Muley62

When Amanda brought up this idea yesterday I about banged my head on the monitor! Sometimes the best ideas are right under our noses. Amanda and I have served together on the ADA board for many years; on top of that I am an AZ native who loves to hunt Coues deer. All of this makes Western Hunter and Coueswhitetail.com a great combination. I feel privileged to be a part of this community. I have been a member for years and have always admired and appreciated the passion that everyone brings to forum. Thanks Amanda for the offer! FYI…I did not draw elk or antelope.

I guess I would be a lot more supportive if I felt that this was a real problem. Sure there are some guys out there who don’t buy a guides license and do some funny trading, but is it a real problem? I don’t think so. Of course this was not a problem when guides licenses cost $100, but when the commission raised the price to $300 with absolutely no value added at all, then it became a problem. The other side of this bill that remains somewhat hidden is that the department wants to change the punishment for “wasting edible portions” from a non-revocable offense to a maximum 5 year revocation of your hunting rights. So if an officer feels that you should have taken more of that rib meat or neck meat than you did, you could lose your right to hunt in the United States for 5 years. I am all for punishing a guy for cutting a head off and walking away but let’s at lease define the violation! All that anyone is asking is that the department defines “compensation” and/or “edible portions” more precisely. Is that asking too much? The biggest problem that I have with Mr. Elms response is that what definition the court would likely use for compensation. While the officer must prove his case, the judge must hear the case, and the jury must render a decision, all you have to do is pay $15,000 for an attorney to defend you! If you are found not-guilty or the case gets thrown out for lack of evidence nobody is going to cover your court cost. 20 years from now when Gene and all the old guard at G&F have retired and the average WM is a non-hunter with 2 years experience do you want this law on the books!??? I doubt it….

Amanda stayed until the end of the meeting on Saturday at which time Bob Hernbrode asked the department to increase tag numbers by and additional 10%! Does that piss anybody off?

i have heard that Cabela's is the largest UPS account in the world.

Cabelas_Telephonic_Final__2_.pdf This absolutely shocked me! They are actually going to discuss this.

Unless they get a court order, which isn't going to happen, then these apps will not be in the draw. The commission already made a stand on this issue last Friday. Though I do see a new policy in the future regarding bonus points. Wyomin and Utah already allow you to buy a bonus point after the application deadline.

There is no way they will be accepted. It was brought before the commission and there was no relief given. It cost the state over 100K would be my guess but there was no way they could make an exception.

I heard that it was over 600 applications

Everytime I look at this thread I see as many guest as I do members reading it. Everybody at G&F involved in this process is reading this thread at least once a week.

Great point! This whole thing really irks me, mostly because it is born out of pure jealousy. Every time I ask department personnel why they are doing this I am told it is due to “public outcry.” How many publics have been crying? Or how many crying publics does it take to create a rule? The other thing I often hear is “the non hunting public would not support this type of activity.” Well, the “non-hunting” public, by definition, does not hunt! So desertbull is asking a very real question. Which form of hunting will get thrown under the bus next?! I am betting it will be hound hunting, then varmint hunting, and then I guess bowhunting would be next.

Here is an incomplete list of just a few of the great items. Bring your money, their will be some great odds of winning! PSE X Force Hoyt Katera Hoyt Ultra 38 Bowtech 82nd Airborne Bowtech Commander Bowtech (not sure of the model) Polaris Ranger South African Bowhunt Texas Exotic Bowhunt Indiana Whitetail Hunt Fishing Trip with Don Martin Turkey School with Marvin Robbins Disney Land Package (hotel and 1 day pass to Disney Land for 2) Stay at Vino Bello resort in Napa Valley $1000 cash raffle Swarovski 15 x 56 Double Bull Blinds Rinehart targets Various Wildlife prints (framed) Guns (you should have a list) Ladies Diamond Earrings Ladies wildlife jewelry 3 Micro midas bows for kids Leica range finder Plus numerous misc items for bucket raffle and balloon raffle.

Awesome deer and great photos!

Josh those are some great live shots! What type of set up where you using? I was at the ATA (archery show) in Indy last week and tons of people asked me about Coues deer hunting with a bow. I told most of them that it was very close to impossible to kill one with a bow but now you have inspired me to get off my &**^ and work harder. Congratulations again!

All of those were elk projects because those were the ones done by AES. Missed, I hear your problem and don't completely disagree. Doing this work with G&F is the most effecient possible way. Many of the projects require NEPA and EIS research done before the project can begin and the department personel are equiped to do this. These projects would take decades to finish if we had to do that work!

The funds for special tags are administered by G&F with oversight from the conservation organizations. For example the link below will show you alot of the work that the AES has done. Many of these projects use both tag fund money and private money and I can't tell you which is which but it does give you and idea. By state law the funds must be spent on approved habitat work. Each of the groups can always use help on their habitat committees which decide and work on these projects so you can have direct input if you care to join. http://www.arizonaelksociety.org/fundedprojects.html

I don't think that Utah has any tags that are raffled and only available to Utah residents. You do have to go to their convention in order to be qualified for the drawing though. These are Utah tags and they are trying to bring people to Utah with the requirement so i don't have a big problem with it.

#1. The only purpose is to raise the maximum amount of money. The species specific organizations (i.e. the ADA. AES, ADBSS. etc...) administer the money #2 The Utah raffle is open to non residents as well as residents. I think Utah has gone way too far with the special tag concept. #3 A better question would be "how do I feel about 11 out 11 winners not being Chris Denham"? Well, I am ticked off! I will guess that a little more than 60% of he tickets came from non residents and since this is all about raising money then I don't care in the least.

Sundevil To answer your question, it is all about the money. Prior to the Super Raffle there was one elk tag and one sheep tag that were raffled. They both sold for 100-140K and now they sell for 140K+, next year they will break 150K IMO. Due to the huge amount of work and expense involved in running a raffle these individual organizations raffling a single tag other than sheep or elk just wasn't going to happen. By combining all of the species into one Super Raffle we were able to minimize the expense and raise raffle revenue from $200-250K to over $600K in just two years. At the same time every sportsman has a chance to win one of these tags. One thing you may not know is that every dime that is raised must go back into wildlife habitat work. We mailed 100k pieces of mail and managed over $600K this year and that cost alot of money. These bills are paid for by the proceeds from the Swarovski raffle package and contributions from the various conservation organizations. The money generated by these tags is administered jointly by the department and the species specific organization to ensure the money is spent wisely. BTW, If you are interested in joining the committee doing all the work call me. Chris Denham 480-219-1503 PS- Wildcats Suck! My blood runs Maroon and Gold!

I use a Canon Powershot. It was discontinued but replaced with the A540 if I am not mistaken. You need to buy a Canon adapter ($16 about) to convert it to 52mm for use with the Swarovski DCA. It works great.

Marty Congratulations! Awesome deer! Chris Denham

Kevin, do you know how many were residents vs. NR's last year? That does seem really low unless hunters were holding out like yourself. I am applying for unit 10 this year but after this, I may be a 1/27 convert as well. When you have a choice between sleeping under a cedar tree in 95 degrees or in the pines with frost on the grass...well I see your point.

Dave et al. I will make sure those position statements are on the website once it is ready to go. Though I did make the decision, if I had, I would not have included any positions statements. I think a membership flyer should be about who you and what you stand for and not about who you are not and what you stand against. That is just my opinion.

Allen No problem, I know where you are coming from and if you have questions then there are other people who have the same question but did not ask. It gives us a chance to talk about it. I know what you are saying regarding the special tags. Just look at Utah, it is ridiculous. I would fight against any system that approaches that one. Chris

I really like the Sure loc Lethal Weapon Max. You can buy it with 3 pins or 5. It is a moveable sight so I can adjust it out to about 120 yards. Of course I would not shoot that far when hunting but it is great practice to shoot your hunting bow at long distance. It also gives you the ability to set it for "46 yards" if you have the time to make the adjustment.

Allen AZSFW has a position statement that says we are not in support of landowner tags for any species in AZ period. Though I am sure that there are some landowners in the state that are talking about this type of plan there is no formal support or program being talkied about. I am trying to remember all of the questions... Regarding the Conservation Force and SFW. As I am aware of there was not formal affiliation between the two. Don Peay did sit on the Conservation Force BOD but he voted against their position. SFW was the largest and Don lobbyed congress heavily in support of the Reid bill which is why we have 10% again. Allen I thought you knew that any organization that sells any AZ special tag must return 100% of the money raised to habitat work. Even the interest that may be generated from the time of the sale to the time the money is spent must be accounted for and returned to the ground. We cannot deduct and cost of the managing a raffle and must absorb the cost of printing, postage and bank fees. Also, AZSFW does not control a single tag in AZ to begin with. AZSFW does not charge 10% of any number in order for a club to be a voting member. I honestly can't remember what the number is! I will look it up but wanted to post here first. Chris Denham