desertdog

Yep we are on the same page bro!!!

You see Casey that's just it. I dont dispute that a .243 wont get it done. heck that would be stupid many elk have fallen to a .243. But its those dang limitations that you speak of that will make me shy away from the lighter weight calibers every time, if your looking for one gun to hunt all kinds of big game with. I say pick the .270, 30-06, or .280 (only if your reloading), and you will have a great round with plenty for bullet choices. light recoil. but plenty of power to get the job done on deer or elk. And I know you were not saying go with the .243

I wouldn't recomend the. 243 for elk. Just my humble opinion however.

and who gets to decide what is a long range shot? Excellent question, and I believe that has to come down to the person pulling the trigger. Only that person knows if they should be taking the shot or not. We as friends or family may have insight or input but it rests with the shooter IMHO. And I am all for a person testing their limits or going for personal bests pending the situation. But like drinking know when to say when. And I have a very liberal view on the long shot question.

Well this is a interesting topic. And I don’t know exactly how to put into words my feelings on the subject. I think out if all the posts I am in more of Larks view point. Very well said Lark. I have a much bigger problem with the people that waste meat, don’t go to check to see if they have made a hit after they have fired on an animal, and those that leave behind dirty camps and drive off roads and do great damage to pastures. The longest shot I have took and made was at 440 yards. It was a one shot one kill type of deal. I was hunting with my best friend (brother). He past up the shot because he was using a new rifle that year and was not familiar/comfortable with it out to that range. I have been carrying the same gun, using the same load for that gun for over 15 years. I was not even sure if I was gunna take the shot but I had a rock solid rest, there was no wind, weather was clear and just perfect. I felt steady and it worked out just like a charm, perfect. Having said that I have missed deer at much closer ranges. Not only missed them but wounded them and had to put a second one in them to get the job done. I don’t like it when it happens but this is a imperfect sport/hobby/way of life. I grew up being taught by my dad, uncles, great uncles, family friends and by my grandpa. Now he is a man that grew up hunting not for sport or thrill or for antler size. He grew up hunting to feed his family. Sisters, brothers, parents, wife kids, the list goes on. He instilled a “when you get your chance you better not miss attitude” in my dad and myself. He had that attitude not because it sucks and it feels bad when you miss. But because when he was growing up if he or one of his brothers missed people would be going hungry for awhile. He definitely grew up and passed down “ethics” or a code. But passing up on a long shot was not in his vocabulary. Now I don’t mean 5 or 600 yard shots, but 300 yard shots were common place, and shots at that distance were and still are ones that is expected to be made. He grew up hunting with open sights of course. And he still talks about the first person in the family (his brother) to get a telescope as he calls it, and how it changed the game of long distant shots. I guess I fall back on what I was taught by him and my dad. Know you limits. Don’t just start flinging lead out there and see what happens. Know the situation and know your surrounding. Calm yourself and slow the situation down and take the best shot you can. Don’t be scared to take a long shot but also know when it is to long for you or the situation is not right. Common sense I guess is what it comes down to.

I don't know Bill it is just hard to explain. I guess one has to be a sports fan to understand why people love watching sports. I am not much of a reality TV guy myself but sports is the original reality TV in a way. You never know what is going to happen next, nothing is predestined. All the drama is playing out before your eyes. In a lot of our cases we played these sports in high school or college and we have a love for the sport and the dedication and skill it takes to compete at such a high level. It is hard to understand how skilled these guys (and women) really are. It is very hard to comprehend how a guy that is 6-4 330lbs is faster, more nimble and agile than 99% of the general public. And when you see these guys (or women) perform in person its hard not to have respect for their skill set. Simply its a blast to watch and admire. Its the same with woman’s softball, volleyball, hockey etc. For me it is much different than watching hunting or fishing on TV simply because we can all hunt and fish. Yes some better than others, I know that argument is coming . But very few have the god given abilities to play sports at a high level. I know sports is not every one's cup of tea and thats cool. Just like I have friends that dont care for hunting. They understand why I love it and have no problem with hunting but it just does not intrest them.

HAHA you have to look out for those ranchers in that area. Especially one family in particular I know you know who I am talkin about

Bear Down Arizona!!!!!!!

I understand PHX is not a college town and how that effects support for ASU and their teams. However that should not have much barring on ASU and their football recruiting. As a matter of fact that should be a major plus for your program. Given the choice kids want to play in a city that has options for entertainment. Because of the pro sports teams and that PHX is so large it has major media coverage and no shortage of coverage for ASU athletes. Being in a large city has not hurt USC. They have brought in top talent year in year out. Albeit so of that talent was a little shady, but most is and was on the up and up. ASU should be bringing in top talent on a yearly basis and the size of the city and the pro sports teams should be a major factor why.

Okay maybe I was over he line with the ASSU bit. But the question I asked is a serious one. I think you will be hard pressed to find many UofA fans that will admit that if ASU can put things together the rest of the conference is in for some hard times. Especially now that USC is on probation and their loss of scholarships. UCLA is not going any where, and Washington is still rebuilding. Do you have any thought on this.........I am not being a smart a$$ just want your take.

Devil I pointed out Erickson’s record because in your prior posts you never maid a single mention of not being pleased with Erickson and wanting to get rid of him. However you bring up Koetter and use him as an example of how ASU does not settle with mediocrity. But you conveniently skip over your current coach and how he is bringing ASSU along. As far as Stoops yes he is in year seven. And yes at this point Cat fans can stop pointing to the Makovic era as a excuse for bad teams. I never used Makovic as a scapegoat for Stoops. I just pointed out how down the program was when Stoops took over and was making the point that for the first few years you have to give him or any coach a pass to see if they can turn the program around. Stoops has done that. That is not questionable. Fir the past three years the Cats have had a better record that your beloved Sun Devils. Is the gap narrowing? I guess we will have to wait tell next year to find out and see how the two programs finish the season and we can compare records. As far as this year goes yes you have bragging rights but the Cats have had a better year. They have the better overall record and are playing in a bowl. No matter how you try to spin it playing in a bowl is a accomplishment, it is good for the program win or loose, and will pay dividends for the UofA and the rest of the programs in the Pac-10 because of revenue sharing. So your welcome. Because of the Cats winning ways your looser program gets a free payday. Stoops will get a few more years to see if he has reached his ceiling for many different reasons. But a major one is that he has produced a winning product on the field which is more than can be said for Dennis Ericson and ASSU. And as for the 7th place or not argument. Check out the official Pac-10 website. http://www.pac10.org/Sports/Football/Stand...eason=2010/2011 That is officially a three way tie for 5th place. Listen we can go on and on with this pissing match. But you being a Devil fan I would really like to get your opinion on something. As much as I hate ASU I have always felt they are a sleeping giant in the Pac-10. They have all the tools to be a serious national football power (weather, they are in one of the US largest cities, good facilities, money etc.) but can never seem to put it together consistently. Why isn’t your program challenging for the Pac-10 year in and year out like they should be?

Okay SunDevil my friend sense you don’t understand or comprehend the facts I posted about basketball let me explain it for you. It means the ASU basketball program will be in their rightful place under the Cats boot heals for a very long time. It does not mean that we WILL have a better team in a few years it means we have a better team NOW!!!!!!! this year. The thing I did not mention was the recruits Miller brought in this year. I would tell you about them but you will find out about them soon enough. In my first post I already said that ASU deserved to win the game. Please don’t tell me I cant point out missed opportunities. Fact is it is the same as you saying “well if Steven Threet played” blah blah blah. And your really going to preach to me and all the UofA fans about having a football coach that will never get us to the Rose Bowl and we are settling for mediocrity. Do you have the slightest idea what old drunk Dennis Erickson’s record is at ASU? That would be 17-19 in the Pac-10 and 24-25 overall. Hummm seems pretty darn mediocre to me. And yes I do know Stoop’s record at UofA is 40-44 overall but he took over a program that was a complete disaster and has built it into a consistent winner and bowl team. So yes I will choose Stoops over Erickson any day. Stoops teams have been improving every year as Ericson’s teams have been deteriorating. In order ASU record sense Erickson has taken over is as fallows. 2007 10-3 2008 5-7 2009 4-8 2010 6-6 Not exactly setting the world on fire now is he? You pointing out that the Cats are going to “meaningless bowl games” in your words is laughable. Let me put it in terms that you may understand. You bagging on the Cats for going to a bowl and you as a ASU fan sitting at home for the third straight year is a pathetic at best. Will the Cats be blown maybe, maybe not. But even if they are it will not hurt their recruiting efforts. Sorry but college athletes given the choice will choose to go to a school that is going to bowls and winning the majority of their games over a school that has a loosing record every year and has no shot at going to a bowl. Oh and if your going to keep bagging on the Cats please get your facts straight. They are not 7th in the pac-10 this year they are tied for 5th with ASU and Oregon St.

Please for the love of all that is holy pin this thread. SunDevil I didn't miss that play from last year. However I will give you that muffed punt AND the game winning field goal and that is still not as wired or unheard of as TWO missed PAT's in one game. How many football games do you see that has a muffed punt and a game winning field goal...........lots. How many games do you see that has TWO missed PAT's buy the same kicker. One to win the game and the other to extend the game in over time. This is the first I have ever seen and would guess it is the first for many long time football watchers and players like myself. If you don't recognize how rare and truly freakish that is I don't thank I know more football than you i am certain of it. But saying one knows more football than a Sun Devil fan is not somthing to grandstand about is it? As far as 7th in the Pac goes what was the Sun devils Pac record 4-5. And the Cats you guessed it 4-5. So I would stop calling the Cats bad unless you will recognize how under achieving the ASU program is. Plus how many ranked teams did ASU beat this yrear? thas right none. One of the Cats 7 wins was against a top 10 (at that time) Iowa team. Oh and very smart not talking about the basketball stuff I posted.

I will let Millers hard work speak for its self and answer your question about Arizona Basketball recruiting. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/...tory?id=5592573 "ESPNU 100 PG Josiah Turner (Sacramento, Calif./Sacramento) has committed to coach Sean Miller and the Arizona Wildcats. The No. 3-ranked point guard in the 2011 class is the most physically gifted point guard prospect in the West, regardless of class." http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/...tory?id=5477285 "What stands out about the No. 8-ranked shooting guard in the country is that he has the ability to grab a defensive rebound, push it ahead and look to score or find an open teammate. He is one of the best finishers in the country thanks to his toughness and ability to finish at the rim, along with the talent to pull up and shoot from 3 in transition. He also has point guard attributes and always seems to make the right decision. Plus, he's fantastic coming off ball screens -- scoring or creating -- and will be prevalent in the Wildcats' pick-and-roll game." http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-ba...dsidiki-johnson "According to ESPN team affiliate site www.wildcatsportsreport.com, new Arizona head coach Sean Miller landed his first commitment from the Class of 2011 on Saturday when power forward Sidiki Johnson picked the Wildcats. Johnson chose UA over interest from Kentucky, Providence, Xavier and West Virginia among many others." http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/...tory?id=5859611 "After putting together the most impressive class in the Pac-10 during the early signing period, Arizona coach Sean Miller just received a great boost to his 2012 haul by landing junior PF Grant Jerrett, who is No. 12 in the ESPNU Super 60. Jerrett, from LaVerne (Calif.) Lutheran High School, chose the Wildcats over UCLA, Washington, Duke, North Carolina, USC, Texas and Kansas." So lets recap........ Josiah Turner the 3rd rated Point Guard in the country Nick Johnson the 8th rated Shooting guard in the country Sidiki Johnson the 11th ranked Power Forward in the country all in signed for the 2011 class. Then he fallows up by signing Grant Jarrett who is ranked the 12 best player in the nation in the 2012 class by ESPN. And signs is highly ranked teammate Eric Cooper Jr. for the 2013 class. I hope the ASU Basketball team and their fans have enjoyed the wins they have gotten against Arizona in their down years because starting now ASU will be back to being the Cats chew toy. As far as the football game if you call kicking a field goal in the final seconds to win (thats what happened last year when the Cats won) as freakish as missing not one but 2 PAT's then you sir are misguided and I really question you knowledge of the game. Listen I am not saying the reason the Cats lost is because of those two PAT's but it was a huge part of the game. The Cats did not capitalize on the opportunities (dropping three interceptions) the Devils gave them and it cost the Cats dearly. Plus the fumble didn’t help either. That’s how the cookie crumbles and ASU dissevered the win. Yes UofA is very lucky to be playing in the Alamo bowl. However it is not all luck. They still put themselves in the spot to be chosen before any other Pact-10 team because of their record. ASU could be in the Cats spot and benefit from Oregon and Stanford playing in BCS bowls but for some odd reason they could not get bowl eligible. Hummm funny how that works. heck their last bowl was in 07. Thanks for playing

Don't worry about our Basketball program it will be just fine. Miller is making the rest of the Pac-10 look bad on the recruiting trail, and proving to be a darn good coach. As far as Football goes you may have pulled out a freakish win.......I guess I have to give you credit for that. However I would not talk to much crap......the Cats are playing in our third straight bowl game, and lead the overall series 46-37. Try scheduling some better opponents and maybe you guys would be in a bowl as well. The bowl game with Oklahoma St. is going to be very interesting.

I would not say it paints hunters in a bad light I would describe it more as you just see the most ignorant, crooked, poor excuse for sportsman among us. I guess from their point of view how boring of a show would it be if all you see is the Wardens checking the responsible hunters out there. Of course we all want to see the action. I do wish that there was more references that what you are watching are the extreme exception and that the great majority of hunters are responsible sportsman that try to uphold the laws. I can definitely see some non-hunters watching the show and coming away with a sour taste in their mouth for hunting and sportsman as a whole. Not because the show is bad or paints sportsman in a negative light but just for the sole reason that they are not hunters and don’t realize that most hunters are not like what you see on television. As for the Game Warden shortage in AZ I was talking to a Warden a few years back and seem to remember him telling me that you also have to have a biology degree to become a Warden. Its not like normal law enforcement where they can just hire someone off the street and send them through the academy to teach them what they need to get started. So if I am correct I can see why there are not to many people lining up to fill those spots when in my opinion they are grossly under paid for all that is in their job description.

I have never heard of Coues but my best friends dad killed a Muley doe with antlers once. He went up to gut it out and thought someone was playing a trick and attached the antlers somehow I wont say what he called it but the first word rhymed with deer. It was his ***** deer.

Good luck man don't give up. i have really enjoyed fallowing your hunt I am pulling for you big time. I hope you can hunt all day to last light. It is a great feeling when you tag out on your last day in the closing hours. Even if it is a small buck. I hope you dont have to wait that long though!!!!!

Tonight "The High Road" on the pursuit channel will be in Mexico hunting Coues. My TV guide says 9:00 here in Tucson I am sure it will be different for some others especially if your out of state. Just a heads up as we dont get to see Coues on these hunting channels very often. It will be interesting to see how they approch the hunt. Who knows it probobly is a re-run and you may have already seen it.

that's great..............good luck to you guys. Getting him in that shoot should really help him out when the time comes to make the big shot. I mean there is no substatue for the real thing but putting your self in pressure situations cant hurt and will only make you better.

My guess Steven the reason people are hammering you is because this was a well know and often photographed deer that was deep into private land. Now does that mean you did anything wrong or illegal? Of course not. We all know that animals are unpredictable creatures and can do some crazy things. But I think what Hancock and others are getting at is why would this buck travel over three miles from private land where he had good feed Permanente water and no hunting pressure to public land. If you have some pictures of the land you were on right after your hunter made the kill that shows you were on public that would shut everyone up for good. I have a pic of the wet buck from July of 09 and he was over three miles from public. Now once again let me be clear that I am not accusing you of ANY wrong doing. Just wanted to post the picture I have and jump in the conversation.

I know its a long shot but does anyone have any loads they have worked up for a 25-35. I am wanting to use the 117gr bullet. I have some data but just wanted to see if anyone has a good load they are willing to share. Thanks for reading.

Wow man that really sucks. A few years back me my dad and best fried were sitting under my dads back porch enjoying a mid summers night monsoon storm grilling up some burgers and the next thing we knew ZAP.....the house was struck by lightning. It was the loudest high pitched sound we had ever heard. After we got though cleaning out our pants and the women folk came out to make sure we made it through the blast we took inventory of what was lost in the house. TV, computer, Microwave, phone were all toast. No carpet on fire that is wild!!!!!!

So I am sitting here watching the show and wonder if anyone else has caught on to the show? If so why in the heck do they keep putting Kelly up. Does not make to much sense to me!!!!

Well Kelly made it through again HAHAHA!!!!!