recurveman

According to who? Rains have been below average this year so unless they just had a magical season nothing should be above average. Problem is who decides what average is? Every year no matter what there's monsters that get killed. Well according to me and the pictures I've seen on trial cams this year I think antler growth is good to great this year. Wish I could put pictures of them up but not before the season. I've been up in my unit the better part of 30 days already this year looking around and doing the scouting thing. Obviously the elk are just starting to finish out so you couldn't really tell how big all of the elk were going to be. Though some haven't grown much in the last 4 weeks. But........some are still piling on inches!!!!! The moisture was crazy up in the north country during the spring. Turkey season was so wet that it was a struggle to even get a trailer into camp. Absolutely crazy. The grass was as green as I've seen up there in years and years. Actually the grass was tall and green all summer and now with the rain it will get even better. The winter wasn't brutal and they went into the spring happy and healthy. Pretty sure that will make for above average antler growth. The pics I've got back up what I think should happen. I've got about a couple more trips up there before labor day and plan on spending the two weeks prior to the seaon and the entire season (if needed) finding a good bull. Time will tell but I think guys will be happy with the growth this year.

I would say the bulls are well above average this year and we will see some big bulls hit the dirt.

I just shot a coues deer at 400 yards with my 6.5X284 shooting a 140 grain berger VLD. I hit the deer right behind the shoulder exactly where you would want to hit it. The deer stood there for about 20 seconds and went down. We went over to the deer about 15 minutes later and it was still alive and took off running. Then I got to practice with my glock 22 for a few shots. Needless to say I was not very happy with the performance on a small deer. I really think the bullet would have done fine if I would have hit bone or more tissue. Normally I shoot 90 balistictips out of my .243 and that deer would have dropped in its tracks with that combination. I really want to hear about more experiences with shooting smaller critters with the berger bullets. I've got 500 of them and they shoot REALLY accurate and would like to continue to shoot them.

Look at the map that someone provided in a previous post. That will give you a good idea of the boundry line. There are signs that tell you what is closed and what is open. If I remember correctly there is a road that on the south side you can't hunt and on the north side you can hunt.

I can see you are in need of my help. Just let me know when you would like to go set up cams where those monster bucks are at and I'll help you out with all of the detials. I'll even bring my rifle. Later, recurveman

So what is the black thing? In the second pic it looks like a bear but in the third pic I have no idea what that is. Not sure if there really is anything in the first pic. Later, recurveman

That would have been a great place for some running water!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I bet cleaning him was an adventure for sure. I've cleaned a few that were covered in different things and they are always interesting. Nice bull. Later, recurveman

oldboar - here is my take on scent. I also grew up in the midwest hunting WT's. They are much more sensitive to scent than elk. It isn't even close. A WT deer won't walk across your scent trail and an elk normally doen't care. I've seen elk walk through my scent more than once. I've seen them stop, smell me, and know that I'm a bad thing and get spooky but in the end they walked through it. I've also seen them run like mad the other direction. An midwest WT hits your scent and is gone. They don't ask why. They don't care and they won't be seen again for awhile. That is just how it works. Now as far as busting into them. Sometimes it is OK to go at them agressively and not worry about your scent as much. I've seen times when you could have walked up to them with a spear and just stabbed them. They can get super, super stupid. If they get to concentrating on another bull or fighting or thining about that someone special then things can happen. As a rule though I wouldn't expect it to work very often. Normally if you get upwind you are going to bust them and have to chase them some more and try again. I told my buddy it is the "1/2 mile penalty". Basically they go about a half a mile and settle down again. So you have to chase them for that long and you better be in a better position. Now my favorite. This scent control/clothing/cover scent stuff. I put it all in one package because they are selling something to a hunter and making really good money from it too. No matter what you do they are going to smell you PERIOD. If my dogs can smell a bird from 20-50 yards away I'm sure that a human (after walking a mile or two and sweating the whole way) will put off enough odor for an elk to smell. Oh and the cover up scents........If I cook a pizza and let out some super strong gas.....ya know what you are going to smell? Yep you are going to smell a pizza and the scent bomb I just laid on ya. I'm sure that an elk/deer/ dog can smell more than one thing. All the cover up stuff does is create another smell for them. So that is my take on scent. Don't let them smell you because you WILL smell no matter what you do. Later, recurveman

I've got that bull at 365 Max. It is nice everywhere. Doesn't have great 5ths and a touch short on the main beams and a little narrow for his class of bull. Super cool video for sure except for the missing part. Here is a little advice. When you are calling/stalking elk. Figure out what you max kill range is with your top pin. I knew I was good out to almost 50 yards with my top pin if I put it in the middle of the bull when I was out calling. So if it was under 50 yards or so I just had to pull back and aim. If it was past 50 I better take some time and range find it. Here is a bull that died and grossed (by two official P&Y scorers in camp) 346. The bull in the video is quite a bit bigger than this one in my opinion. Later, recurveman

Something will happen in regards to the cameras. I had over 10 of them out and learned a bunch. I'm not sure that they are a bad thing for scouting but I would kind of like to see them gone during the hunt. I was unhappy to see a bunch of people coming into places my buddies wanted to sit. They were leaving all kinds of scent and it was like a circus all day going to that water hole. Heck it was a good walk back into where the water hole was at and the trail into it was just about worn out by the 3rd day of the hunt. Something will change. Not sure when or what will happen but I'm guessing somethng will change. Later, recurveman

I just got done with my unit 9 elk hunt. I've been hunting there for the better part of 20 years or so and man have things changed. There used to be 5 stands on every piece of water and now there are that many cams. I'm not a person that sits water very often but after 7 days of going hard I decided to sit some water where my buddy had a stand. There were 4 cameras on the water. 3 had flashes and mine was IR. That evening the elk started coming in as it was getting darker and it was like a Las Vegas show. The flashes were going off. Elk were here and then they were over there.....more flashes. It was driving me crazy. I didn't even think of that when I got up in my stand. I hadn't ever been around that many cameras before. That evening I got lucky and didn't see anything that I wanted to shoot. The next night when I showed up I made sure the cameras wouldn't go flash. I didn't destroy the cameras and put them back as they were after my hunt but I just didin't want my elk hunt to look like another Las Vegas show. It is just to crazy for me. I've also seen a ton of the running on my cameras as another camera goes flash. There are times when it scares the living crap out of them and other times when they just don't care. Once you get a week into a hunt they tend to get a bit more spooky and I didn't think the flash was a good idea at that time. Now as far as you taking the "high road"......well you didn't take the "high road". Now with that said I might have not been as nice as you were but the high road was something different than what you did. It drives me crazy when people mess with my stuff. There really is plenty of room for everyone to hunt and it just seems crazy to ruin/steal others stuff. If I was that guy sitting that blind I would have made it so that your camera didn't work when I was hunting that spot and put it back into operating condition when I left the blind. I think that is only fair and I think most camera owners can live with that point of view. I feel your pain. I've always been amazed at how people will fight over a water hole. I always remind them that they don't know what is coming into the tank. If a cow and a spike comes into the tank that night was it worth the fist fight? Probably not unless you are really starving and if that is the case by all means shoot him and put him on the grill. Next thing ya know the game and fish will be taking everyones cameras........but that is another story. Later, recurveman

I've done that type of calling before. The only reason I did it was because there was a steep canyon and the heard bull and cows went down it and my buddy that is not in good shape wasn't going down that canyon. Basically we had nothnig to loose. I called crazy for about 10 minutes. My buddies looked at me like I lost my mind. UNTIL the bulls started walking by at less than 20 yards. I forget how many bulls came in but it was a few. The heard bulls stayed with his cows but the little bulls came to investigate. If I was on my first elk hunt I would try and sit water, salt, trails, ect. That is by far your best shot. Having an elk coming in like that can be a bit tricky to kill. Remember that they are very, very alert and looking at the noise. Pulling back and shooting them can be a challenge at times. Sitting water really works this time of year. That is why everyone does it. I suppose a rifle and a spotlight works too but they frown on that. Later, recurveman

What size elk are you looking to kill and what do you think he scores. I've got one of those tags too this year and he wouldn't be a first week shooter in my book. Though my buddy would shoot him in a second. Keep in mind that most of the hunters out there will never see a bull that big and most will never even think about shooting one that size. We are spoiled in AZ. Later, recurveman

I think he is bigger than everyone here thinks. I would put him about 20 inches bigger than most. He has really nice thirds. His main beams are pretty long. I would think he is at least 330 and could be bigger. I would have to get a better look. Later, recurveman

I want to take one of these long range shots. The only problem is I'm to good of a hunter to get that far away from the animal. I was so excited last year when I finally got to shoot an animal at 250 yards. It was the first time I actually got to shoot past 80 yards at an animal. Though I have to say I was a little bummed. I spent days and days at the range and then in the field shooting in all types of positions, at all types of distances, and all types of wind conditions. I was really hoping to shoot a really long shot and see if all my practice payed off. I could have shot the deer at 200 but I thought it would be fun to let it get out as far as possible. BTW. The bart moon job was kind of cool. Later, recurveman--hoping for a 500 yard shot this year.....please no wind.

I love my .243. I would think that a .223 would be a good choice too. You can get rounds for the .243 that are really light. You can also get rounds that have a bit more kick too. I think the .243 would be a good gun for him to grow into. Me and my wife have shot so many things with the .243 it isn't even funny. Mulies, couse, eastern white tails, elk, axis deer, pigs, ect. That round has really impressed me. I've got a walmart .243 adl in black with a synthetic stock. I think they cost a little under 400 and are worth every penny. Later, recurveman

I've got a .243 loaded pretty hot with a 90gr ballistic tip. I also have a 300 weatheryby mag that shoots real accutate too. The 300 stayed in camp while the .243 went hunting. Why? The .243 is more fun to shoot. Most people have WAY more rifle than they need. The difference between my 300 and .243 (as far as trajectory is concerned) is very little. With the ballisticplex in my burris it really doesn't matter how flat my gun shoots. I know where the bullet hits at each crosshair. As long as I know the distance(lieca rangefinder) and shoot a good shot the critter has little chance. I really think that the bigger guns are a huge disadvantage when it comes to actually knocking the deer over. In TX I shot a .308 with 180 partitions and my wife shot the .243 with 90 gr ballistic tips. Every animal I shot with the .308 ran away. My wife shot 5 animals (these are couse sized critters too) and 4 droped in their tracks and one dropped in a few yards. All of the energy of the .243 went into the deer while most of the energy of the .308 went through the animal. Just remember that there are a ton of animals killed with bows that have less that 60 pounds of KE. The bullets we are shooting have hundres of pound of KE if not thousands of pounds of KE. In theory I really think the .257 weatherby would be the perfect round for deer sized animals. I don't own one and haven't shot one yet but I would really like to explore that cartridge. Later, recurveman

There are 4 stages to hunting and everyone is at a different stage. Stage 1 - Your only goal is to kill something. Except time. You want a gut pile period. Stage 2 - You want to kill ALOT of something. Killing is the only goal. Stage 3 - You want to kill a BIG something. The trophy is the only result you will settle for. Stage 4 - You just want to enjoy the scenery. Sometimes it isn't the hunt or kill that you are actually after. What stage are you at? Personally I'm at all stages depending on what hunt I'm on and what species I'm hunting. This could be applied to other parts of your life. Kind of reminds me of my teenage years. Later, Recurveman

I personally lean more towards cousehunter84. I think any buck is OK to shoot. I find it hard to think about calling a 70 inch buck small. that would be like calling a 130" eastern whitetail and a 150 inch carp a small buck. I don't know to many people that are going to pass those bucks. Then again you are talking to the wrong person. The last 2 years I've shot 4pt bucks (including eye guards). It wasn't because I was looking for that buck. I was just looking for A buck. These bucks were just the unlucky ones. I find it difficult to judge a bucks size when I'm pulling the trigger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think alot of what you consider "big" has to do with experience. I haven't shot many coues deer. Heck I'm happy to just get one. Now on the other hand I have passed many 360-370" bulls and never even thought about shooting them. Why? Because I think of them as your 80" buck. Then again when you have much bigger already hanging on the wall you have hopes of finding something even bigger. It is all perspective and everyone's is a little different. Next year......nothing under 90".......unless that spike walks by......it would be tough for me to pass that little buck. Later, recurveman

Well this isn't the year for my backpack trip but I did think I should get way off of the road. I found a spot that was back in about 1.3 miles and was a solid hour and fifteen minutes walk from the truck. I got up at 3:30 and left for my morning hike. The hike started about 4:15 and ended a little after 5:30. I wanted to make sure I got to my spot before sunup. I found a tree and sat there waiting for first light. It was kind of cool seeing all the people in their vehicles driving to their spots down all the roads. I just sat their thinking they were already behind the 8 ball. I glassed hard for awhile and then just sat there watching while eating a bagel. About 9:00 I saw 3 deer in the distance. I pulled up my range finder and saw that two of them were bucks(both small 3pts with eye guards) and they were heading my way on the ridge across the canyon. I figured they would come closer and I didn't think there was anybody around me so I figured I would let them get to an easier spot to get them before I shot. This poor buck finally stopped at 250 yds. and that was all it took. I smacked him(or at least I thought I did). I got my scope back on the group of deer and saw what I thought was blood and a good hit on the opposite side of the deer. Then my bipod fell off of the rock. I got my scope back on the deer and all I saw was a buck and it didn't look like it was hit. I figued I shot the other buck and didn't need to shoot 2 bucks with only one tag. I watched the doe and buck walk away without the other buck and figured I hit the buck for sure and I hoped it was a good hit. After a long walk over there (I'm pretty sure it was just as far down as it was across) I found my buck and the fun began. He was a little 3 pt with eye guards. I figure he will score around 70 or so. Not a monster but I would have shot a spike it he walked by first. Next year I'm looking for something much bigger. I took pics but didn't finish the role. I've got a few more hunts this month and will put pics up when I get done with the other hunts. I quarted/half deboned the deer and put it in my pack. I really needed a better pack. I didn't realize how bad my pack was going to be when I had that much weight in it. Next year I will get a nice pack frame system of some sort and be much happier. Here are the things I learned. 1. You are not trophy hunting when you "field judge" your buck through your rangefinder. Then finish your "field judging" through your scope as your are clicking your safety off. The buck is going to get shot. 2. Sometimes it is better to let the deer walk to an area that is actually possible to get to before you shoot them. 3. When you are hunting a long ways from the road you should know that a smaller buck weighs just as much as the big ones. Shoot a bigger buck. The walk out won't be as hard. 4. There isn't much meat on a buck but it sure does weigh a ton after a few hours carrying out on your shoulders. 5. Make sure you have a pack that is very comfortable when loaded down with a deer. You will be much happier than me. 6. When you have two bucks that look exactly the same you better just shoot once and make it a good shot. It is really tough to tell which buck is shot and you don't need two bucks. There will be another hunter watching you. 7. It's cool to only hear shots in the direction of the road. You pretty much know that you are deeper in than other hunters. Next year.......nothing less than 130.......or maybe a big spike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Later, recurveman

I follow NASCAR very closely. I could probably name most crew chiefs, car owners, make of car, ect. I'm pretty much a nut. With that said I'm not sure it would even be a thought on what to do. I would be hunting with no questions asked. It is that simple. If you are a NASCAR nut you could always get the XM radio and bring it on your hunt. I listened to the Busch race on the way home today. Later, recurveman

I'm getting ready for my 36B Nov hunt and I'm going to a new area for me. Basically between Sycamore Canyon and Summit motorway. I'm looking at a few spots that are back in a little but I can't decide which one to start out at. I'm wondering how far you would think you need to go to get rid of the hunters. I've got a few spots that are just over a mile off the road, one spot at about 1.5 miles and another at 2.2 miles. I'll walk as far as needed but I'm wondering if anybody actually has better luck when they go more than a mile off of the road. I've never hunted this area before and I'm wondering what others have experienced. I would think that the deer would probably be much calmer once you hit a mile back in. I don't know if the added distace is just wearing out shoe leather or actually worth the effort. I'm actually going to be surprised if I see many hunters back in a mile too. I'm sure that a few will wander but I doubt that many will get more than 1/2 mile back in. Just think how many hunters wouldn't go a mile off of the road without a GPS. I was kind of bummed when they came out with that gadget. Thanks for the info. Later, recurveman - I think more than a mile is a long ways to go for a spike!!!!!!!

I'm not the biggest fan of the backpack thing. I think overnight would be fine but 3-4 days would probably get to me. I won't have a problem doing a little more walking but I like the comfort of a nice meal and a soft warm bed. I do plan on being where I need to be at day break. I think that is a must. If that means I get up a ton earlier and hike in the dark then I'm OK with that. I just don't know if I would be a big fan of a small camp 5 miles back in. I've done it before when I was bear hunting but I'm not as excited about it now that I've done it a few times. Later, recurveman

Ya know I never really thought about where to put the tag. I just always put it on the antlers or horns. I hate putting it on the antlers when I'm taking pics. Normally I will take a few pics without the tag and then some with the tag on. But I think from now on I'm just going to put the tag through the leg and be done with it. That takes care of my picture taking issues. Later, recurveman

I'm just going to walk to Mexico and wait for a big deer to cross the fence. Then I'm going to whack him. Maybe I'll wait for a forky if I'm going to walk that far. Later, recurveman