yards at 38 degrees incline which normally would work out to 15 MOA at 5400' and 52 degrees F. Add the incline and it works out to 10.25MOA. Using the RMM, (15 * .788) = 11.8 for an 11 inch mistake (11.8 - 10.25) * 7.02 = 11". Granted, this was a very long shot and a very steep incline. Most hunters will never encounter a shot like that. However, I know alot of you are sheep fanatics and you may just find yourself in that position or worse someday. One thing is FOR SURE! That is that the riflemans method works MANY times better when using MOA values instead of yardage. For the record, if you check my calculator against any other calculator out there including RSI, Exbal, JBM (online), Berger, Sierra etc.....the numbers are within anywhere from fractions of an inch to 2" at 1000 yards. You will see those variances in all programs when comparing them side by side. M