recurveman

Personally I would still keep hunting. I've seen and cleaned way to many animals that have been hit and didn't die. I've even seen some animals hit more than once and have arrows sticking out of them. Animals are a ton tougher than you think. Now if you find the animal a few days later you could consider taging the animal and calling it a hunt. Though I would still probably still hunt depending on the hunt. You have to remember that the game and fish takes all of these things into account. I don't think someone is being a better person for not hunting after they shoot an animal that they didn't find. If you hunt enough it will happen. It is just part of hunting. If it really bothers you then I would consider not hunting. If you think the animal was hit that good then you should be able to find it. There have been VERY FEW animals that I didn't find with in a reasonable amount of time if they were hit fatally. I would say that the number of animals not found that were fatally hit were in the area of less than 2-3%. I've easily tracked well over 200 archery hits. Maybe even more. There are very few times you will loose an animal if it is fatally hit and you track it the best you can. So if you find most I wouldn't consider it dead unless I find it and I would continue to hunt. That is me. I've just seen to many arrows and broadheads in animals that weren't mine when I was cleaning them. Later, recurveman

Did you by chance hit him high in the ribs/lungs? If you did then there is a little gap between the lungs and the backbone where an arrow can be placed and not hit anything vital. I've done it a few times and all I've ended up doing is tracking the animal a long ways and never finding it. The crows will show up in a few days and tell you if the animal is dead or not. You might even want to get up one a nearby hill and look for the crows. The deer might have went a ways before it died. I would think that the animal is probably fine. I haven't seen to many animals go 2 miles and end up dead. I have however seen quite a few deer survive an archery hit and live. They are tough animals and can endure quite a bit. I also believe if you would have hit the liver or anything further back the animal would have bedded down. If he did bed down I hope you didn't push him. Most animals will just lay down and die if they get shot in the guts. Unless they are pushed. Best of luck. If you don't find crows you might still be able to find him. There is a good chance he lived and will resume his normal activities. Later, recurveman

I was up in unit 8 hunting this past weekend and ran across some scrapes. There are 5 scrapes over a length of 800 yards or so down one ridge line. I just kept following the trail and every so often I would find another scrape. I also found quite a few deer rubs too(about 15 or so). Has anybody had any success hunting scrapes in AZ? I've hunted scrapes a ton back in Michigan with some decent success. I'm sure that AZ is different and I'm hoping someone has some ideas or stories to tell. The plan is to sit the scrapes and hope that guy comes back in to clean them out. The scrapes were all real fresh too. The bummer part is I only saw 4 deer in 4 days. I worked my butt off too. Right now the scrapes seem like the best bet to me. Any info would be great!!! Later, recurveman

Lark, I'll go reload a bunch more ammo so I can do plenty of jump shooting. That sounds like more fun. I just hope it doesn't rain so I can see the dust fly on the first box of shells I shoot. I'll get more particular on the second and third box of shells.(Is that considered littering?) What happens if I actually hit one? Then what? the fun is over and the work begins. Later, recurveman

I'm looking at my ballistics and wondering how to judge what 12 inches, 20 inches ect is at a given distance. I know that there are certain measurements that are pretty consisten on a coues and I'm wondering what everyone uses and how reliable it really is. Any help would be great. Thanks, recurveman

jmbn - the start of my post is sighted in for 330 yards. I actually shot the post at 300 but was an couple of inches high. So I got out a ballistics program and figured it to be real close to 330-335. I'm pretty sure that is more accurate than I'm able to shoot. I sighted the gun in for 200. The gap of the post is actually 12 inches at 300. So if I don't have time for a range finder (I shouldn't shoot) then I can use that to find out if it is 300 or further. I think if I see a doe or two I might put the scope on them to see what they look like. I'm sure that they are smaller but I might learn a little in the process. This stuff is pretty new to me but I'm having a ball. Thanks for the info guys and gals. Later, recurveman

I don't think I explained myself as good as I could have. I'm really looking for info on the size of the deer. Then I can figure out where I have to aim. Here is an example. I know that my load shoots 22" low at 450 yards. So if I have a deer at 450 what can I use to estimate 22". If I know the chest is 15" then I can figure out 22" without to much problem. But if the deer is laying down and I can't see the whole chest then what do I use? I'm basically looking for as many measurements of a coues as possible. I've got the whole gun thing pretty down pat but the deer thing is my biggest concern. I guess most of this could be solved by getting closer. I'm a bowhunter at heart and you think I could get closer than 450 yards!!!!!!! Later, recurveman

I think I'm either going to get a bigger gun or a fully auto. Then I can make all the dust I want. Plus the reloading part will be much faster with a full auto. What the heck are you guys talking about with the beanie stuff? Later, recurveman - off to the gun store to buy a cannon

I sure hope that a spike doesn't walk by me the first day. I would be tempted to shoot it. I just hope a monster shows up first thing so I can say I was trophy hunting. That is great you got a buck!!!!! My first deer was back in Michigan when I was 10 and it was really small. Much smaller than your spike. But I was very excited about it at the time. Later, recurveman

I think it all depends. There are units I hunt where I see 20-40 deer a day. Then there are units where I see a ton less. The one thing I find interesting is the time of day. I have to say I see most of my critters after 9:00 or so. There are times in December/January where I stuggle to find deer until 10:00 in the morning. I actually don't think I need to be on top of the hill at first light. I'm still on top at light but I wonder why sometimes. I really think the rut picks up in the late morning. I have a unit 8 late WT tag. I don't expect to see double digits amounts of deer each day. If I actually see over ten a day I will be happy. I just hope one of them is huge. Later, recurveman

There sure are some interesting changes there in the tag fee's. I'm just wondering if the early bull is just for rifle or is that archery too? I personally don't care but a jump to 350 is quite a bit for an archery tag. I really hope that the game and fish figure out this whole USO thing. Later, recurveman

Scottyboy - do you shave your brit down or is it just a pup? I've seen a few britts shaved down and want to do that to mine. I think it would be really nice for the summer and keeping all the burrs off of them during the hunt. Thanks for the info. I can hardly wait until the season starts for mearns. Later, recurveman

B&C (boone and crocket) recognizes ML too. It isn't a seperate category but you can still stick it in the book if it is 110" or bigger. I had a buddy that found a lion kill mule deer a couple of years ago. It grossed over 200 and netted right at 200. He entered it into B&C. You don't even have to kill the animal to put it into B&C. It just has to have it's skull intact. I'm sure someone else will know if there is an exact ML book. Later, recurveman

arizgriz - It is really tough to get pope and young to put an animal in their book when you take a pic of it with the rifle leaning up against the animal. At least bring a bow along.....Bowhunting in AZ is pretty much going to be the same way. Though it will go nicely in B&C for sure. Personally, I WOULD HAVE PASSED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm serious. I would have been certain that was a mule deer. Look at how tall that rack is. Just incredible. I would have looked at that and thought for sure it couldn't have been a whitetail. Then once I figured it out then I would have taken a shot and scared him to the next hunter. Great buck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Later, recurveman

I would have to shoot the cat. That is a no brainer. The bucks will be there for another day but the cats are a true once in a lifetime trophy in my book. Plus, just think of all the deer you just saved by shooting that one cat. The only down side to shooting the cat is you are going to increase your taxidermy bill. I would really think hard about getting a cat lifesized if I shot it without dogs. My wife might shoot me but I would want that thing full size in my house somewhere. Later, recurveman

The only bummer part about hunting in January is the rut. It is such a double edged sword. It is great to get them up and moving. I love to get them just a little dumber too. But I believe that they will tend to move a little out of their area to find the women. If there is another buck in the area he might push him out too. Either way the buck will show up eventually in the same area. The fun part is trying to find him all over again. Later, recurveman

Well if you get one you can invite everyone from this board over to your place for a little pussy.......cat that is. I have to say I'll be the first in line. Later, recurveman

There are many rounds that are flatter shooting than the .243. It is nice and flat but I have a 300 weatherby that is flatter. The 7MMSTW is flatter too. Basically you can lump most of the rounds in the same category. .270, 30-06, 308, .243, 25-06, ect. Any of your high power rounds are all about the same as far as trajectory. They will all drop about the same. Except for a few that are flatter. Not a ton flatter but they are flatter shooting. He is another thing to consider. I own a 300 weatherby and a .243. I choose to hunt with the .243 for couse. Not because it is flatter shooting but it is lighter to carry and is more accurate to shoot. Most of the "magnums" do shoot flatter but you pay the price. They kick more and quite often they don't shoot as accurate. If I could get my 300 to shoot as good as my .243 I would shoot that instead. If you want to look at all the ballistics go to the ammo sites (ie, remmington, federal and winchester) They have some cool stuff where you can compare ammo of different calibers. You will see that the .243 is not even close to the flattest shooting round. Look at the .338 weatherby. Then you will see a flat shooting round. But I'm pretty sure I'm not man enough to pull the trigger. Well at I doubt I would do it twice. Later, recurveman

I've bought a lion tag every year for over a decade. I wouldn't go hunting without it. I've seen 4 cats in this state. Unfortunately I've never had a gun in my hand when I've seen them. It seems that they know I'm bow hunting when they come around. It is true about seeing cats anywhere in the state. I've seen them in the desert and the pines. They are everywhere. Please shoot one for me if you get the chance. Save a deer.....shoot a lion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! recurveman Now I'm one of those tree huggers

Me and a buddy have the same tag. There are deer up there but they are few and far between. There are many other december hunts that would be a ton easier than this hunt. I've seen a few deer up in the pines this year but I haven't even looked down low. I'm hoping that I don't have to. I was going to start scouting again when the hunts were over. I think that will give me the best idea of where they are going to be during the hunt. I'm really hoping for some snow. That would really help locate the animals. It might also push them into one area. I really don't expect the deer to move that much. Even if it does snow. It seems like whitetails are more likely to stay in the same area. Good luck on your hunt. I think we are both going to need a little luck and a bunch of time behind or binos looking for those little brats. Here is a little hint. You probably aren't going to see many WT's if you are more than a mile from a canyon edge. Every WT I've seen up in those units has always been close to a canyon. Now I'm sure there are spots where they aren't close but I have never found them. Hopefully that will help. I pretty much know where I'm going to be hunting but I'm just as tigh lipped as those other people. later, recurveman

I don't think the quality of the deer harvested is as important as the quantity of the deer harvested. Think of it this way. If everyone didn't shoot spikes but shot the bigger deer then what would be left for next year? The spikes of this year. So everyone would go out and shoot a bigger deer and leave the spikes for next year. You really don't let the medium size deer grow up. You actually hurt the chances of shooting a larger deer. There was a study done in the 3bar area in 23 quite a few years ago. Where they were allowed to shoot any antlered deer. The success rate was X. The hunters shot any and all antlered deer. Then another period of time the hunters were allowed to shoot only 3 points or bigger. The success rate was the same. The only thing that changed is there were less bigger deer in the area for the next year. So if you want people to not shoot the spikes then be ready for them to shoot your larger deer so they aren't going to be around for next year. I'm all for shooting spikes. Whack them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here is another thing that kills me. Let them get big so they are better breeders. What a bunch of crap. First off we all shoot the biggest one we can find. So if we really believed that then shouldn't we shoot the smaller one or the one that has a deformed rack? The next thing that cracks me up is people think that the smaller deer don't have good genes. Only the big ones do. What a joke. The buck is "throwing" the same genes no matter what age he is. If he is a spike his offspring will have the same genetics. You never know. That spike could be the new world record or a fuddy duddy. It just depends on his daddy one mommy. I say shoot the spikes, shoot the big ones and eat them all. Later, recurveman

I would lean towards a 300 or a 7MM. I think I would go for the 7MM. It seems to kick a little less than the 300's and really reaches out there. I'm more of a fan of the .243, 25-06 or .270 but I think you would be happier shooting an elk with a 7MM. No matter what gun you choose you better hurry. You have a ton of work to do. Scope, ammo, range time, ect. You only have a few weeks left. Later, recurveman

I would guess that buck at 16 inch spread (inside) and would net it out at about 95 or so. I could be way off on this though. I haven't had nearly as much experience at scoring WT as I have elk. It could score a ton more but I would be really surprised if it scored less than 95. I'm sure someone with more experience than me can come much closer. Later, recurveman

If that is as big as you guys think then some of the bulls I saw last year hunting were in the 450's plus. I saw three bulls last year that make this boy look like a boy. 50" on the main beams is not good at all. A good bull will have main beams in the mid to upper 50's. I've got a bull in my back room right now that scored 340 and had 62" main beams. I think it would be really tough for this bull to score well just for the fact that it is loosing an easy 15 to 20 inches just on the main beams. Not to mention I don't think the point lenght is as good as it looks. I guess I'm also one of those guys that scores things low. I hate guessing high. Plus I've just seen way to many animals start to "shrink" once that first measurement was taken. I can guarantee that bulls doesn't gross 400. Not even close. But with that said I think it is a great looking bull. I might even shoot it if given the chance. Later, Recurveman

I'd like to put a tape on that head. I don't think it would score nearly as good as you guys think. If you look at the left side it would be about a normal 330 bull or so. It might not even be that much. The main beams are VERY short. Then the right side is kind of cool but it still has the 330 frame with quite a few inches of junk (which I just love). The spread is OK but nothing great. All in all I would put that bull at 350 gross. Maybe a bit more but not much. I think the junk throws you for a loop. Don't get me wrong. I would clean it up and put it on my wall in a heart beat. I think you would have to add a counter balance of some sort so it didn't lean to one side. Later, recurveman