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On the 21st I think the proposed hunt structure can be changed for the overlap of elk/deer hunt if enough of us disagree with it. IMO I think the archery deer hunt should begin on Friday August 24th the week before labor day and last until Thursday September 13th, which is the way it always used to be done. Archery elk starts on September 15th and I think the one's that drew tags or even that didn't will have a lot to say on the 21st about this. Jim I appreciate all the info that you provide! I can't argue with the facts you provide on the Southeastern Arizona deer numbers. The deer numbers proposed look to be well researched and thought out in advance before making decisions. Doug, thanks for all the info on the meeting. It really helps to see what the plan was for the two week earlier date recommendations and it's also good knowing how the Kaibab's doe ratio is. I would have never thought the Kaibab had such a good fawn crop, hopefully a good sign for the future on the Kaibab deer herd. I still disagree with the Kaibab deer permit levels, eventhough a well trained biologist is making the right decisions for the management plan they are after. I think many of us would love to see the Kaibab come back the way it used to be and we would like it right now, but it just can't happen. I don't know if that is in the game biologists plan for less deer and more hunter opportunity on the Kaibab, or if the plan will always be affected by the winter range. Maybe Arizona is becoming too populated to ever have it like the good ol days. Hunter opportunity may be more important for the future hunters rather than having the opportunity at larger bucks and seeing more deer during a hunt. I think increased opportunity is great, but with increased opportunity in a designed trophy deer area I think it's the wrong decision being made. Having more deer and larger bucks may be greedy and selfish, but I think in certain areas of the State people are willing to wait for a quality deer tag. We already have hunter opportunity with a Statewide archery deer hunt, and I think it should continue for many years to come. This may seem wrong to rifle only hunters, but like many other States if you want opportunity you must be willing to hunt in a less desirable unit and Arizona has plenty of those type of units you can draw regulary. Overall I would like to see the Kaibab become a awesome archery deer hunt, and I believe it can be done while still providing a very quality rifle buck hunt on the Kaibab. The fact is rifle buck numbers would have to be reduced to probably around 200-300 and flucuated from there while eliminating doe hunts. Hunter opportunity comes from archery anyway, and if more of us want to be in the woods for a quality hunt you must take up archery, and someday hope to draw a quality rifle deer tag, while you are still having awesome hunter opportunity with a bow and seeing quality animals and deer numbers. As always Arizona has plenty of other less desiable rifle deer units for those wanting to hunt with a rifle often. That's just my opinion on the situation, agree or disagree, I just have more hope for an area of the State that I feel is being mis-managed.

I have a used broadhead from last years spike deer if you want it? Amanda has much better contests than I do, but one of these days I'll have a contest with some prizes.

I posted some photos below of elk I took video of. Also you can compare video of a bull from two different years. I would have posted this a couple years ago but never could get video on here, so I just took pics off the video today. Hope you like the pics....Also these pics are elk from unit 1,27,4,5,6, or 8, you can flip a coin so it doesn't overcrowd these units....I'm curious as to what you guys think either of these bulls would have scored....And do you think Bull#1 and Bull#3 are the same? Bull#1: This was a 6X7 bull from 2004. I scouted this bull out for my hunt, but never harvested him. Bull#1: Same bull as above, with a different angle. 2004 Bull#1: Same bull again at water. 2004 Bull#2: This bull I had a 23 yard shot at opening day of the 2004 hunt but passed. The only reason this one got passed on was because the bull in the photo above was in the same area. I did decide when he started to leave that I wanted to take him, but by then I had wasted too much time and he slipped away through the trees. Bull#2: Bull again with a little better pic of the points. Bull#3 from 2005 which I believe is the same bull as Bull#1 from the year before. I think because Bull#3 was harvested about a mile away from where the video was of Bull#1, same point numbers on both sides, and a narrow width. What are your thoughts, same bull or a different bull? Bull#3 front view.

Thanks for all the posts helping score these elk. It looks like most agree that Bull#1 and Bull#3 are likely the same, which I've been curious as to what other elk fanatics thought about it and you all helped out a lot! Bull#1 had scores from 345-370. Bull#2 scores from 320-355. Bull#3 scores from 345-391. Official score was 388 1/8, with a 33 7/8" spread. My thoughts before were both bull#1 and Bull#3 were the same. Ever since taking the video I thought Bull#1 was about 370-375. It looks like he put on about 15-20 inches the following year of 05' where we had a lot of rain in Arizona. Thanks again for your responses!

Makes you wonder big time. A lot of the changes don't make a bit of sense... First off sending 800 doe hunters to the Kaibab just about does it. They've been reducing these tags for a couple of years now because they were worried about the population suffering. Now that a few more bucks are killed on the Kaibab we need to send an army in to plow the doe's down so a high success rate doesn't happen there again. Where's the logic in this????????? Way too many permits in some of the southern units for deer, I guess the deer are just jumping all over the hillsides down there. Archery Elk/Archery deer at the same time, how crazy is that. My only explanation for this is they couldn't send all the archery tags to November last year which upset them; so now they're going to upset the people that drew archery elk tags this year. The only good part about this whole deal is they have not hired anybody from New Mexico to work for them. I didn't notice any hunts starting on Saturday or mid-week. Oh but the changing the Kaibab deer hunt two weeks earlier LOL, I hope those hunters have high success and send G&F a message about hunter success and hunter opportunity. What a JOKE...

Another member took the alive pics of bull#3 at night. Change your score as many times as needed, this is just for fun. Yes bull#3 was harvested in 05'.

Coosefan, here's some pics of Bull#3 where they are attached to the animal. Your estimates are great, but it's probably a better pic being attached to an animal. Bull#3 you guys are close but nobody's hit the nail on the head yet. Glad to see you guys are guessing on these three bulls. The pics below may help estimate Bull#3.

Here's a side view of Bull#2. Any guess to what he would have scored? I'll never know but would like to get your opinion. Also if you have an idea on the score bull#1 also. I don't know the score on him either but if your a good judge of elk it would be great to give it a try. Bull#3 I know the score on. You can guess on him also to test your skills. If you need more photos of width let me know.

Love the Pics!! Do you guys ever lose dogs off the cliffs? Did you pass on that lion because it was so steep of country?

Is that 15 for deer or elk that sucked? I could see it being terrible for deer but I hear it's a good elk unit.

Sweet Video...Looking forward to your future scouting trips also!!

Cool pics, those do really look like dino tracks.... Scottyboy is this you?????????????? ..............................J/K Neat Avatar though!

That's Awesome!!

WHAT AN INCREDIABLE SHED!!!! TOTALLY AWESOME...........STILL IN AMAZEMENT JUST LOOKING AT IT. HAVE YOU SEEN THE BULL IN THE AREA? WHAT'S THE STORY ON IT? THE BULL IS PROBABLY JUST GETTING OVER HIS HEADACHE AFTER CARRYING THAT THING AROUND........................

Awesome, really like the royal on that one. Looks like the third almost came out of the G2 also. Keep after it, you still have three more right sides out there....

Wow what a great shed!!

Could the skull possibly be a javelina? I've seen a lot of Javelina in 7W over the last 5 years...

Great finds...It looks like the $5,000 finally paid off, I know you didn't find them all by yourself.. That monster shed is unbelievable, what did you tape it at?

Glad to see your already scouting! Last time I had a spring turkey tag for that unit I saw another turkey hunter pick up the largest elk shed I've ever seen. I didn't put a tape on it or take a pic probably because I was so surprised to see such a large piece of bone, but it was probably near 400 pts if the other side were to match. I'll pm you the location and if you run into him or his brother while scouting you'll have to let me know what he looks like...

Great find Amanda! If it were not for the long eyeguards it would have me fooled as being a muley with width like that!!! Awesome!!

Great finds!! Keep at it, the pics are Awesome....

I also think the reason the deer are suffering is the high number of permits being issued, particulary doe permits. I think it's great for the youth hunters to get out and hunt, but I don't think it's more important than deer management. Every year I always check the regulations to see how many doe permits are being issued. Lately I've been satisfied that the doe permits are on a major decline.

Results are on the web.

Here's a freak, pic taken from summer of 2006. Same bull Sepember 2006. Here he is again on the second to last day of archery season.

Here's some new info on the azgfd website...Also there's a couple left over elk permits available. The 2007 draw for pronghorn antelope and elk has been completed by the Arizona Game and Fish Department. Anyone who applied can now visit azgfd.gov/draw or call (602) 942-3000 (press two and follow the prompts) to find out if they received a hunt permit tag. Just over 102,000 people applied for 24,194 available elk permits and 37,009 people applied for 969 available pronghorn antelope permits. About 78 percent of all hunters used the online computer process to submit their applications instead of a paper application. All hunt permits for pronghorn antelope were issued in the draw, but a few permits are leftover for elk. Two general antlerless elk permits are available for hunt number 3094 in Game Management Units 28, 31, and 32. And seven limited opportunity elk permits are available for hunt number 3090 and one limited opportunity elk permit is available for hunt number 3167. Applications for these permits will be accepted online only at www.azgfd.gov beginning at 8 a.m. (MST) on April 16. Leftover permits will be issued on a first-come, first-served basis. For those individuals who qualify, there are military hunts available on Camp Navajo. For more information about these hunts, call (928) 773-3306. Hunters should mark their calendars for Tuesday, June 12, 2007. That’s the anticipated date of the next big game hunt permit draw deadline for fall hunts for mule and white-tailed deer, turkey, javelina, bighorn sheep, and buffalo. Drawing information and regulations for these hunts should be available on the department’s Web site at the end of April. Printed copies of the regulations should be available at license dealers statewide the third week of May.