308Nut

Has anybody compared the 300 running the new 215 Berger against the 7mm and 180 Berger on the calculator? It would be interesting to compare the wind and energies.

Awesome! I want one of those late mulie tags so bad.

That's a heck of a great shot. It just shows the longrange hunting naysayers what can be done with the rights tool, knowledge and practice. Great job! M

Too bad you weren't in Phoenix today. I'm just sitting at the airport bored as he!! Waiting to head home

I have a stainless 700 short action 308 for sale. This is a factory stainless fluted barrel. 26" (-1/16" for a new face and crown) 12 twist in sendero/varmint contour. She rests in a McMillan A3 stock molded in GAP camo, 'pillars installed'. Factory bottom metal, factory trigger which is the cleanest Remington trigger I have ever pulled. There is ZERO creep and is 2.5#. An 11 degree target crown has been cut at the muzzle and is razor sharp. This is honestly the cleanest 700 action I have ever seen. With all the talk in past years about Remington quality, this one is superb. There are 118 rounds down the pipe. I can offer load data to the buyer. I have only shot 155 AMAXs, 168 AMAXs, 190 SMKs and 190 VLDs. All showed plenty of accuracy potential except for the 190VLD. Most of the time it seems like the VLDs like to be just off the lands. This being a factory barrel, you cant get them near the lands. The 155s, 168s and 190SMKs all show 1/2 MOA to sub 1/2MOA. The 168 AMAXs over varget were shooting ragged holes. I'm sure with the 155s you would see the same with a bit more tuning. I just didn't shoot that many but with minimal testing they were in the 1/2MOA range. 190SMKs were the same story. Minimal load work and they were in the 1/2MOA zone. Between varget and RL15, she likes varget the best. These are the only two powders I've ran through her. If you want a solid performer, you wont be disappointed in this rifle. I hate to let her go but I have another project I really want to pursue and I need to let something go. I have two very accurate 308s, I only need one and this one has the least sentimental value to me. I am asking $1250 plus shipping to your FFL.

Sold pending payment.

So, my hunting buddy of 16 years (Charlie) drew arguably the most coveted dall sheep permit in the state of Alaska. Tok Management Area. This area is known for its incredible genetics and high ram densities. Its also known for its quantity of 40+" rams. Some also having exceptional mass. Anyway, we first heard the news in February. Since we had at that time taken 12 rams together and been on countless sheep hunts together, he invited me along to help him pack, spot, judge and set him up on a shot. He has yet to take one with his rifle! Yes I am proud of that and not ashamed to admit it. Its part of what makes us a good team. He has better stalking skills and I have better shooting skills. Between those two, no ram has yet to be safe! It would take me hours to write how hard both mentally and physically tough this hunt was and how many perils there were. It is definitely one of the top two toughest, hardest and arduous hunts I have ever been on. It redefined pain and agony. The instability of the ground we were on, the instability of the boulder fields we had to cross coupled with the sheer steepness, the thickest alder patches I've ever seen and the raw distance we had to pack really pushed us near our absolute limits. My pack weighed in excess of 100# heading out (verified by the scale at the super cub hanger) between meat, horn and gear. Alaska law states that he could not hunt the same day airborne. Since we flew in on Monday morning, we hiked up into the abyss to look for a place to set up camp and search for rams in hopes to take one on Tuesday or Wednesday. We had scheduled to be picked up on the 8th but was hoping to get it done early. We were less worried about the 'sheep hunting experience' and more concerned with getting him a ram he's been dreaming about. To keep a long story short, we found a suitable place to set up camp and we were able to glass up several rams. One really caught my attention. At 2 air miles, I could tell he was a double full curl with decent mass. Charlie was skeptical and it didn't really impress him. I tried to convince him that if he laid his hands on him, he would love this ram. He decided he wanted to head further up the drainage and bypass the ram to look for a 'better looking' ram. After experiencing the full wrath and hatred of this mountain valley, he decided that we should take a closer look at this ram. He also decided that he would be happy with any legal ram. We climbed up to the basin he was in to look him over more closely. We saw a ram right off the bat when we got to the high basin. We had been trying to size up a small full curl when Charlie saw another one walk down into a small cut and just caught a glimpse of the back of his horns and he got excited. He thought it was a great looking ram but didn't know if it was legal. I just saw his body disappear and never saw his horns. He wasn't sure what to do. I said, lets just go down there and look at him. If he's legal than shoot him. As we started to get up, two rams came from around the corner 135 yards below us. One looked pretty good. Then a third one appeared. When I put the binos to him, I instantly knew he was a shooter. He then stepped behind a small hump and disappeared from sight. Charlie didn't get a look at him and he was getting my rifle ready and loaded for a shot. He was going to shoot the better of the two rams that were visible. I begged him to wait. He kept saying what a nice ram it was and I kept telling him there was another one that was worth waiting for. He asked me if I was sure and I said yes, just wait. He was getting nervous as they were about to walk off out of sight. A minute later, the 'better' ram stepped out. Charlie took one look and agreed he was a much better ram and that it was what he was looking for. He lined up the crosshairs and squeezed one off. I saw fur fly and so did Charlie. Just a couple seconds went by and he lied down without ever even kicking. It was over. He hugged me and started to cry. While had taken 5 rams in the past, only two of them were decent in his eyes. This one was hands down his best looking ram and was exactly what he had been dreaming about. After we gathered our gear, we ran down off the rock field to look at his ram. He was gorgeous. He was better than full curl on both sides, has pretty decent mass and flares out which is what he was looking for. After a minute or two I asked Charlie to give me a few minutes before the photo session and dressing so I could run over to the cut so as to look for the other ram. No sooner did I get there, I saw the ram's back. He was feeding and totally unaware of what had happened and unaware of my presence. The wind was howling pretty hard and the direction was perfect. I estimated him to be about 40 yards. Well within most archers shooting abilities (including mine!). Too bad I didn't also draw a permit. I saw a fairly big boulder 20 yards between me and the ram. With his eyes out of sight, soft ground and the noisy wind, I decided to just run for the boulder. I got there undetected. At 20 yards, this is the closest I have ever been to ANY ram let alone a true trophy and a true trophy he was! He was roughly 37-38" with nearly 14" bases, double full curl and definitely at least 8 years old but I'm fairly certain he was 9 and possibly 10. After a few minutes of oooing and aweing over this stud ram, I decided to go sneak up to another rock 1/2 way between him and I. Success! I made it. I could see every detail of his hair, eyes, horns etc...I saw another rock 5 yards ahead. I really wanted to get to this point, rush him and smack him in the a$$. I quickly elected against that after visualizing getting head butted. So I stayed at 10 yards and enjoyed the show. After 10 minutes or so, I had to spoil the situation to go help Charlie with photos and dressing. For me, this was the experience of a lifetime and a dream come true for this sheep hunter. Unfortunately, I left my camera at the kill site but the images are burned in my mind forever. After getting him photographed, dressed and loaded up, it was near darkness and we had 2 miles of very rough terrain to negotiate. The decision was made to don all of our clothes, rain gear and tough out the nigh about 300 yards from the kill site in a nice grassy area that was less windy and soft which also had several big boulders to shelter us from what wind there was. The next day's pack out to camp was brutal but we made it back to camp. That night the wind was bending and breaking my tent poles. I had to get up at 23:30 to breakdown my tent, reposition it and jam my backpack against the poles to keep the wind from flexing them any further. The next day we were able to get near the landing strip, build a fire and eat backstrap. Let me tell you it was delicious! After a good night sleep with no wind, no rain (FINALLY!) and on soft ground, we got picked up and enjoyed the 70 mile flight back to Tok. Enjoy the pics.

Good job ASU...Good job!!!!

Factory 284 cases are only manufactured seasonally and near impossible to get. The most common method is to buy 6.5x284 brass which is much more readily available by Norma and Lapua. Then neck it up. I've never played with a straight 284 but the guys I know that do have them have had great luck with H4831SC and H4350. I also know a couple that run the 180 VLDs over RL17 with blistering speed. M

Some branches of the military use the 175 in their 308s for an assortment of reasons but doesnt include hitting like a 50 bmg. It's a great all around 30 cal bullet but if you want maximum retained energy you might look to the 208 Amax, 210 VLD, 210 ALR or 215 Berger. The 190 VLD is probably the best balance between windage, energy and recoil where the 210s+ will drift the least and hit game the hardest but will also hit you harder. All that said, the 175 can and will get it done at longrange but there are better options for longrange hunting. As far as accuracy, they all have great accuracy potential.

I have also found that magnum primers work well or even best IMO when using double base powders such as RL17 and VV 500 series powders in smaller cases such as the 308 and variants of it, 284 and variants etc... Better accuracy and lower extreme spreads have been my experience. I use non magnum primers in my 300WM using over 70 grains of H1000 with better results than the magnum primers. I think it's best left up to a rifle and load combo to decide which is best. !!!...

TTT

48 peices of virgin un-primed Nosler 280 AI brass. 65$ to your door. USA only. 99 Berger 168 grain 7mm classic hunter bullets. 45$ to your door. USA only. SOLD

26

Wow. Just wow.

Everything is simple until you want to take it to the limits. You certainly don't need 3rd axis sights on a bow and a level and a stabilizer and arrows spined for optimum forgiveness etc.... If you intend on shooting on level ground at 10-20 yards while being happy with hitting an 8" pie tin. It's when you decide that you want to hit a target the size of a softball at 80 yards in every possible condition that complicates things. Then you need laser rangefinders, angle compensation, 3rd axis sights, levels, stabilizers, understanding proper spine, FOC balance, tuning, repeatable form, mental focus, muscle memory etc...honestly archery is just as bad if you own a complicated mind and demand precision shot placement at ranges most archers think is unacceptable. Only....there are no bi-pods and prone positions to be had in archery. Only mind games with your body.

And that's part of the fun!! Usually, when the computer doesn't match the real world it's usually one of 3 things or a combination of the 3. Assuming your air density is right, scope height, starting zero, distance, etc... Is all spot on, it's errors in BC, velocity or scope click values that are not right. But as stomp mentioned, it's actual shooting that reveals these things.

Forgot to check the follow topic box.

As stomp mentioned, G7 values are less sensitive to velocity variances. This eliminates the need to enter multiple BCs throughout the distance range. Sierra publishes a variety of BCs based on different velocities and this is why many software apps have options to enter multiple BCs. This is valuable when using the G1 model. OR you can use the G7. Personally I find that when using higher BC bullets such as the 30 cal 190 VLD and higher at average velocities, G1 versus G7 is a fairly close trajectory match assuming you started out with good data to begin with. With lower BC bullets, I find that either G7 or G1 using multiple BCs over the velocity range works the best. All of this is with equal to or less than 1000 yards. Beyond that, what I'm preaching here changes. I also find that when converting from G1 to G7 that a .496 multiplier is a closer match than the standard .512 multiplier. For example, converting the widely accepted Litz BC value for the 208 Amax to G7, the multiplier .496 gives a better real world G7 BC than the .512 multiplier. This gives you a .314 which IMHO is more accurate than the .324 G7 BC commonly used. Right or wrong, applying this to the 140 VLD 264 caliber and 190 VLD 30 cal. has been deadly accurate. Comparing these against any decent app will confirm this methodology. Not to be confused with the formulas stomp referenced but solely converting from a proven G1 BC to G7. As far as inconsistency between programs, it is often times subtle differences as whether or not the engine uses 29.53 in. Hg. versus 29.92 in. Hg. as a baseline reference for barometric pressure. Other times its confusion regarding the relationship between altitude and pressure. Often users will enter 6300' and 24.32 in. Hg. when it should be 0' and 24.32 in. Hg. Or 29.92 (or 29.53 depending on the engine) or the actual corrected sea level pressure at location and then 6300' elevation. Some software is more clear and dummy proof than others. More often than not, major differences in results between reputable apps is an operator error but there is almost always some minor differences. M

PM inbound

If you want to trim some weight, one of the easiest is to change the firing pin assembly. The factory assemblies are heavy due to the steel bolt shroud. Some aftermarket version are aluminum. You can get some with lighter firing pins and stiffer springs which give you a faster lock time. Stay away from heavy recoil lugs if you're concerned about weight. The 3/16" factory lugs are much lighter and I've never seen an ounce of difference in accuracy. Also, you can install an aluminum scope rail as well as your scope rings. Of course, a scope can add a lot of weight to a rig in a hurry so select a light to medium weight scope. If you can afford it, install a McMillan edge stock. You can even get an A3 or A3 offspring in the lighter edge. That'll shave at least a pound. As far as accuracy enhancement, here are a few items that can help. As stated, I good clean light trigger will help you squeeze off a shot cleaner. Make sure everything is stress free so that nothing is bound up. Items to look for are: box magazine compression. It should have a bit of play when the stock is torqued to the action. Action screws should be torqued to a consistent value each time it has been separated from the action and evenly. The action inlet should be smooth and uniform so that there is no way for the action to see pressure in a concentrated area when torqued to it. Also make sure that the back of the recoil lug is tight to the front of the lug inlet in the stock. Bedding this area helps ensure this and ensures the action always gets installed the same laterally. The scope rail should be straight and not bowed. If it is, it should be bedded. Make sure the crown is sharp. If not, have it re-crowned. Make sure the barrel is free floating. Especially when there is a bipod attached and its sitting on the bench or ground. It helps if you give a slight push forward (this is called loading the bipod) while shooting prone. Believe it or not, 'truing' a 700 action does little if anything to enhance accuracy. 99% of it comes from your barrel. 700s are among the best for being straight and square. Before investing in a custom barrel, work with the one you have. Most barrels will excel with at least one powder. If you find the right powder, it should tolerate a wide variety if bullets. Some stubborn barrels may only digest one or two bullets with a given powder. Be content with less than maximum velocity. With lasers and high BC bullets, you can afford to take accuracy over velocity. I don't have time to get into carbon wrapped barrels but while its a great concept, it's a bad reality. At least IMO. The proccesses often used actually traps the heat. The manufactures of these barrels say they wick heat. They lie. Period. The fibers can conduct heat indavidually but they dont like to transfer from one fiber to another. If you want a lighter barrel, I think a smaller profile is a good option. M

A few years ago I had a very good load worked up using 210M primers. After buying a brick of straight 210s I loaded those up and shot a handful of groups using each one. It did reveal that my extreme spreads were lower with the 210M versus the 210 so I've never looked back between the two. As far as CCI primers, I've fired only a few hundred from 3 different lots years apart and have had quite a few of the standard CCIs not even ignite while I've shot thousands of CCI BR2s I've never had one fail to ignite. As for me, I have decided to use only the top end of what's available by a given manufacture. I use quite a few brands and types of primers. Obviously for different cartridges and powders. 210M, 215M, BR2, 9-1/2, and 205M

All those units hold huge bulls. They key here is glassing. Plenty of country in 23 to get away from the crowds. Late season hunts in AZ can be tough for killing a big bull. Bull don't typically migrate like they do in WY. Winters in AZ aren't cold enough, long enough to keep them up and feeding constantly to survive. The big boys just find thick cover and bed from sun up to sun down. Plus with the ridiculously high bull to cow ratio, there are a lot of busted racks. Especially on the mature bulls that you want.

Excellent! It looks great.

If you haven't already, try posting the barrel on longrangehunting.com in the gun parts classified. Parts move pretty quick there. PS, I got the lug yesterday. Thanks again!