recurveman

Well I'm probably one of the rare guys that spends a bit to much time in the dirt. Last year I put around 400-500 rounds down the tube of a hunting rifle. Most of my shots are 100 yards for load development and then off to 500-1000 yards. Probably shot over half the shots at 500-600 yards and have a system that will tell me exactly where each bullet hits as it hits. I think that is a great distance to learn at with a hunting rifle. I also like to take my rifle on trips around the state and shoot in different locations. Last year I shot up in the Flagstaff area, White Mountains, down south and around the phoenix area. Each location and setup will teach you something differnet about you and your gun. Put the sun in your face as it just comes over the trees and see what happens. Just like when hunting CWT deer. It's been my experience that if you have a good chronograph and know your speeds (and your extreme spread) and the published BC is correct then you will hit your target at any know distance with the trajectory apps on the market. I have found some bullets that don't report accurate BC's and they normally get called out pretty quick. Nosler is great at saying the bullets BC is way better than actual. I do verify all BC's and loads out to 1000 yards before I take them in the field. Last year I finished off a guys CWT in Mexico at 964 yards with back to back hits. That doesn't get done by accident. Shot my deer this year at 813 yards. Also shot a deer in AZ at 75 yards. Just depends on the day and conditions. Now for practical hunting distances (0-500 yards) I don't think velocity, BC and elevations play a huge part in killing an animal. For the most part a scope with a BDC as part of the reticle will get the job done. That would drive me crazy but it can be very practical for the average hunter. Out past 500 yards everything changes and changes dramatically. None of it is hard to learn but it does take time and people do need to dent primers in order to learn it. I had a buddies kid shooting my gun out at 1000 yards last spring and I was calling the wind for him. He was just crushing it and was really surprised at how far off I was telling him to aim off from shot to shot depending on the conditions. I think he was learning quite a bit because I would tell him why he was aiming off and was teaching him how to notice the differences in conditions. That is only learned from busting primers.

TTT

Honestly the key to calling in a lion is being where they are at. I wouldn't expect to call in a lion unless there was one in the area. It's like every other type of hunting. Looking for sign, tracks, cam pics, ect. The lion I did kill I told my buddy that I was going to kill that lion in a few hours (he thought I was nuts) but I knew it was in the area very recently. I would spend some time finding an area that normally holds lions and then figure them out. I've got an area that I really, really like for lions. I'm sure that there are other places that have more lions too. I'm not a lion expert but I think a call to the game and fish would help you figure out where the lions are the most populated. I would focus on those areas. The area I like has lions year after year. I will go and set my call in about the same place because I know that there are lions in the area for sure. Sometimes there are many lions in a area. I use a boss dog calling machine and a fluffy tail thingy. Nothing special. Normally I use a jack rabbit distress call. I've used others depending on what I'm seeing. If I don't see Jack rabbits but I'm seeing a bunch of cottontails then I mix it up. If it is calving season for the elk or the deer are dropping fawns I will mix it up and use those sounds. I bet a lion isn't expecting to see a hunter when they hear a fawn in distress!!!!!!

I've killed one lion. I've had 5 other "encounters". One came into the call because I could see the tracks as I left the stand. He came in down wind about 20 yards from where I was sitting. That cat should have died that day. That day I learned that you need to be looking down wind!!!!!! If not you won't be seeing the cat. Another time I called in an area and heard some really, really weird noises. Never heard them before and haven't heard them since. That afternoon (maybe 4 hours later) I have a pic of 4 cats sitting at the tank drinking for the better part of 15 minutes. Close but no cigar on that one. Next encounter I called again and nothing came into the call. I made a call on Saturday evening and it was about 300 yards from a tank where I had a camera. I stopped calling around 7;30PM and I had pics of the cat at the tank at 7:51 when I came back and checked out the camera. Well that cat for sure came into the call and I just didn't see it. Close again but no cigar. Called in another Lion that I thought might eat me. It was pissed and making noises that scared the crap out of me. Made the noises "roar" for the better part of 10 minutes but it was super, super thick and I couldn't get close enough to kill it. Probably a female that was protecting its young. Lion I did kill came flying into the call at about 10 minutes. I was flanking the call instead of being down wind (will never sit down wind again). When it came in I remember telling myself to enjoy the moment because it only happens every so often. Now shoot the lion. Shot it at 100 yards. It was on a very brisk walk and I hit it right behind the shoulder with my .243. Cat went about 100 yards and died with no blood trail. I was lucky that it rained the day before and the ground was super soft and mostly dirt. I tracked it by its track and nothing else. After skinning the animal I've decided that I will be using a bigger gun. They are super strong critters. They aren't built like deer and elk. Their legs and bodies are solid muscle and are killing machines. I will be putting more energy into the next lion I shoot. Lions are probably easier to call in than people think. I believe you kind of need to target lions if you want to kill lions. They are different that dogs for sure.

Dr.308. I think I understand what you are saying. He has a scope that has a reticle that has hash marks and he knows what those mark represent. So should he use the hash marks to add 12 MOA to his dope or should he dial 12MOA? I've done both and I've also verified that the hash marks in my scope are actually what they say they should be out to 1000 yards. Personally I would dial. In regards to the colder temps and increased elevation "canceling" each other out I think is INSANE. They don't cancel each other out. I just ran my dope for my gun shooting in the valley at 70 degrees and then shooting in Flagstaff at 20 degrees. At 1000 yards there is a 1.5 MOA difference. That works out to 15" and a complete miss on any animal in the state. Now the difference probably ins't a big enough deal from 100-400 yards but after that it will cause you to miss critters. Goats and whitetails are really easy to miss. So this is what I do. First you have to know your speed from shot to shot and it needs to be less than 15 FPS over a 10 shot string. Less would be even better. Then I zero my gun at 200 yards and set my zero at that distance. Then I run my dope for the elevation where I will be hunting and take a guess and a normal temp. Probably between 45-65 degrees (temp can change your point of impact too but normally you will know a tight range of temps before you leave. I rarely hunt when it is zero or 95 degrees outside). Then after I run my dope I make my chart going out to 1000 yards and tape it on my gun. The two externals that affect the point of impact the greatest are the elevation and angle of the shot. A steep up or down hill will change your dope dramatically. I've never really had to deal with a huge change in elevation for a hunting shot at long range but it could happen.

I've got a buddy that has a tag and he said getting in right now is a bit of an issue.

Your gun and caliber are fine. It's the connection between the rifle and the ground that is typically the issue.

Don't do it!!!!!!! Got the same bow and it is the most awesome bow ever. Quiet, fast and accurate

I just use one phone and download ON-X maps and done. Not sure there would be an advantage to using two phones instead of one. No need to over think this one.

I also have a $100 hit for my kids youth hunt. What unit did you apply for? I put in for unit 9

I'm not about a pissing match either. Everyone can do as they wish. I honestly couldn't eat meat that I didn't clean myself. Lead scares me a ton less than having a processor clean my meat. I've seen how some of the meat comes back from some processors and I couldn't do it. Me and the wife can clean a deer in less time than it takes to bring the meat to a processor......and go pick it back up. Right on our kitchen counter. I'm more worried about not getting back my same meat, lots of hair in the meat, ect. That is a much bigger concern to me.

so shooting animals that are lighter I always like a bullet to fragment and dump the energy into the critter. I've seen bullets that don't really expand well on smaller animals and it can create an issue depending on the circumstances. Dropping in their tracks is almost always a good thing. When shooting bigger critters I like a bullet that will stay together to allow for extreme penetration. So on elk I would think about a Nosler Partition and deer maybe a nosler BT. Doesn't have to be that brand but the bullet construction is the key to look at.

Do you clean your own animals?

Well my experiences with lead in the meat is very different than what has been experienced by others. I process 100% of my own meat over the last 40 years (probably 200 - 300 cleaned animals) and at no point in time have I ever got a piece of lead (or any foreign substance) in my meat at the table. If done by a person that is competent in the process of cleaning meat then you will never get a piece of meat with a fragment in it. When a fragment goes through the meat it leaves a very obvious spot where it travels. Loosing meat is going to be part of the deal regardless of what type of bullet (or arrow) you use. I've seen different shots cause very different damage while using the same bullet. There really isn't a one size fits all when it comes to how a bullet will react upon impact. Frequently the meat around the impact will not be edible (in my book) just from the blood clotting due to a massive tissue damage. If you put a bullet through the front shoulder of a critter typically you won't get much meat off of the shoulder. In all reality most shoulders on a deer won't provide much meat anyways. Elk will give more but probably not as much as you think. If you put a bullet behind the shoulder and don't hit the shoulder on the opposite side typically all the meat will be in good shape. If you are hunting big game and are really worried about saving as much meat as possible then shoot it in the head. They will drop like a rock and you will loose zero meat.

So I have a tikka .308 that has a 22” barrel. I shoot the 178 grain ELD-X down the tube. Get a lab radar 2725 FPS out of the barrel. I think I could push it more but that is where I ended up. Didn’t try RL powders but I think I could get more velocity if needed. got a 6.5 x 284 with a 22” barrel that I get a chronographed speed of 2910. Again I could do more and I use 4831 in this cartridge with a 143 grain ELDX. my experience with shorter barrels has been great. Shooting a short barrel is fine. For hunting we need speed, balance, manageable weight and accuracy. Speed is only part of the equation. I also haven’t noticed a decrease in accuracy. Gun still shoots really, really tight groups out to a G.

I have a BTX with a 65 objective. I love mine. You need the right country for them to be useful. I think they really shine from 1200 yards and beyond. Also do well for determining if the critter is something you want to kill at a longer range. There is an adjustment period to get used to them. Getting used to them being angled is quite interesting. Actually locating game and going from 15's to the BTX does take a bit to get used to but now I love them. Probably spent close to 30 days behind the BTX's this fall and they are a must have (after a set of 10's and 15's) if you want to look at longer distances. If weight isn't an issue then I would get the 85 or 95 objective instead of the 65.

This has also been my exact experience. My LR rifle is 9.2#'s and my mountain rifle is 7#. One is good to a grand and the other is good to maybe 600 yards depending on rest and heart rate.

The scope I have is pretty easy to get back to zero. I do however check the gun every time it comes out of the case to make sure that it is at zero. If I'm out for the day I check it WAY to much. Would be great to be able to lock the turret in place. I now understand the illumination. I've had a few times in the past couple years where I would have the scope turned down really low to gather light better. Luckily it was with a different scope that wasn't a FFP scope and I could see the crosshairs just fine. I have struggled with seeing crosshairs before during normal conditions on really low power. Very interesting.

Well that is cool. Probably a young male. I would expect a female to have kittens with her. Get a tag and try to make it happen. They typically don't travel long distances all at once but can have a bigger range. When I target lions I like to know that a lion is in the area before I start calling. You have a prime candidate there.

I run a 22 degree Katabatic quilt and a thermorest pad. It will get me down to an honest 22 degrees too. I've slept in the 20's a few times and been fine. I like a quilt over a mummy bag because of the restriction. Frequently I'll put my puffy jacket on and might have an arm hanging out of the quilt. Not a big deal but I can't take a mummy bag. Typically the quilts are a bit lighter too. As you know everything with down comes with the associated price tag. I custom ordered mine in a wide so it had a few more inches or material.......maybe because I have a few more inches around my middle section.....

So I get why you would want a zero lock and locking turret as "must haves". Why is illumination a "must have"? I am also more of a hunter than shooter and I've never had an illuminated scope and just wondering the advantage that it plays. Thanks,

I'm not against any brand scope. Just looking for a really awesome top end scope. I've shot NF before and I think it could be argued that NF is considered the top scope by many of the competitors on the shooting line. Very reliable and great glass. I do have to say that I shot the bench rest model and didn't think the glass quality was as good as others I've looked through since.

WOW!!! Well thanks for giving me about 10 hours of research to do this weekend. Lots of glass there that I didn't know existed. Very interesting. Do you think the bigger 36MM tube gets you brighter images? Does it work better in low light? Can you get the custom turrets for any of these if you just want to dial up the yardage and go bang in a known setting? Do you feel that 15 power is enough for 1000 yards? I know the quality of the glass can make a huge difference so I'm just curious. I'm a fan of magnification but at some point (about 25 power) it becomes really hard to keep steady in field conditions.

I've had both FFP and SFP scopes. Probably would want a FFP scope. I'm an MOA guy. Probably wouldn't shoot more than 1000 yards unless I'm going to screw around and get crazy but that would be rare and probably only for fun. Most of my shooting is in the 300-800 yard range when I develop loads and practice. Got a BAT machine 6.5 X 284 with a 22" brux barrel pushing a 143 grain ELD - X at 2910 and I would call it an honest .25 gun with days better than that. In the last year the gun has killed CWT deer at 450, 625, 813 and 964 yards. I'm not really looking to spend 5K but I do want the best available scope that fits my needs. I expect to pay in the $2500-4000 range for a great scope. I think another important part is I want a very low starting magnification. Right now I'm at 6X24 and there are times where I wish I had a 3X scope for up close or low light conditions.

I'm thinking BEAST, Atacr, swaro Z8 type of scopes but I really don't know where to even start. Really looking for the best. I'm more of a one rifle guy and want it to be awesome.