azelkhunter2

Ringer this isn’t about convincing a few thousand people That hunting is good good. It’s about convincing the ENTIRE population of the state that are Department knows what’s best for ALL game and non game species in the state. Not some outside group. It’s my understanding that the explanation of how the funds were spent to fight HSUS is posted on conserve and protects site I have not viewed it so I can’t tell you what it says. I have asked that a copy of it be sent to me to post here....

I will try and answer the question to the best of my knowledge.....I someone finds differently please post it.... I was told this morning that there are two groups......One is conserve and protect and the other one is conserve and Protect Arizona. I dont know what the difference is !!!! The one that is proposing this will take the funds generated and give all 100% of the monies raised to the department. Something similar to the HPC model this money would be used to educate the public on the importance of the dept Ect.....there would be a board of individuals much like the HPC board that would with the department decide how to best spend the money The other group is on their own to raise money to do the other work that needs to be done....Apparently through banquet, non tag raffles private donations and monies donated by the current wildlife organizations Ect.... Can someone PLEASE attend a meeting or make a call and see what they can find out...

Flatlander...I dont recall saying ANYONES ideas we bad or would not work.... I am all for more ideas.....My statement about get off your #### and do something is more to point out that there have been several very good ideas and points brought up but other then post them here not one person has posted a good idea or thought and then followed up on it and come back and posted what they have found what will and wont work....and more to the point that if we all work together we can find solutions to not just this issue but many others that we as sportsman face.....The Bottom line is if you have an idea or thoughts do something with it dont wait for someone else to do the work....posted ideas and thoughts are great if someone does something with them.... And just to be clear this is not in anyway shape or form the ADAs idea....And I Dont speak on behalf of the ADA these are MY PERSONAL OPINIONS.....No one at the ADA can or will make any decisions that will change anything Conserveand and protect decides to do..... And I cant find anywhere that I have said this is the only way....I have asked repeatedly for more ideas...All I have said over and over is we as sportsman need to do something to find a reliable fundraising source to fight the fight Furthermore the statement about the average sportsman sitting behind their keyboard and not doing anything was meant as a very blanket statement.....Yes directly pointed and some posters here but more at the fact their are over 250.000 sportsman that hunt in this state and the OVERWHELMING majority dont do anything more then buy a license and an occasional tag....and thats great if your ok with the consequences of that but as you are well aware of there is a tremendous amount more thats needs to be done and we as sportsman need to do it....Not just hunters but everyone that uses the outdoors

Kent can you please direct that very question to conserve and protect.... And please post the answers here....

Idgaf...I dont work for the Dept nor am I a legal expert, But it has been explained to me that....As it currently sits the AZGFD cant fight a political battle in anyway shape or form. Now can they use and do they use their funds for education YES. ( and thats what the new group wants to use some of it for too )....This is where it gets convoluted....The Dept is VERY limited in what they can say in the realm of education.....For instance they cant say please buy a hunting license and support the dept and the states wildlife....and the list goes on and on....So even if they had an unlimited budget their ability to fight the fight in the manner that would be needed is still not possible. But please dont take my word for it ( I may have my facts wrong ) PLEASE PLEASE contact the Dept and ask for yourself....Please post your findings here for all to see.... Are taking tags the only way to raise the needed funds....I cant answer that.....I would hope if there is another way it would be sought out...What I can tell you is....Aside from are yearly banquet I have been the primary fundraiser for the Az deer association for a very long time. Raising funds is a nightmare....I spend close to 30 hrs a week working on it and we are a small organization....If you remove the funds generated by are banquet are total for the year is less then $60.000 raised....through raffles and donations.....and we do better then most other organizations.... As far as the Dept having a surplus of money and lowering tag fees....I dont ever recall seeing that or hearing about it so I cant speak to it...But again please contact the Dept and post your findings here. But my assumption would be that even if it did it would probably fall back to what they can and cant do. Now with that said can laws be changed and rules be rewritten too allow they do use the monies in a different fashion....I have been told yes.....But I have also been told its an enormously complex process that involves ALL state agencies ( cant do it for just the Dept )...And that the cost and time involved and the chances of it being successful in the end are slim to none. BUT AGAIN please find out for yourself and post your findings here as I have never deeply looked into it....But I have been briefed by state representatives on the subject.... And to answer someone elses question..... The monies that go into the HPC fund are generated by the sale and raffle of tags. The monies are held by the Dept...The monies and where and what habitat projects they fund are decided on by a group comprised of representatives from the Dept and every wildlife organization that contributed funds. Im not sure what had to happen to make this possible but I know it was very involved.....It is my understanding that any monies raised from the new concept would be treated in the same manner.....If someone would like to contact the Dept and get further information on how the funds from the HPC work differently from general funds please post your findings here..... If I have missed anything please let me know and Ill try and find answers.....Gentlemen this is my understanding of the process...If anyone finds something different PLEASE post it and let me know....I am one guy with one small organization I dont have all the answers or know it all....but I will try and get the answers and Im always open to leaning something new...

The monthly Arizona Deer Association board meeting will be held Tuesday April 17th at 6:30 at Bass Pro Shop. We will have a representative from Conserve and protect in attendance to try and answer any questions. This is in addition to are regularly scheduled business and will try and provide as much time as needed to the Q/A session. If you have any questions but are unable to attend please E- Mail them to me at azdeer1@cox.net I will send you confirmation that I received your questions and try and get answers to them. Thanks Dave

I’m sure those in attendance would prefer a more professional approach.

The monies would not go to the same place....The current monies go to the HPC fund...

Blake thank you for the effort.....every little bit and new idea helps

Idgaf....Just to be clear.....Regardless of the wildlife organization that sells the auction tag....NOT one penny is used by the organization for anything.....Every penny goes to the HPC fund....All cost to sell the tags are absorbed by that organization.....

Idgaf....Not sure if you got your question answered....My understanding is that the ultimate goal is NOT to have a stand alone event that would incur the fees you speak of. There were a few different options laid out.....If the tags went to the Az super big game raffle any cost would be absorbed by that group and the exact amount the tags raised would go to the fund...If any of the tags went to any of the local wildlife organizations such as the ADA we would handle it just as we do the current auction tags we deal with. That is we as an organization pay all cost involved in the sale of the tag. The entire amount of the tag currently goes to the HPC fund. It is my understanding that any other organization would do the same thing. We were told over and over that any and all monies that that tag brought in would go to the fund, That at no time would a single penny of tag raised money go into anyone’s pocket.....This is my biggest concern....If anyone makes money off any tags...I’m out 100%

We were told as an organization that if 1000.000 Dollars was made then 1000.000 would go to the fund. That absolutely no one was going to make a dime....

Idgaf...it’s my understanding that 100% of monies collected go to the fund that there is no fees to put the program on....that no one makes any money on this....if I’m wrong please tell me

And for those of you who say let the department handle it...You really want the department to been in charge of protecting your RIGHT to hunt.....If in fact the funds go into a account similar to the HPC funds then yes the department holds the monies but a group of sportsman with the department decide where the funds go...any of you could be part of the group that decides where the money goes....what better way to make sure it’s used in the right way...

Idgaf...could not agree more.....The Don as he is called has made an enormous amount of money from Utah sportsman I just think if he was involved he would want to get paid. From what I know 100 % of the proceeds from this go to the department in someway....What am I missing

You all realize that the Dept handles ALL game and non game species in the entire state....And that its true the majority of their funds come from us hunters we as a whole are nothing more then a piece of the pie. That there are as many non hunters on their staff as hunters and that if hunting goes away the department does not they still have all the other game and non game animals as well as fishing,camping and wildlife projects to handle....so well they have a concern it’s not the end of the world if a ban or two happen or if hunting goes away altogether.....they cater to all individuals who use the outdoors not just us hunters

Idgaf...I am truly asking what are the ties....If in fact SFW or Don Peay has anything to do with this I’m OUT 100%....I just can’t find any hard facts that put the two together....Yes there is assumed ties but we all know what happens when you assume....Please find the ties

Blake...Please contact the Dept and find out what their education budget is and how it was dispersed..... Then ask what percentage of sportsman check the box on the app and donate extra money to the dept and what that total is. Then ask why they didnt do more on the HSUS fight and in educating the states residents on the subject. Please find out what their plan for education is from this point forward..... And while I agree 100% with you about hunting and weather its a right or privilege....Nowhere in the state constitution does it state that or in are countries constitution

Idgaf....Am I missing where that ties SFW or Don Peay to this group....We all know that a number of individuals that are one one list are on the other but my Question was where does SFW and Don Peay sit on conserve and protect

Kent I personally spent several days at the zoo as did my wife and at Whole Foods and the dmv and several other places. As did MANY other individuals did.... Where we at every place at every time no...We were not

Blake...I have made my thoughts very clear in are conversations. You know my stance I also made it very clear I’m not part of conserve and protect but I know the players very well. I also made it clear there is no plan in place just a concept and that I had not listened to the pod cast prior to are conversation so I had no idea what was said in them. You are well aware I’m not for the kings deer concept.....But I am in favor of a plan that will raise the funds needed to fight the fight whatever that fight looks like.... The current wildlife organizations are taxed in what they can do....All the work that gets done is done by volunteers!!!! They ALL put up a huge amount of money to fight off HSUS....THEY ARE the people do the work behind the scenes so that the average sportsman can enjoy the sport. And there are almost NO new volunteers coming in....You all ask why you always see the same names pop up...It’s because they have been involved for yrs and there is NO ONE else that is willing to do ANYTHING.... If every sportsman in Az gave 20.00 Dollars a year we would never have this conversation. But they won’t give a dime... There are 27 #### pages of you and everyone else on the site screaming about the Dept raising tag fees a few yrs back. You all were gonna be living in a card board box down in the river because of it. Now you want the dept to add a special fee to fight the fight !!!! Ultimately it does not matter what the Dept or any wildlife organizations proposed the average sportsman is going to complain. It’s what they do best !!! Someone is getting screwed or not getting there’s , someone might have an advantage the list goes on and on

While the overwhelming majority of the average sportsman sit behind their keyboard and complain there are hard working men and woman young and old who spend their time raising money, hauling water, fixing fences, repairing and installing new water holes.... supporting the Dept when needed and the list goes on and on and on so that YOU THE AVERAGE SPORTSMAN have healthy herds and the opportunity to hunt....They don’t do it for money or accolades they do it because it’s part of who the are and they care.... I say this to the AVERAGE SPORTSMAN....get off your collective ##### and do something....Hunting is not a right it’s a privilege and it’s one your not going to recognize if YOU don’t do something positive!!!!!

Someone please show me where SFW and conserve and protect are one in the same. Hard facts not personal opinions or hearsays. SFW takes an enormous amount of money and refuses to show where it goes and who gets paid....if Im not mistaken conserve and protect has repeatedly said 100% of monies raised go possibly to a fund similar to the HPC fund and it is put on by a group of volunteers and NO one gets paid. Please show all of us where Don Peay has any thing to do with this.... Blake....If you and all the other are so concerned about the group that is pushing this but you admit you see a need for a fundraising source WHY dont you and a group of trusted sportsman takeover the cause or start your own fundraising initiatives..... Please be the guys that stops the bad man from taking your tags!!!! Is it because it might take time and effort? Is it because it might be hard ? Or is it because the average sportsman just dont care enough to do anything more then just sit behind the keyboard and complain and tell others to do what needs to be done. PLEASE TELL US ALL.....

All very very good questions....WHY DONT YOU ALL START LOOKING INTO IT.....why wait for someone else to do it.!!!!!

For those that are interested. I was told that an explanation of how the fight / funds to defeat HSUS is posted on conserve and protects site. I have not read it nor do I know what it says I am simply passing on info....