elkaholic

in case you didnt see it well - I actually attended the meeting - I know - pass the smelling salts to all those in need We are getting the portal come jan 2015 - basically a done deal it a new up to date- new technological website -that lets you login and interactively get and give G&F information on your interests - with possible access to buyin licenses - boat renewal etc - make it as detailed as you desire for yourself as for the hunting club - no one person was really excited or even thought it would fly . we can get early access to the draw using our cc the main discussion cover surrendered tags I guess I was the only one who really do want hunters to just be able to return tags - minus tag cost and keep ther bonus points heres what I sent in as my comment If they allow surrendered tags - there must be guidelines and penalties involved. besides loss of tag fees - 1- 25 dollar reprocessing fee 2- a loss of loyalty points for 5 yrs 3 - preferably a medical /doctors excuse that you physically can not hunt -then no loss of loyalty points or bonus points 4 - at least 2 weeks before season starts - not really fair to the new guy if its at a moments notice 5 -once in a lifetime - one species otherwise hunters will abuse the process point of interest - lets say of the 26,000 elk tags - .01 % decide for whatever reason to return there tags what will the cost of trying to get 260 new hunters a chance to go and how long will it take what if its 10 % can the department honestly be able basically redraw 2,600 tags in a minimum of time -say giving Each called person TWO or more tries to contact ? allowing surrendered tags will ultimately be a total pain in the rear if you do not implement a stiff penalty. now that's just elk - figure in all the other game species You'd need a new staff and a dedicated department to pull it off they are opening a can of worms that they may not be able to control I think that the only real reason to surrender a tag is medical- doctors excuse if they are to maintain bonus points other wise we all know anything can and does sometimes happen to change plans - lose everything -get over it A lot of hunters may use the surrender to draw a better unit or during better conditions etc. will happen! less likely if they know there are pentalties THINK ABOUT IT DOES THE G&F HAVE THE EXTRA MANPOWER AND RESOURCE ,BUDGET TO PROVIDE THIS SERVICE!! a lot of others mentioned / argued what difference does it make G&F will resell the tags its not fair to the next guy if he only has a few days or a weks notice ifsome hunter sits on a tag for 3 months before deciding next was to whom do these tags go it should be just like the cc turned down the next guy in line for the regular draw not some guy with money to get the first chance cuz in the the so called members club several times the club was referred to a way for the "LAZY" to pay extra to get things done, he really didn't want to do or really have time for or really didnt know much about - and get the bonus of first choice cuz hes a member I stated aloud that's to me that's BULL CHIT also the lawyers / guides / retails new laws thing was basically about legal paid advertising - I stated the wording wasnt really clear go to the meeting get a better idea I voted NO on the club idea' there is no new funding for the club or the portal - all taken out of existing fees i also commented that the sportsmen /hunters of this state would like to se somekind of improvement - spend funds to actually get a draw sytem/technology that would actually work and meet the set deadlines on time spend funds on fixing a problem not starting a new one

Belize - is that in Colorado ? lol

well - I actually attended the meeting - I know - pass the smelling salts to all those in need We are getting the portal come jan 2015 - basically a done deal it a new up to date- new technological website -that lets you login and interactively get and give G&F information on your interests - with possible access to buyin licenses - boat renewal etc - make it as detailed as you desire for yourself as for the hunting club - no one person was really excited or even thought it would fly . we can get early access to the draw using our cc the main discussion cover surrendered tags I guess I was the only one who really do want hunters to just be able to return tags - minus tag cost and keep ther bonus points heres what I sent in as my comment If they allow surrendered tags - there must be guidelines and penalties involved. besides loss of tag fees - 1- 25 dollar reprocessing fee 2- a loss of loyalty points for 5 yrs 3 - preferably a medical /doctors excuse that you physically can not hunt -then no loss of loyalty points or bonus points 4 - at least 2 weeks before season starts - not really fair to the new guy if its at a moments notice 5 -once in a lifetime - one species otherwise hunters will abuse the process point of interest - lets say of the 26,000 elk tags - .01 % decide for whatever reason to return there tags what will the cost of trying to get 260 new hunters a chance to go and how long will it take what if its 10 % can the department honestly be able basically redraw 2,600 tags in a minimum of time -say giving Each called person TWO or more tries to contact ? allowing surrendered tags will ultimately be a total pain in the rear if you do not implement a stiff penalty. now that's just elk - figure in all the other game species You'd need a new staff and a dedicated department to pull it off they are opening a can of worms that they may not be able to control I think that the only real reason to surrender a tag is medical- doctors excuse if they are to maintain bonus points other wise we all know anything can and does sometimes happen to change plans - lose everything -get over it A lot of hunters may use the surrender to draw a better unit or during better conditions etc. will happen! less likely if they know there are pentalties THINK ABOUT IT DOES THE G&F HAVE THE EXTRA MANPOWER AND RESOURCE ,BUDGET TO PROVIDE THIS SERVICE!! a lot of others mentioned / argued what difference does it make G&F will resell the tags its not fair to the next guy if he only has a few days or a weks notice ifsome hunter sits on a tag for 3 months before deciding next was to whom do these tags go it should be just like the cc turned down the next guy in line for the regular draw not some guy with money to get the first chance cuz in the the so called members club several times the club was referred to a way for the "LAZY" to pay extra to get things done, he really didn't want to do or really have time for or really didnt know much about - and get the bonus of first choice cuz hes a member I stated aloud that's to me that's BULL CHIT also the lawyers / guides / retails new laws thing was basically about legal paid advertising - I stated the wording wasnt really clear go to the meeting get a better idea I voted NO on the club idea' there is no new funding for the club or the portal - all taken out of existing fees

this was on a different site i copied for your thoughts and opinions http://azgfd.net/artman/publish/NewsMedia/What-would-you-think-of-a-new-online-club-for-hunters.shtml Here are the Commission Meeting notes from May where this insanity is further described, the minutes from April 11th also provides some details (page 14). http://www.azgfd.gov/inside_azgfd/documents/CommissionMeetingMinutesMay2-32014.pdf http://www.azgfd.gov/inside_azgfd/documents/20140411-12CommMtgMinutes.pdf Well, the people that tried to bring Arizona hundreds of auction tags, worthless expos and premium pricing at the species level are at it again. Despite the clear direction from the public that premium pricing and diverting tags from the public draw is generally despised by most Arizona hunters. This crafty group is proposing a club you can sign up for through the new Arizona Game and Fish portal that is being built. This club would have different levels, each level providing increasingly more benefits for those willing to pay higher club fees. The portal would track your club membership and store it with your “profile” information. I assume the website will serve up services commensurate with your profile, sort of a gatekeeper if you will. Unlike some clubs where you get a hat and a patch, the benefits of this club would provide options to club members unavailable to the unwashed masses of non-club but licensed Arizona hunters. Benefits like turning a tag back in and getting your bonus points back. Surprisingly absent in the description was anything proposed to prevent someone from using their points to bonus up a group application and then surrendering their tag (while everyone else on the application hunts) and doing it again the next year and the next year. I guess if you are a platinum CLUB member the concerns and hunt opportunity of non-club members are of little concern. Screw em. I can see a whole lot of bad coming out profile based services like what they are currently proposing. In an era where hunter recruitment is difficult, costs for gas and other items are increasing, tags and application fees are up. We now have a plan to add another layer of costs being proposed in order to ensure that hunters have a shot at the whole pie THEY ALREADY OWN. This idea manages to conflict with the North American Wildlife Model and chips away at our future hunter base at the same time, BRILLIANT! You cant make this stuff up. Here are some other questions I have… -How will the development of this new HOV lane for rich people be funded? Will any portion of the newly increased application fees go toward funding this garbage? It would be kind of sad if Average Joes are forced to tie their own noose. -Will non club members be required to use the portal for necessary things like applying for the hunt draw, if so can they opt out of third parties obtaining their profile information? Will profile information be available for sale? -What kind of business entity will this club be? Is it going to be another 501c3 living off the public dole by pilfering “incentive” tags from regular decent draw hunters? If so, we already have enough of those. -Is there a proposal in place to earn a higher club membership by doing things like helping out with a wildlife banquet? (Utah actually does this so it isn’t a stupid question, they call their club the dedicated hunter program and it is a train wreck). If so, this would be like Average Joes being forced to tie their own noose and flipping the hangman some freebie tags for the privilege. Insult to injury I think they call it. -Will this portal be developed independently for Arizona or will it be developed by a third party company that will develop it on top of existing code (that would inherit the bad design constraints and policies from some other state…..like maybe Utah). -One of the benefits proposed was “early draw results”. How will this be accomplished? I always felt like I was entitled to the earliest results AZGFD could provide. Part of my 13 bucks. Would additional time be added to non-club members in order to make club members feel special. If so, big thumbs down on that idea. -Was the lack of any controls for someone bonusing up a group app and then surrendering their tags and getting their points back an oversight or by design? We already have an issue with people bonusing up other people on group applications, this would only seem to exacerbate the problem. -Is there a specific financial need for a portal that nickel and dimes hunters? Just because there is technology to do it doesn’t mean it is a good idea. I was looking at meeting agendas for the last few months there seems to be a lot of budget money being transferred and pleas for grant requests. I didn't see many signs of financial desperation. -Why wasn’t this club membership idea killed earlier? Where is the common sense? Don’t we have people that are supposed to be advocating for public hunters….what the heck? How did this big stinky turd get past them? I could go on and on. If you think this is as bad an idea as I do you need to attend the public meetings about this. The meeting times and dates are in the first link above. The first meeting will be at the Game and Fish offices off of Carefree Highway tomorrow night (Thursday, June 26th) from 7-9 PM. With the fairly new legislation conveying more power to the Commission a portal like this could fast track some really bad stuff for Average Joes if we have the wrong mix of Commissioners in the future. This is one of those cases where Average Joes need to roll off the couch and show-up to the meeting, the entitled antler crowd will certainly be there and they are squeaky wheels. Numbers matter and this is every bit the risk that expo auction tags and the premium pricing proposal was. The Arizona Game and Fish portal has no business providing an infrastructure that divides hunters and provides exclusive access to hunt opportunities that should be available to anyone willing to pay the time and monetary cost to acquire the tag.

http://www.azgfd.gov/inside_azgfd/docum ... -32014.pdf go to page 7 look at the propose for future exclusive sales or special offers tied in with guides/retail partners- LEGAL AND LEGISLATIVE PROCESS PENDING its all a ploy to get what we defeated when we stopped the hp2072 and azsfw - its here agin to accomplish the same thing in a roundabout way its the same thing to give special treatment to those who can pay for it they stick in a sentence that they think will not be seen - what new laws are they going come up with so this "Hunting Club" can provide those services ! if this club is successful we'll see the same results had 2072 passed!! we better wake up as it here agin!!!

I'm not trying to make waves or ruffle feathers Most of the Taxidermists in AZ will have hands on all work that comes into their studio others do not - as over the yrs most have had help in one way or another with getting mounts done We have some of the very best in our State- They all try to do the very best job possible to single out just one as the best isn't really possible - in my opinion we can all be thankful for the great mounts that come out of the taxidermists from AZ A lot of guys do regular mounts- look good but are kinda look like every other mount look for the guy who does it differently - like changing a mold or form to give that unique look very few give the extra detail to get the WOW factor

why should anyone "HAVE PRIORITY " to surrendered tags total B.S. get to see early results they are so far behind with the online process- but hey we can provide an exclusive service to members of our club- AT WHAT EXPENCE to the rest of us - oh yeah your fees will help to pay some one -- to be available to get the early info for you how many new jobs will this make or do we use current personnel do an additional job total B.S. surrendering a tag cuz you don't like your draw is -- TOTAL B.S. ONLY POSSIBLE CONSIDERATION FOR A RETURN OF TAG/POINTS - medical / doctors STATEMENT THAT YOU ARE PHYSICALLY UNABLE TO HUNT! Manage the wildlife - G&F - do not try to manage a HUNTING CLUB

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/arizona/2014/06/18/wildlife-group-seeks-return-grizzly-bears-west/10828671/ An environmental group called on federal wildlife managers Wednesday to update a decades-old recovery plan for grizzly bears to ensure the animal's return to the Grand Canyon and other areas of the West. The Center for Biological Diversity, in a petition filed with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, accused the agency of using a fragmented approach as it tries to recover the threatened species. Efforts are currently focused on a fraction of the bear's historic range, but the petition identifies 110,000 square miles around the West that could provide suitable habitat. Those areas include a forested region straddling the Arizona-New Mexico line, the Grand Canyon, the Sierra Nevada in California, and parts of Utah and Colorado. The recovery plan for grizzlies dates to 1993. The Center for Biological Diversity, based in Tucson, says the plan needs to consider recent research that questions the long-term viability of the current grizzly population. "The science is clear that, if we're serious about recovering grizzly bears, we need more populations around the West and more connections between them so they don't fall prey to inbreeding and so they have a chance of adapting to a warming world," said Noah Greenwald, director of the center's endangered-species program. A spokesman for the Fish and Wildlife Service said Wednesday that the agency had not received the petition. He did not comment on whether the agency had any existing plans to update the grizzly's recovery plan. The agency did state as part of a review done in 2011 that the recovery plan was outdated and needed to consider other areas as potential habitat. According to the agency, an estimated 50,000 grizzlies roamed between the Pacific Ocean and Great Plains in the early 1800s. Their numbers were drastically reduced as more pioneers headed west. By 1975, when the bears were listed, only six of the 37 separate populations that were present just 50 years earlier remained. Today, grizzlies are found in five areas, including the Yellowstone region and along the northern Continental Divide. Federal wildlife managers have had mixed success in trying to reintroduce larger species, such as the gray wolf. Greenwald acknowledged there would be some opposition to the grizzly, but he said there seems to be more reverence surrounding the bear. "You drive around Montana and it's grizzly this and grizzly that," he said. "And in California, they're on the state flag. They're just such an iconic animal."

It's never been about the guys in the field doing the job they are paid to do! they are dedicated and professional though a few bad apples can probably be found in any barrel It's getting the people who actually decide the laws - to quit thinking budget and start knowing all these tags aren't gonna help the wildlife. the herds and number of animals are being destroyed from over harvest - its that simple the "survey" was a scam - quanity over quality in tags so people could say hey I got a tag is B.S. we all know it - they know it too

just so everyone knows - ITS NOT just deer - look at the non existence of the elk herds because of the over harvest of cow elk. I know I'm a broken record on this but its not just the deer !! G&F are no longer wildlife managers - they are allowing over harvesting to pay the bills!! they do this by allowing way to many tags you can not cut the number of tags without putting stress on the budget --PERIOD since the good old survey - I 'd bet tag numbers have gone up 500% -they invented new hunts (dates) to squeeze in more hunts - 600 oct tags in a lot of deer units - we never hunted in oct before survey every hunt unit in this Sate - basically has non- stop hunting for deer and or elk starting in aug and runs thru the end of the yr! question - is it time to allow doe tags ? most guys I know are seeing dozens of does before ever finding a buck or at least make SOME of the youth hunts for does in areas of screwed up buck/doe ratio

yep jackit up or dig it out -- put -runner rails on the bottom - place round roller logs to new location - shouldn't be a problem if only 30 yrds to roll it over use a comealong or a good 4x4 with new u joints - lol

WTF is right obummers brothers released --let the worst mad dogs run again with the pack for a sniveling traitor

In this state why would you let a deer killing machine walk it's a female - shoot it - it makes 2-3 more deer killing machines a yr . they say a cat will kill a deer or big animal a week - I do not know about you but where I hunt - I'd be a happy camper to see 55 deer in a yr let alone lose that many out of the small numbers we have in most areas !!

when have they ever not extended the draw ? answer paper apps they raise tags / fees etc - especially the processing fee if we are paying extra for processing one would think they'd by now get a system that works they posted Monday on their Official site news updates - LAST NOTICE- draw ends tomorrow on the 10 th 7 PM guys and gals whom wait for the last minute = TOO BAD they were allways over crowded/crashing when the due date was on a Monday that's why they went to Tuesday - now they still give one more day gotta get that money ! People you know - if you wait till the last possible minute -for whatever reason- your MISTAKE next they will be extending the post markings on envelopes - whats the difference If you snooze you lose yep we set a dead line but guess what its not actually an official deadline total B.S.

first glance ----- short bobbed curly tail - BOBCAT they come in an all phases of spot and patterns - none which looks like a jaguar I wouldn't worry about the G&F thinking its a Jag

all the hoopla - chrome didnt run his best race - that's what it take to win the big 3 when its all said and done - the jockey kinda let him down by putting him in a position where he normally loses - that my .02 he didn't win the first 2 by being back in the pack and then on the outside trying to catch-up

there are little to no whitetails left in 21 - especially the late dec hunt--that's why it's been first choice for 30 plus yrs - lol good luck on your draw - closer to home anyway

if you have a bag that is comfortable- all you really need is a heavy duct canvas type tarp - kinda use it like a taco shell - 1/2 to get you off the cold ground and the other cover over you - to cut and cold or morning dew the other method I use - go to local goodwill buy the huge (2) quilts for pennys on the dollar - fold one 1/2 to lay on and cover over your bag with the other easy way to stay toasty warm they come in handy and have so many uses around camp from covering ice chests - can be used to keep game meat from sun etc . but nothing like a big comfortable sleeping bag - slumber jack -0 bag -- 2 thumbs up

I would have tried 2 options 1- motion sensor so red lights came on when they got near the feeder to shoot them 2- illuminate he feeder area and or use night vision scope on my crossbow or gun and set in a nearby blind or stand and then shot them good luck with your new pests

please post a link to where you find hunting report talking about sonoran oufitters and todd -

here ya go- if they look like this its a coatimundi fer sure

I hope to make a trip for the wisc general deer season - from the 15th nov to the 15 of dec - yes a whole month . so I can hunt the archery - rifle and muzzleloader - all on the same tag- its only one buck but I can hunt all 3 season if that's what it takes ! doe tags are like 2.50 not sure on the limit but they are generous - lol that way if and when I draw my second dec. tag I can just get home and hunt here too or maybe an oct tag before I leave - lol plans are to drop a few does early and have sausage made up to ship home lots of areas for public hunting though they do get crowded - like I mentioned on a similar trip 2 yrs ago opening day rifle - thousands of shots - almost non stop from dawn to dusk coming from every direction in a relative small area of 5 square miles - as I don't think you can hear a rifle shot any father than that in the north wooded areas

I guess if I need to ask how much you are selling it for $$$$ then I can't afford it anyway!

sorry - I tend to rant - lol no hostility meant - I love to hunt also - its not like we can go out every yr -yr in and yr out and have tags for does, bucks during archery - muzzy handgun and rifle - like a lot of these "eastern " states - where they take 30 animals a yr go out hunt hard - that's what its all about - have fun I personally do not think sitting in a box waiting for "programed " animals to show -up is that much fun I do know that in a lot of private areas back east - you are very limited in where you hunt and have to take advantage of every possible technique to harvest an animal - I'd sit in a box over looking a hay bail in sub zero weather - if it was my only opportunity .! hope everyone gets the chance to chase and tag a buck this fall - good luck in the draw guys and gals

Such a a simple solution - GO BACK TO PAPER ONLY!!