muskeg

Dec az hunt I caught the plane south on (dec 13th) the noon flight out of Ketchikan. My son Tod picked me up that evening at the Burbank airport. We spent the next day packing the small camp trailer and running around getting last minute stuff. Visiting was also in order with Mona and my little granddaughter Brooke. 5 am Wednesday morning found us heading east on the #10 hwy. By evening we were hooking up the trailer at Lakeview RV Park just south of the Roosevelt Lake dam. base camp On the 16th we got a few necessary items in Tonto Basin and packed up our backpacks. On the way to the trail head we stopped in the low desert to check our guns. We noticed the wind was starting to kick it up as we headed up the road. I had made arrangements with Jeff (of Desert Bull Hunting Services) to set up a drop camp, complete with tents, pads, food and water. Lucky for me some of the contacts I made on the Coues board, had suggested the same general area. By the time we got to the trailhead it was later than we hoped. There were some hunters there that have had a family deer camp at the cabin since the early 80's. After some hunting talk we headed out to find the spike camp. About an hour and a half later, following Jeff?s instructions we found the camp site. The wind was strong and building. The light faded fast as we turned in with high winds pounding the camp. Day 1 .. after a very sleepless night, due to the very strong winds. We were slow to get going. The elevation and dry winds are hard on me. Just below camp Tod sights a WT Doe. She just ran into a brush patch like she was being chased. A strong gust of wind hits her brush pile. She runs again. We ease down the hillside. Across a dry meadow, noticing some beds and some of what looks like rut activity. Over to a good glassing place. It?s not long till we sight 2 WT Does feeding sidehill. The wind kicks it up strong. The Does are nervous. They disappear in front of us. I get a glimpse of a good Buck about mid day but he vanishes as quickly as I spot him up range and high. Much later as the shadow works its way up the north slope in front of us Tod says ?deer?. There is a Doe and soon we spot a buck. Down range and low at about 400 yards. I put the scope on it in the low light. ?nice buck, Tod? It?s a Toad with at least 3x long tined rack. We hurried to get a little closer. Both fed away fast as the light faded. Day 2 .. the wind howled all night. A little better sleep but not much. A little more used to the elevation but the dry air is hard on my throat. We got a little earlier start. Back to our vantage point. I gathered a little dry sage and smudged. The wind was still strong but dying down slowly. Soon just across the draw the Coyotes light it up. I return a bleat on the deer call. They just go crazy. Then split in several directions and are gone. Nice morning show. We decide to move down range to large rock outcropping at the point of the ridge. It provides a break in the constant wind. We spot 2 Does and a yearling working up and out of one of the steep hillsides. Late, as the shadow starts it crawl up the hill, Tod spots a dandy Buck. He is back up range by our other vantage point. We gather our gear and head into the wind. It is slowing down as the light fades. We get a good look at about 500 yards. He is at least 3 on each side and tall. We ease out of site behind some Junipers and back out at about 350 yards. He is gone. We looked and looked until dark. Day 3 .. The wind died in the night. Sleep was good. We get a good start on down to our spot. We sight a young Black Bear feeding on Juniper Berries mid slope. No deer all morning, so we decide to walk some. Up to a pass and across the steep hill. Good views all the way. Lots of quail and even a good Cardinal show. I stopped along the way and smudged with fresh sage. I look down into a good looking draw. Some green grass and a willow looking tree or two. What a place. We work our way across the hill. The wind has died and the sun is getting very warm. We ease down on the south slope of this new ridge to take a look at the north side. Down near the bottom there are two Juniper trees that are just flat tore up around them. Obvious rut stuff. The there is a Doe and a yearling and then more 7 or 8 in all with 2 Bucks. There Mule Deer. They move up and out. Tod hears voices. I move over and talk with a couple guys that are making a stalk. A bow hunter that had spotted a bedded buck and has taken about a 2 mile circle to stalk it. We had a nice chat and wished each other luck. They had just jumped 2 WT. We worked our way back to our glassing spot in the warm evening. No deer spotted except 2 miles down range. The bow hunter was packing a Buck up to his rig. Too far to tell what it was. Day 4 .. the best nights rest yet. We will run out of water and food by tonight. Not a breath of wind. We get a good start and decide to take a quick look at our regular spot. No Deer. We decide to head over to the nice draw where I noticed the green grass. Soon we were easing to a vantage point. Then a Deer a nice buck runs half way up the opposite slope and beds down. Very hard to see. Even with the scope. The morning sun is strong in our eyes. There he is. Is it a Coues or a Carp? Nice rack, but too hard for me to tell in the brush. Then movement straight below at 125 yards or so. Rocks rolling. Then a WT Doe come running up out of the draw, then another, then 3 bucks. One does battle with the other. The other smaller one runs up the hill a little. I pick out the aggressive buck. I already marked the area at about 200+ yards. He stands broad side. Tod spots for me as the old 270 speaks. We don?t notice the big bedded Buck leave or the other ones for that mater. I concentrate on keeping an eye on my Buck as he lays down to die. It was a long afternoon as we were about 3 ? hours out from the rig. After the meat (and some gear) load we headed back in to spike camp to get the rest of our gear and put the camp to bed. It was just about dark when got back with the second load. The cold beer that Tony offered was just too good. Tony?s hunting club sets up camp there every year. We had a great visit. The shower at base camp felt good.

I think we spotted between 40 and 45 Deer during our hunt. About half were Bucks. Three of those Bucks were very nice long tined 3x or better racks. Most of you Coues hunters would have shot at the distance we spotted them at. I held my shot distance at 250 yards or less. We also sighted Mt Lion, Pigs, Quail, Cardinals, Rabbits, Coyote, Eagle, Ringtail Cat?, Big Horn Ram, Osprey, and a ton of tweety birds. Thanks again Amanda to the info on this site and the contacts I made for info and to Jeff Rogers of Desert Bull. He put us in'em. Johnnie

Day 5 .. we decided to take the meat into the shop. We too the Apache Trail to town. It was a great day for the ride. About half way along the route we spotted a young Big Horn Ram. Rugged beautiful country. After the meat was turned in we drove over to visit a friend in Glendale. Day 6 .. after giving up on a few rough spur roads up around Jakes Corner we took the A+Cross road. Spotted 2 Does and spent the late evening glassing the Solome River bottom. Day 7 .. started out up the Cherry Creek Road in strong winds doing some glassing. We headed out the main road and over toward Young. Just over the top on the Young side a large WT buck bolted across the road. It was nice being up in the timber. We ate at the Antlers and a long drive back to the Lake. Day 8 .. found us hiking up a wilderness area trail after driving up from Roosevelt after sleeping in, after the late drive back from Young. It was 2:30 or 3 by the time we reached the spring and the sun was behind the ridge and the wind had quieted. It was cold. We jumped a deer at the spring but could not make it out. We checked the area a little and eased off to the rock pile on the riverbed side. I got cold and had to move some. Tod moved over to the fence line, I climbed up a fallen dead tree. After a bit Squirrels came to drink. Those large Grey Squirrels that have the tufts on their ears. They made a lot of noise. It was so still and quiet. Then they left hurriedly. Then I hear deer steps in the dry leaves. Sounds like the deer is doing battle with a bush also. Then quiet. I hand signal Tod. Snort ?. Snort the deer charges out of the brush. Below and to the left of my tree stand. Tod can?t make it. It has a strange NT rack. It stops for a bit. It snorts again and charges across the dry river bed and up the steep bank. Stopping at the top and then disappearing into the Juniper thicket. I give Tod the signal to sit tight. A few minutes later some noise and movement. It?s brown. I see a tail, a long tail. I signal Tod. ?The water tank, the water tank.? The large Tom jumps up on the tank and drinks. I plan on jumping straight for my gun at the bottom of the tree if the cat comes in our direction. Tod slowly readies his gun. The cat look?s at the movement. Eye to eye at 40 yards. Jumps down and slowly lopes away into the thick brush. I get down out of the tree and talk things quietly over with Tod. We slowly head out and back up the trail. A Golden Eagle caught currents down range above us. Quail holler in the fading light. It?s getting dark fast as we reach the truck. What a day ?.. I?ll have a Lion tag in my pocket on all future Arizona hunts. Christmas Day ?? we tried a little fishing in Roosevelt Lake after a down home family meal at the Butcher Hook in Tonto Basin. A real lazy day. Day 9 .. first light found us back at the cabin and trailhead. I wanted to go back to the spring head but Tod wanted to head back out past the spike camp. To our spot. We had seen Deer there every day. Soon we were glassing into the morning sun. Tod spots two does right of the bat. Then another steps out. They feed up and away at about 200 yards. Then another Deer a little higher up. ?it?s a nice forky? Tod don?t take long to decide and has his 7mm on it. I get the scope on it. The shot rings out. Buck down. After the photo session and boning it?s the hike out. We stop to take a needed break in the canyon bottom. What a hunt. We look forward to the next time we draw the December WT tag.

I now totally agree with rembrant ..... There are NO deer of any kind in 23. But there are Lions !!!!!!

Well since it looks like there might be some deer in 23. I better start down that way. I'll fly on Monday, early afternoon. We are going to try to be in position on Fri morning also . From some of the scouting reports of late it looks like the rut might be kicken in. Good luck to all you 23 hunters. Especially bcoover and rembrant. Be safe and I hope you get the buck of your dreams.

Rembrant ..... You mean there ARE deer in 23?

When do they start relaxing, doing deer things again? Our Blacktail seem to have a very short attention span. If you shoot and miss and do not chase (no threat) soon they will just continue to do what they were doing. But we have thick rainforest jungle, that gun shot sounds don't carry that far. During the rut the Blacktail Bucks are so 'interested' that whatever happens around them (even a gun shot) they are oblivious to (sometimes). Once you shoot in a particular area (miss or hit) when can that area be hunted again? Johnnie

I have just learned to use my rifle as a walking stick. Just need to constantly make sure there isn't a bullet up !!!! In fact when my rifle is on my shoulder (rarely) or hiking without a rifle (rarely) I feel a little awkward. But my guns look like it also. But I have my guns to use not just to look at. Like when a hunter shows up, for a Goat hunt, I always say "better take a picture of that gun now, it will never look the same again." On this Coues hunt I will be packing along a very lightweight tri-fold stool. This should help while glassing with the bino's. I always have a spotting scope on tripod for the closer look. I thought those Yucca were like protected or something. Or am I getting that mixed up with those plants that just bloom once every hundred years?

How about wed or thur night at the Antlers for the "tale of the tape" Johnnie

Yes I did Ultramag .... I just sent one your way .... Funny thing is that Bcoover told me to go look in the same place and I'd probably come out of there with a 135 buck, but Rembrant told me (about the same place) I probably wouldn't see ANY deer, not even a carp (am I learnen?), because they are an endangered species in that unit. Rembrant also told me I should just stay up here and hunt Blacktail and next year get my numbers right ..... It's 32 not 23 ..... Anyway I think I'll come just the same ..... You'll be abe to tell it's me by the blaze orange vest with 'non-resident hunter' in black letters on the back ..... as per the new law that just passed in the wake of the Tallman fiasco !!!!!! If your around on about day 4 or 5 I plan on being at the Antlers looking for Bcoover to show him that 135 (at least 80) buck. Good luck to you Dec #23 hunters and I hope you get the buck of your dreams. Thanks again ...... Johnnie

Well let me say this about that ...... I'm flying 1,657 miles and driving over 10 hours to be in that unit on Dec 17th. I was kinda disapointed when Rembrant said there are "NO" WT Deer there....... Let me look at that tag again !!!! Yep it says 12/17 to 12/31 unit #23. I first thought I maybe got my numbers transposed and ment to write in 32 on the party app for my son, Tod and I. Then I tought "wait" wern't those WT bucks we saw last Dec during the 23N Cow Elk hunt? In fact wasen't that the biggest Coues, (of the three runnen together) a lot bigger that any Coues, I have ever seen. I saw quite a few on my first and only other Coues hunt back in '97, unit 34a, the last time I drew !!!! No indeedy, I'm not going to let this tag go un-hunted. It'll be my son's first deer hunt. He is 38. Believe me after this hunt he will be hooked on Coues. Like I've said before I'm just looking forward to some time around the campfire with my son and being with him when and if he connects on his first buck. I'fn I connect, on one of those grey desert ghosts, it's just iceing on the cake. Good luck to you guys ..... it would be nice to get together for a beer. Johnnie

I am currently having the old 270 worked over. A model 721 I got for a birthday present (back in '62 or so). It's killed lots of game. Some big bucks. I am having it shortened (rust in the end) by 2 inches and parkerized and T-coated and mounted on a synthetic stock. It will be wearing a Nikon scope. Hope to have it back by the second week of November and maybe I will get to try it out on a Sitka Blacktail before a Coues buck dies from it in December.

Well Dec 17th is about 2 months away. I sure hope to have a story to tell. It is always fun planning and looking the maps over. Been keeping an eye on this site ever since I found out about it. This is a great site with some great guys hanging around. Lots of info on alot of units. Except the one my son and I drew .... unit 23 .... thats the one with NO DEER in it. Or NO INFO for non-residents. Oh well, I'm sure we will enjoy the backpack trip anyway. Good luck to all you guys and be safe. Have a good hunt.

How late are the Bears out? I have a Dec deer tag and was wondering about the chances on a Bear. Unit 23 .........

I'm taking notes ......... for that Christmas at Roosevelt trip I am planning !!!!! I cancelled that Trusage order. But what if it snows ?

Well maybe I won't be putting in for unit 22 and 23 Dec Elk and WT hunts. I dont think I could handle ......... *They should have to wear a blaze orange vest that says non res hunter on it. Maybe Arizona Guide is onto someting there.

.270 ...... I see your point. I was not aware of that part of the Az draw with USO. I have found out more about the Az situation lately as there are very good discussions going all acrosss the hunting boards. In fact I was wondering if it was a good idea to even do that (for me), after reading a few posts, this season, on hunters accts being screwed up and worries about the tag charge bouncing. I will be sending in by mail from now on ........... that's if you guys let me come and hunt Dec Coues any more I guess USO could do that to our Elk hunts as well. There is an Island just north of here that had an Elk transplant. It has grown to a huntable population. There are some monster bulls out there. Roosevelt's with 1000 or 1200 lb bodies live weight with 300 plus scores. It is a very tough hunt. They started out with 30 tags by draw. Then to 70 and now to 140 plus 15 archery only. The kill has remained the same at between 9 and 12 bulls or so. I have never drawn in six years. Some hunters have drawn twice though. Only one non-res has drawn but only very few put in for it. I would hate to think about USO flooding that one with apps. That action does have to be stopped.

Well, as far as a non-res quota. But when the Federal Government took over the Fish and Game management in Alaska alot of people considered that quite a bombshell, also. I consider the current administration in DC (no mater who it is) as mostly responsible for the current actions of the persons making the decisions about things that go on on the National Forest, BLM and Park Service lands. The heads of those agencies are carring out his agenda. All thats to political for me at this time. AZ is not alone in this mater as haven't I just heard that USO sued Nevada in the last few days. Seems like you guys in AZ have some deep issues with G&F mangement as far as tags go and the USO suit is just bringing things up front. I was always under the impression that AZ had written the book on the Big Game draw and somewhat on Game mangement and almost everyone (including az residents) were mostly happy with the system. Now I see that's not so.

Some of the things you all have listed have already been found not-leagal to implement, I'm sure. You cannot restrict guide licenses to residents only. Alaska has already been through that one, I believe. The AZ safety course requirement for non residents, also will not fly. Orentation meetings or siminars required could fly. You must go to one before hunting Kodiak Brown Bear and Moose in Ak. Starting this season all Sheep must be checked by ADF&G after the kill. Actually the 4 year Brown Bear rule in Alaska (one Bear every 4 years) has to be for every one, res and non-res alike. I don't think it can be specific to non-res only. Bag limits for the non-res vrs res can vary though. You used to have to pay for tags upfront in AK to get into one of the few draws we have. They changed this, in AK, probably for legal reasons. And the mass paper work and expense in refunding the non-drawn persons. You could have no-non-res draws like Ca. But once in a lifetime draws can not be specific for the non-res only, I don't believe. I would be interested in how many non-res put in for Cow tags. More than you would imagine I'm sure. Also how many non-res do get drawn and do not hunt? Probably again more than you realise. I knew a party tag of 3 hunters (from NH) for unit 23 dec WT last season that had to cancel thier hunt. Do you all consider that as 3 wasted tags (that could have gone to a res) or 3 bucks that were not killed and available to give the heard a gain making it better for this year? The formula in AK is 33%. One third are successful, one third are not and one third don't hunt the drawn tag. That is the general rule and an average from much info gathered over many years. It varies though. There are some draws in AZ that have very few (if any) non-res apps. This is apparent by the left over tags for some hunts. Do AZ residents go hunt other states? You bet, many do I'm sure. Many come to AK. You must keep that in mind when restricting the non-res hunter. What goes around comes around. But a word of warning. When the Federal Gov took over the fish and game management in AK on federal lands, it has become a real nightmare. Local hunters are restricting non-local hunters, because the fed law gives the local hunter the upper hand when push comes to shove. I'm not talking state residency here. I'm talking game regs written based on your zip code. This is what we have here now. When game management and science is taken out of the biologists hands and put into the legal, political hands (like has seemed to happen around the country under the Bush admin) it is a no win situation for the hunter/fisherman. Especially the Sport hunter and Sport fisherman. Like in Alaska the fed gov has defined us as a sport hunter or subsistence hunter by our zip codes. The State of Alaska constitution says ALL ALASKANS are equal when it comes to fish and game harvest. But as we see the fed gov has different ideas and the Bush admin has told our Attorney General to suck it up.

I have a lot of thoughts on this subject. We have many more non-resident hunters come up here and hunt Black Bear than residents. So when your a public (web site) person like me you get a lot of info inquries. I am general in my info, but very helpful. I won't draw circles on a map and name places. When I guide a hunters in the places it took me many years to learn I ask them that they not hunt the exact places I hunt with them. They can use all the info that I teach them but I don't want to hike up to one of my mountains and find a group from Texas being led by someone that took a nice buck with me, type action. There is plenty of room to spread out and places that get rarely hunted to choose from. From what I saw while in Unit 23 last Dec Cow season and in Unit 34a back in the late '90's (the last time I drew a Coues tag) there are plenty of lightly or even non hunted areas. Because of the rugged mountains. Also the draw keeps the hunter #'s down. I took a stand in the upper Sawmill Canyon (34a) on opening day expecting hunters below to drive deer up. I could see the whole canyon below me. Not one hunter down there. Finally about 10 am one lone pickup came up the canyon and stopped way down there not doing my plan any good. Az is like Alaska. Some vast rugged country. But Az has jeep roads. I put in for Az because I can only hunt out of Alaska in Dec and Az is the only western state that has good Dec hunting. It also has great weather and is a good break from the Alaska stuff. I also sometimes hunt Cali for Hogs during the winter months. When my son and I drew the party tag for Dec unit 23, I didn't mean to take that tag away from Rembrandt. It was a plan that I generally started back in '96 or so. I used the Az point system to get it. I have found a good unit (22&23) that I like that offers both Deer and Elk in Dec. Hunts that can be hunted back to back if lucky enough to be drawn for both. Or either one will do. My son wants to get some property around there. As it is very reasonable in the Young area. I plan on learning 22 and 23 as those will be the only draw I will be putting in for, probably. It will be my sons first deer hunt in his life. As he has just started big game hunting in the last few years. Even though we are both along in age it will be great to be with him when he lowers the hammer on his first buck. for me it's the desert camping, travel out of Ak, being with my son and taking a buck is just iceing on the cake. There are many ways to give the Residents of Arizona the priority to tags. The 10% cap is just one way. The non-resident hunt in Az is huge economics as it is here in Ak. The state promotes it. The system is set up that way. Ca and Wa do not solicit the non-res hunter and Or is inbetween with 2% and 5% non-res caps on draws. Actually Ca is starting to realise the value of the non-res hunter in the Hog hunt. But in all those states there are some over the counter general hunts for the non-res just like Az's jan bow hunting is. I have asked for and received good hunt info from Az hunters on several boards. i have also traded and probably will trade services with Az hunters. Some Az residents have also been rude when asking for info. Like a hunter that goes by Couesnam over on Jesse's. Some Az hunters are obviously taking there frustration about the USO court ruling aginst the non-res hunters. I figure what goes around comes around.