MRL1984

DESERT MULE DEER Odocoileus hemionus crooki Buro, Venado mula del desierto (Sp), Maultierhirsch (G), Cerf mulet du desert (F). DESCRIPTION The desert mule deer is similar to the Rocky Mountain mule deer, although slightly smaller, paler in color and with a smaller rump patch. The typical desert mule deer (crooki race) has a comparatively small forehead patch and a dark line running partway down its tail. The southern mule deer (fuliginatus race) is dark-colored with a dark line down its back and almost no white on the tail. The peninsula mule deer (peninsulae race) is pale with a dark line down its back and more white on its tail than the southern mule deer. In all desert mule deer, the antlers are not as heavy or as high as in Rocky Mountain mule deer. Desert mule deer racks tend to have wide spreads, and many lack brow tines. BEHAVIOR Has adapted successfully to extremely harsh conditions-great heat and also intense cold, meager forage, scarce water, and lack of vegetative cover. HABITAT Desert and semi-arid regions. DISTRIBUTION California: The extreme south, in Riverside, Imperial, Orange and San Diego counties. Arizona: South of Highway 68 from Davis Dam on Lake Mohave eastward to Kingman on Interstate 40, then south of Interstate 40 between Kingman and the intersection with Hwy 93, then southwest of Hwy 93 southward between Kingman and Wickenburg, then south of latitude 34°N eastward between Wickenburg and Carrizo on Hwy 60, then west of Hwy 60 southward between between Carrizo and Globe on Hwy 70, then south of Hwy 70 between Globe and Safford, then south of Hwys 191 and 78 from Safford to the New Mexico border. New Mexico: South of Highway 78 from the Arizona border eastward to Hwy 180, then southwest of Hwy 180 through Silver City to the intersection with Hwy 152, then south of Hwy 152 to Caballo on Interstate 25, then east of Interstate 25 northward to Bernardo on Hwy 60, then south of Hwy 60 eastward to Fort Sumner on Hwy 84, then south of Hwy 60/84 to the Texas border. Texas: Most desert mule deer are found in the trans-Pecos region west of the Pecos River, but they also occur in a number of places in the Panhandle region. The game department considers all mule deer in Texas to be desert mule deer, either native populations or from 1949-1968 transplants from the trans-Pecos desert mule deer herd. We accept this in the absence of conflicting opinion. Mexico: Baja California, northern Sonora, northern Chihuahua, and northwestern Coahuila. TAXONOMIC NOTES Five subspecies listed by Wallmo comprise the SCI desert mule deer category: crooki (typical desert mule deer), from southeastern California, southern Arizona and New Mexico, western Texas, northern Sonora and Chihuahua, and northwestern Coahuila; fuliginatus (southern mule deer), from southwestern California through northern Baja California; peninsulae (peninsula mule deer), from the southern half of Baja California; sheldoni (Tiburon Island mule deer); and cerrosensis (Cedros Island mule deer). The name crooki Mearns, 1897 has priority. The formerly recognized buro deer (eremicus) (buro is colloquial Mexican for mule deer) is now included within crooki. STATUS The Cedros Island mule deer (O. h. cerrosensis) is listed as endangered by the USF&WS (1975) and the IUCN, and may not be imported in the United States. It and the Tiburon Island mule deer (O. h. sheldoni) were once feared extinct, but both survive and are legally protected. The other races are secure. ROCKY MOUNTAIN MULE DEER Odocoileus hemionus hemionus Venado mula de las Rocosas (Sp), Maultierhirsch (G), Cerf mulet (F). Called mule deer because of its large ears. DESCRIPTION The usual buck will stand 40-42 inches (102-107 cm) at the shoulder and weigh 175-200 pounds (80-90 kg), but weights of 300 pounds (135 kg) are not uncommon in some areas. The female is smaller. A medium-sized deer, rather heavily built for a deer, with a thickset body and legs and rather large feet. The ears are long and wide, resembling those of a mule. The antlers of a mature buck are large and widespread. The summer coat is thin and varies in color from tan to rusty-red. The rump, belly and inside of legs are white. Face and throat are whitish, with a black patch on the forehead and a black bar around the chin. Tail is white with a black tip, and sometimes the base of the tail is brown. The underside tail hairs are not erectile and the tail is not used for signaling. The thick winter coat is brownish-gray. Preorbital, tarsal, metatarsal and interdigital glands are present. The metatarsal glands are about five inches (12.7 cm) in length and located closer to the hock than the hoof. (On a blacktail, these glands are 2-1/2 to 3 inches (6.4 to 7.6 cm) in length and are located about halfway between hock and hoof.) BEHAVIOR Lives in small family groups of does, yearlings and fawns. Bucks are usually solitary, or sometimes in very small bachelor groups. A group is likely to be spread out rather than in close association. The rut begins in October and lasts two months. Dominance fights between males are less competitive than in other deer species, being largely bluff. Fawns (usually two, sometimes three) are born May-June. Life expectancy 8-12 years in the wild, as much as 20 years in captivity. Feeds mainly in early morning and evening, usually resting at midday and night. Primarily a browser, but will graze on occasion. Mule deer are migratory in mountainous areas, summering as high as 8,000 feet (2,400 m), and retreating to lower elevations in winter to avoid deep snows. Migration distances may be 50 miles (80 km) or more. Senses of smell and hearing are acute, vision less so. Able to run 35 mph (56 km/h) for short distances, but unable to maintain speed for long. Bounds away in a series of high leaps when disturbed. Can cover 25 feet (7.6 m) horizontally in a single leap. A very strong swimmer. Main predators are coyotes, but also cougars. HABITAT Adaptable to a wide range of western habitat from prairie to alpine to semi-desert, with a preference for open or semi-open country. DISTRIBUTION Southwestern Canada, and the western United States north of the line established for desert mule deer. REMARKS A large mule deer buck is a superb trophy and a fine game animal, although perhaps less difficult to take than the sneaky, brush-loving whitetail. Hunted mostly by glassing and stalking, sometimes by waiting on stands. Popular lore holds that a jumped mule deer will always stop after 100 yards (90 m) to look back, but hunters should not count on this, as unwary bucks seldom grow old enough to develop trophy antlers. TAXONOMIC NOTES Two subspecies listed by Wallmo comprise the SCI Rocky Mountain mule deer category: hemionus (Rocky Mountain mule deer) and californicus (California mule deer), with hemionus Rafinesque, 1817 having priority. The formerly recognized Inyo mule deer (inyoensis) is no longer considered valid and is included within californicus. STATUS There were millions of mule deer in North America prior to European settlement, but their numbers declined to 500,000 by 1900 after years of market hunting and habitat destruction. Since then, regulation and management efforts have increased numbers to about 5-1/2 million, with an annual sport harvest of 500,000. Populations are secure, and mule deer are expanding their range. Well I googled it and found this information directly on SCI's website. Hope it helps. Yes I am now your google master.

I read that Phoenix was number 2 in the world for kidnappings for ransom, behind you may be able to guess, Mexico City. As far as hunting south of the line, hunt where you want. If you don't like it or feel safe, then don't go. Its no doubt going to be worse as time progresses, the cartels are getting more and more brave. I feel it will be less safe to spend time around the border as they become more aggressive. Unforunately for some it will be mean less time enjoying the country they enjoy for fear of happening across the cartel. The scariest post I've seen here involved what appeared to be hunters who "drew down" on a CWT member as he drove by. Sorry I can't remember who's post it was or the whole story, but it was in the same type thread about this time last year. It appears more and more bad things are going on down around the border. As with most things I fear it will only get worse before it gets better. Until then I will drive through the check points set up by the Border Patrol on my way to hunt and on my way home from the hunt.

I believe they have about 6 in custody for this in Tecate Mexico. The shooter was found with the BP issue gun and was pointed out as the shooter by the rest of the group. He was also the one who was wounded by the officer in the attack. Let us remember it can happen anywhere and always be vigilant of our surroundings, but never in fear of our surroundings. God bless the children and wife. 10-7 Brother.

I've heard quite a few legends about them as well. I know when I put the hammer down on one the pack scattered leaving me and one dead. Then again it may have been the 7mm mag hammer in the tight confines of the bottom, even if they were still close I wouldn't have heard em. They sure were a noisy bunch before the shot though, some of the strangest sounds I ever heard. The main story I hear is they are like Marines, no one gets left behind. Most the time they carry the dead off with them when they go. Like I said though I collected mine without incident.

In all honesty I started tagging along as soon as I could walk during archery hunts with my dad. Best memories from the youth was at about 4 falling asleep in dads camo jacket while he went on a stock and waking up to him freaking out that he couldnt find me. Another great memory was getting to see a great mule deer tending the heard of does. I couldn't have been more than 6 or 7 and didn't really understand why the buck was standing on his back legs behind the doe. I had one of the little red bows for kids that came with 3 wood arrows at some point and would shoot bails of hay in the backyard. Got a bow that was legal to hunt with around 10 or 11 and chased javelina around a little bit, but never connected. Got a little more serious when I was about 16 and roundabout traded a mini 14 for a Matthews MQ32 which I still use. I like many others have not connected with any deer, but could fill a book with unbelievable stories of blown stocks and missed opportunities. Thats how it goes when you spot and stalk. One day it will all come around, just a matter of being in the right place at the right time.

Wow 8 pages. I think this thread is a shame. I read all the posts in it mainly because I was trying to figure out why an Obama thread was in the bowhunting forum. Sadly I can't find a mention of his name, I keep waiting for someone to go into it. Oh well maybe that comes in the next chapter.

Well after many posts I'll offer my first hand experience with the Remington 700 SPS Varmint. I have one of these big boys, in .308. It is a heavy SOB especially with a Harris Bipod. I put a 4.5-14X40 Burris on mine which makes for a little more weight. I kinda have been thinking I need some better glass for the new horse in the stable. I got mine before the triangle barrel du-dad porting and X mark trigger hit the market. My trigger pull is a bit heavier than I like, but that just means it needs to find its way to smith like the rest of my rifles. I am highly satisfied with my 700 SPS, it is far more accurate than I will ever be. Hunting for Coues it's not too big a burden to pack. Then again I'm young and dumb. I really don't notice any difference in the weight of this rifle and my regular barreled 700 synthetic stock in 7mag. I did a lot of googling before I settled on the SPS and the biggest complaint I saw was the stock that many others have complained about already in this thread. I don't think it is the end of the world, but there could be some improvement. From what many have said the first thing they do is dump the stock and the trigger for something "higher quality". If it fits the budget than by all means go for it if not it won't ruin the rifle. I have no experience with the other rifle to give a compare/contrast about the two, but I figured I could throw in my two cents about the SPS. I'm going to try to link to snipercentral for a report on the SPS if I can. If its not ok someone can remove the link without offending me. http://www.snipercentral.com/remspsv.htm. He shows the improvement of just swapping the stock out for what its worth.

I erased the novel I had written. I don't know what the big deal is with missing a few days of school to hunt in grades K-12. My choice was make good grades get rewarded by missing days to hunt, make bad grades go to school while dad goes hunting. For some strange reason I always did good in school... For what its worth youth hunts didn't really work so well for me as a youth. It was better to hunt on the same hunt as my dad since I didn't have the ability to get there without him.

Figures one of these would pop up here. I just ordered one from Cabelas for full price. Ah well hope it finds a happy home.

Where is the trailer? I'll be going through Phoenix on the way to Tucson the Wednesday before and possibly Tuesday before Thanksgiving and would like to try and catch a look at it if possible.

I know to cross the San Carlos reservation you need a permit as you mentioned. If memory serves me though it is only like 7 dollars. May have gone up since I bought one. You can get them at the Shell station in Pima. I had the joy of purchasing a couple to cross through the reservation near Lower Eagle Creek. If they haven't gone up and you can still purchase them at the Shell in Pima it might be worth it if you know for sure you get where your going. As Dennis Miller says though, "Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong".

I think its already been said enough, but I have seen fawns nursing as late as December. Something interesting I have to add is the spotted fawn I saw right around the end of last December. It was a mule deer fawn that was beded up, even though I had pushed the biggest part of the heard on up the ridge. I was wondering if he was a really late drop or just a really early drop. The mule deer where actively rutting since there were about 15 does with a decent four point and a little spike trying to pick up on the left overs.

Pops and I were lucky enough to draw the coveted late summer hunt in 36A this year. Thats what I've decided to call this hunt, which has great mid 90's temperatures during the day. I was also lucky that a good friend of mine was able to join me for the first 2 days of the hunt. You all know him as Elpepe25, I call him Po. Pops was lucky to have a new hunting buddy, his Grandson who I decided to nickname "Bored". He's only 9 and flew out from Illinois to hang out with Grandpa on the deer hunt. I was also lucky enough to cut a hole in my passenger front tire driving in to camp. It slowly leaked out after we got parked, and was completely flat after a couple hours. Good news was that Po got there that evening with a plug kit. Needless to say the plug kit saved me from having to play pit crew out in the boonies. The first day was pretty uneventful. I had never seen so many does with twin fawns. I think we saw a grand total of 3 does without twins. I never kept count of how many deer we saw on this trip because if you glassed up a doe that meant you found 3 deer. We did put glass on a trophy 8X8 spike on opening morning though. On the second evening of the hunt we put glass on a cool little 4X4 buck. I had not shot a 4X4, my last deer was in December 8 years ago and was a 4X3 with a broken eyeguard. After shooting him, I went through a stretch of only carrying a pistol on the rifle hunt, while I glassed for Pops a buck to shoot. The idea being I would save my coveted impossible to draw archery deer tag for December to chase deer. I'm sure most of you already know this but spot in stalk coues isn't exactly the easiest deal to close on. Seems like there is always something that goes wrong. Rough measurement taking the weaker side and doubling it puts him right in the 80" ballpark gross. Just a couple of photos of his headgear, didn't want to mess the pictures up with my mug. You do get to see my hands and sasquatch arms for what that is worth. Pops didn't get a deer this year, but he only hunted another day and half of the hunt. The day after I tagged out, we hunted in the morning, then with the heat decided it would probably be a good idea to get the meat in to the butcher so it wouldn't spoil. We drove 250 miles back home so we could have a shorter drive to pick it up from the butcher when it was done. The plan was to drive back for the last two days of the hunt, but we didn't make it back until the last day. I put glass on a really nice wide woody buck well out of range. I never got a profile view of him so no idea how many points he had. The problem was he was walking with a purpose to the top of the ridgeline, and once he got there he disappeared in a thicket. Pops threatened to shoot a spike the last afternoon, until I told him I was not going to pack a spike out. Not that there is anything wrong with shooting a spike, but I can't see killing anything before its had the chance at a girlfriend.

This year in 36A was probably the best year for lack of illegal activity I have had in the last 4 or so years. We didn't see a single UDA. The Border Patrol is hitting the area pretty hard. I realize C is closer to the border and I don't know how much Border Patrol is doing down there. The recommedations of camping on hill tops vs bottoms is pretty good idea. We always camp on top of the ridge and have never had any visitors to our camp except other hunters, Game and Fish, and Border Patrol. A weird thing was someone on top of the highest ridge around well after dark who wanted to play flashlight tag with us for about 30 minutes. Eventually he came down the mountain and hit a different road, which was followed by headlights leaving down the other road. We figured it had to be another hunter since it appeared he had a really good flashlight. A call was put in to Border Patrol, and the pistols were worn around camp until bedtime. As I have done more than once since I got on here will say there really isn't much to worry about from most of the folks walking the desert. You are less likely to run into a coyote or smuggler than Juan Gonzales (best I could do for John Doe), which makes it so you don't have a whole lot to worry about. I really think most of the thefts that are blamed on illegals are either other hunters, anti's or coyotes. Your average UDA isn't looking to carry more weight, and the coyotes that pick them up have them leave everything they carried with them at the pickup point. Water and food on the other hand, well that is probably going to be your average UDA since they don't bring much of either with them. I did notice lots of empty Red Bull cans laying around this year, must be looking to get wings so they can rest their feet.

The buck I shot appeared to have been spooked from higher up the road, but he was running behind a doe and fawn. I may post the story and pics, but he was about an 80" 4X4. The spikes I saw weren't following the does, but were chasing them off. I saw one spike go on his back legs to punch at a doe with the front hooves. It was pretty funny. The best buck I saw (after I tagged out, while looking for a deer for pops) was all by himself, well unless you count the carp deer he was walking away from on his way to disappear and bed.

Not to take away from the dog advice, but I second the be careful out there. The last day of our hunt this evening, I darn near stepped on a coiled buzztail. I was about 2 feet from the lil guy. Forgot to snag a picture in all the excitement of introducing him to the old .40 cal.

I spent the first nine years plus a lil bit, off of Broadway and Swan in Tucson. Grew up shooting the bows in the back yard at hay. I'm sure the neighbors wouldn't have approved, but that is why we had slats in the chain link fence. Started out shooting Tweety and Bugs in 34B. Grew up following dad around the hills with his bow from about the time I could walk. I remember one dad was stalking some deer and I decided to take a nap, wearing a BDU shirt that was as long as I was. Made him worry a bit. We also spent time in 34A, 36A, and 36B. When I was little the hills off of I 10 in 34B were decent, so that was the place I got to tag along most. At 10, I had quite the intro to hunting shot my first coues, about 85 inches in 34A. My first Javelina in 36A, both were with the Ruger model 77 in .243. Of course by 10 we had moved in to the greater 27/28 area of Morenci/Clifton. Never really could get into hunting deer in either unit, stuck with where I had grown up. In the closing months of 15, I did shoot a old black boar in 27, Game and Fish told me he was 13. Only problem was he took one to the skull so no B&C 19" even with the damage. Somewhere in there managed to kill a couple elk out of 27 as well. Lets see if old Scotty Adams can remember me from my lil stories. He was the one who introduced me and pops to hunting bear in Unit 27.

I know from our encounters in 36A, unslinging the rifle gets rid of 12-16. Other encounters included the half dead guy standing on the side of the road, who I honestly have to say I felt sorry for, he is a human being. My personal favorite was the 3 guys that the helo noticed in a canyon on over from where I was. He landed down in the flats by the road and waited with two other vehicle units to meet them. Bad stories from BP that I've heard don't really involve anything happening to hunters or citizens. It is more to do with the folks trying to come over illegally that can't keep up with the heard and are left for dead. Sadly there are children that have died in those hills only to be found by hunters or BP. Last year the Agent I spoke with stated they had found an approximately 6 year old girl that had died while coming across not too long before the hunts started. Great information in this post. I work in Sedona and we get our share of them dropped off from the truck to pay back the coyotes. I am proud to say, I have managed to arrest a few for felony possession of forged instruments (fake id) which got them sent back to try again another day. The folks your seeing spend anywhere from 3-20 days walking through the desert without food or water. Only to be picked up and transported to various cities throughout America. They see America as a place for hope, and send chunks of their earnings back to Mexico to help their families, and pay off whoever got them here for say $2000.00. They are more than willing to tell you exactly how they got to where they are when you get them into booking. Of course they don't know anyone's name, but they do have a family member back home who gives the money to the coyote. I guess I don't worry to much about the illegals coming up to me while hunting since I have grown up hunting in 36A and B, as well as 34A and B. I didn't realize they were running in 34A You must be further South then where we were. They bother me less than the rattlesnakes, other than the trash they leave behind. Most of the ideas shared here are great pearls of wisdom. Having a buddy is nice, but my old man stayed down there 5 days alone the year before the 4 day hunt became a 6 day hunt. Never had a problem. Then again we haven't seen any coyotes or big packs. Of course someone always meets the 5%. Here's to hoping its none of us!

I'll be in 36A on the first hunt camping with pops. I am really just curious why there are so many of you who are unwilling to camp in the 36's alone. It's not like you have to worry about bears... I've spent a big portion of my 24 years in some of those hills in A and B at least and the only thing that ever scares me is the rattlesnakes. Some of them things are huge! Oh thats right there are those, coyotes with guns...