washingtondc

Are there two types of white-tailed deer in the Ft Davis Mountains? I have seen distinct groups with some looking like the larger Texas white-tailed deer and others looking like the Coues deer. I have also been to the Huachuca Mountains and Chiricahua Mountains where I have also photographed Coues deer. I have photographs of Carmen Mountain white-tailed deer in Chisos Mountains of Big Bend National Park. Their ears are smaller than Coues deer.

The Mike Fabritz link is no longer there. I would like to get a Klondyke Butte print if it is available. It was the painting with mountain backdrop with Course deer bounding. I am in the area until Wednesday.

I disagree with this map for Southern California label of desert mule deer. The deer in the Traverse Ranges north of Los Angeles are California mule deer. The Deer of the mountains and hills south of San Gabriel and Pomona Valleys are Southern mule deer (Baja mule deer). It is possible historically that the deer of Los Angeles area were a hybrid between California mule deer and Southern mule deer. Not desert mule deer. Also Southern part of Baja may be a different subspecies of mule deer. I also think inland San Bernardino, Riverside, and Imperial Counties have lowland desert areas where mule deer are absent until the Arizona border.

My latest - Coues deer in Madera Canyon (watercolor)

My latest watercolor of Coues Whitetail deer in Madera Canyon.

This is the best white-tailed deer plush toy out on market for any white-tailed deer enthusiast is available at http://www.stuffedsafari.com. The best American elk plush toy (also bugles) is available at http://www.sportsmans.com. All I can say is, it's about time!

There is something fascinating with white-tailed deer of the West and how they find their niche amongst several large herbivores. They are my favorite North American deer. I enjoyed viewing the Northwest white-tailed deer in Idaho Panhandle (in my profile) and Texas white-tailed deer in the Hill Country (decades ago). I look forward to see the Coues deer in AZ or NM. If I do New Mexico I would like to visit Fort Bayard (Coues deer) and Cloudcroft (Texas white-tailed deer) in the Sacramento Mountains. The other would be the Columbian white-tailed deer in Roseburg, OR. These past few years have been a first for me dabbing into photography while combining sketching and painting.

The top is my first drawing/watercolor of Coues white-tailed deer. Inspiration came from a photograph I have seen here on this forum, plus a famous Arizona White-tailed deer painting by Louis Agassiz Fuertes seen in Wild Animals of North America. The bottom is a larger scaled version using oil paints. The drawing is slightly different. I am wondering if acrylics is easier.

On the contrary, white-tailed deer do live in Guyana.

Wow, those are great shots! So...the deer is called Coues' Deer (is this the correct way?) I just wish more books on white-tailed deer would show side-by-side pictures and perhaps discuss these "observations". As a lay reader and non-biology reader, I confess that some of the readings are tough for me to understand. Sometimes I am not even sure if they get to the point either. The "thesis" I saw on separating northern and southern whitetailed deer was a research paper (pdf file) that seemed to be done by a student/researcher at a university in one of the Central American countries. The paper was both in English and Spanish. I don't seem to find it on the internet anymore...or at least I haven't been researching "hard enough" for it. The reading that discussed possibly several "subspecies" of white-tailed deer, last I remember, was really based on records and observations from past...early settlers maybe? You're right, such information really is not reliable as it is really hard to prove...and it was not written as factual...but more as a documentation. These observations were from lay people or perhaps people of science who lacked the methodologies of today. I am always on the lookout for the latest on white-tailed deer genetics...but as an animal artist...the photographs and pictures attract me more to the book. Some books that are good are "Whitetails in Action" and "Amazing Whitetails" by Mike Biggs...he has some great Texas white-tailed deer photographs. I have these two books at home too. The Whitehead Encyclopedia of Deer, I purchased in Seattle...it is a rare book that I paid good money for, but was well worth it. BTW, I have a compendium of red deer from Dr. Geist that separates this animal into 3 species (European Red Deer, Central Asian Red Deer, Asian and American Wapitis). Like I said earlier...I tend to side with Dr. Geist on his red deer and mule deer research. But, he doesn't write much on white-tailed deer. washingtondc

Unless whitetails were brought to that part of South America...it must be another species. White-tailed deer are in the northern part of South America.

Bill, Thank you for clarifying your experience in viewing pictures of white-tailed deer. I respect works from Dr. Geist and I do have the Whitehead's Encyclopedia of Deer. So you say that my belief does not hold water? Well, perhaps...I confess that I haven't seen a lot of pictures of these animals as you have...so yes, you have more experience than me. I have seen several books on white-tailed deer...and it would be great if there were books with photographs showing such regional variations of deer in the SE United States. However, I am interested in knowing what distinguishes these different deer, and have had a tough time finding good photos that show clear distinctions. The white-tailed deer is a cool animal, and I would love to see some of the photos that you have seen. I just wish a lot of this stuff would be made available. I did read Dr. Geist's work, and I think he is good with red deer and wapiti. I do like his stuff on mule deer too. The white-tailed deer, however, I don't know what other sources are available. But, I would love to see what you have seen. I know that some northern white-tailed deer have dark black on the their muzzle that goes near the eyes...but I don't know if this is distinctly a northern white-tailed deer thing. cheers, washingtondc

That's what I am guessing..... Of course the genetic analysis might change all that! Amanda Ever since reading Dr. Geist's publications...it would be interesting if white-tailed deer genetics and mtDNA were revisited, the question is feasibility. The constraint with Central and South American white-tailed deer is that many populations are already threatened or extinct...due to hunting practices and politics in those regions. It doesn't seem to be feasible...perhaps in Mexico this is a possibility(?). I think Costa Rica...it would be feasible...Venezuela...I am not sure either, there was some political instability...and I am not sure about Venezuela's relations with USA. White-tailed deer are very popular game animals...and I think that collectively, we, as Americans, may take them for granted. I think the white-tailed deer subspecies of the Northwestern and Southwestern United States are distinct. I think the Key deer is also distinct. What is ambiguous are the deer populations in the East Coast with the restocking histories. It seems like the Southern white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus virginianus) may be a mix of several deer from Texas, Midwest, and Great Lakes...I think the Kansas white-tailed deer may be mixed between Texas, Northern, and Southern deer. I am not even sure what clearly distinguishes Dakota, Northern, Kansas, or Virginian white-tailed deer other than possibly the size. I have looked at several Outdoor Life magazines...and these deer look the same to me! I draw these animals...and still can't tell what is distinctive. I know that Texas white-tailed deer are distinctive...Coue's deer with their large ears are distinctive. Northwest white-tailed deer are more yellowish...and distinctive in that way... I even read somewhere that there were once several subspecies in the Southwest, but due to hunting...the Texas, Coue's, and Carmen Mountains deer are the surviving subspecies...while the rest either were hunted to extinction or absorbed/assimilated into the Texas white-tailed deer? Heck, you'd think that with our country and most populous East Coast/Southern States...we should easily find out these things? There is ambiguity in the indigenous wolf population in East coast too! There are wolves in Algonquin Provincial Park...and now scientists don't think that there are really Eastern Timber wolves...and instead, Red Wolves? red wolf/gray wolf hybrids?, coyote/wolf/red wolf hybrids?...They can't make up their minds on this...

I just got this book too...and it came in the mail yesterday!

I am not a biology major...and yes, I am an outdoor nut...I draw a lot of these animals and like reading on them. I started by drawing a lot of these animals...then it turned into a hobby where I was actually reading about these animals and learning of their distinguishing features to try and draw them more precisely. I think the best books are "Deer of the World" by Dr. Valerius Geist, and "White-Tailed Deer: Ecology and Management" by Lowell K. Hall (Editor). I've been meaning to ask Dr. Geist if the scientific community is separating the North and South American white-tailed deer into two species...I have seen a thesis on this somewhere on the internet. There is something fascinating with the open plains/savanna adapted animals. I am also looking into information on the Spanish Red Deer that lives in the Chaparral Habitats of Southern Spain.