muskrat

I tossed this out on Bowsite, and it seemed to have merit, so I'll post it here. This could be something we do ourselves, or a suggestion to G&F Not to second guess the AZGF's Legal Team, but it occurred to me that there MUST be lots of Attorneys that hunt, here in AZ. What about starting a movement to find Attorneys experienced in Wildlife Management, States' Rights, Interstate commerce, etc.? Attorneys that would be willing to work pro bono or reduced rates. Since Nevada, Montana, and some other western states are now being targeted by USO, it would also make sense to me to extend this concept, and form a Western States Alliance, with a dream team of lawyers, to fight USO - on behalf of several western states... Just an idea

newbee - once people get to know you better, they will be a little more "free" with their information. A good place to start, especially for "general" info is the Game & Fish website. They give summaries of specific Units, etc. I have yet to see a Coues deer, so I am certainly not one to be giving out advice. Welcome to the board, don't worry about asking questions. Once people see you are here to stay, and not a "drive-by", you should start getting more tips...

Not that I'm a genius, but I do a lot of editing and writing. If anyone wants me to proof their letter, before they send it off to the powers that be - let me know. I'd be happy to help.

Regarding internet applications - can someone show me some stats regarding number of applicants pre-internet app versus number of applicants with internet application? I'm just curious. I thought I saw something this year showing that although the internet apps went way up, paper apps went way down, and there was a net increase, but not what everyone had predicted... I like the internet applications. I guess everything is relative. Some people can afford Taulman, some people can afford to front tag money for 4 or 5 different species... That being said, if the hunters of AZ and AZGF think that it is harming the Management Programs, of course, I'd agree with its removal... M MacFarlane

From Bowsite: It is from, "Thomas K. Kelly,P.C. Attorneys at law", dated July 15, 2004 and addressed to "Duane Shroufe Director Arizona Game & Fish Department". He also stated that he didn't know how to copy and paste from his source, so he hand-typed it. A taxidermist friend of mine told me about this (or a similar) letter a week ago. M R over at AZUHO said they received an advanced copy. Other than that, that's all I know.....

Mike - I enjoyed the thread, actually - thanks for putting it out there. Note! Anyone who wants to send me exact directions to their hunting spots in 22, 24B, or 37B please do so via PM, or over coffee

I'm not sure if that is directed at me or not, since I've been in here bumming a lot of information lately.... That being said, I never ask for specific spots, and always welcome it if people want to send me information via PM, or none at all. I know when I reply to a topic where I may be able to offer some info - I gage at the time whether it is info that is general enough to offer in the open, or specific enough that I need to deliver it via PM. I am quickly learning that it is a different mentality here, than where I came from ( 7 years ago, not last week) - that's for sure. Folks there seemed to love sharing info - in very specific terms even! "Go 3 miles down this road, take the logging road that veers off to the right, just past the beaver dam.. go 2 more miles and park there. Take the trail that is more to the east - you'll need to go another mile and a half or so...There's a little clear cut in there, and a big log on the north side that's great to sit on" I don't like holding someone's hand any more than anyone else, but I hate seeing people getting branded as lazy, just because they ask for some help. That doesn't seem to happen on here as much, as I've seen on other boards. People wonder why the numbers of hunters are dwindling - it doesn't help when the perception is that we're snappy and secretive. It's not a geat way to recruit new members. PETA seems to be really friendly, though On the other hand, I do see your point. Especially in Arizona with a rapidly growing population, and a lot of people asking questions are "here today, gone tomorrow". When I join a new board, I generally try to take part in many of the other threads, before I start e-scouting. (Of course, I jumped right in here - so much for that statement) Add to that, the concerns regarding non-residents, and USO, and dwindling habitat - some discretion doesn't hurt, I guess - when distributing information. I guess what I'm saying is - I agree to a point....

Hunted OTC archery there last year, without much luck. Was hunting Queen Valley area. Put in for a rifle tag this year. Will hunt archery if I don't get drawn. Anyone else hunted this Unit?

Well, since I was hijacking the other thread, I figure I'd come back here and hijack my own. Since it looks like Plan A is to self-learn how to hunt foxes, coyotes, bobcats, bears, and lions - I was wondering if 24B would be good for that too. Specifically, I was thinking of those rolling hills just north of the Hewitt Station Rd, kind of under the power lines. I might hunt archery deer there too. Since I already know that specific area better than most, I figured now is the time to get to know it better. Besides that, it's fairly close to me. Probably no bears there, though - huh? Thoughts? Comments? Marshall MacFarlane

Thanks for all of the great info, Lark! I'm certainly gonna give it a whirl. Currently, all I own is a 7mm Mag and a muzzle loader, so I'll probably buy a used rifle for predators, at least until I figure out how much I like it. What calibre could you folks recommend that would be reasonable for foxes, coyotes, and bobcats - but would also work on a bear or lion? (Which is really what I'll be after) Sorry for hijacking the thread, guys

Like I've mentioned before - I'd love to learn how to hunt lions, bears, predators, etc. I'd probably even make some stories out of the trips. I also took the money I had set aside for tags, and joined several sportsmen's organization in the state - ABA, Wildlife Council, etc.. I figure we need a unified voice to present our views to AZGF

In New Brunswick, where I grew up - once you got drawn for your moose tag, you had to wait 5 years until you could enter the draw again.

Thanks, Amanda! Marshall

I didn't get drawn for anything. 7 years in AZ, and I still haven't really experienced AZ hunting! Granted, I only started putting in last year. And I did get a javelina tag last winter.. but you know what I mean.. So - anyone who wants to coach a guy in OTC Coues and Mulie, Mtn Lions, Bears, even predators.... drop me a line. I hunt the Units near home (Johnson Ranch) 24B, 37B, etc....... I'm a quick learner

I do have one question, and have seen opposite opinions/statements on various boards.... Was the supplemental draw all NRs, or did they just keep drawing extra tags until they had evened out at 10%? (Some Rs in with the draw)

No tags for me either. Zilch. Nada. Zip

More info from bowsite.com

I've never really understood why people instinctively seemed to disdain prostitutes. That is, til now, when someone took something important to me that I love to do as a pastime, and turned it into something dirty, and all about money.... I wonder if Taulman's trucks are purple with furry dice and leopardskin upholstery....?

OK - so if they used interstate commerce, i.e the selling of hides, ivories, and antlers as their "end run"... maybe someone should look into that. Do they have the right vendors licenses? I need a transaction and privilege tax license, to sell stuff. Did they collect the appropriate taxes? Jump through the appropriate hoops to act as export agents when facilitating the transer of said items from State to State? Not sure of all the applicable laws - just pointing out that there is more than one way to skin a cat... especially a polecat Finding a way to "get" USO would make far more sense than blanket condemnation of non-residents.... Another idea that I got off of bowsite Not as guides of course... but as friends

Thanks for all of your replies!

Sheep Unit 22 Antlered WT - Unit 24B Antlered Mule deer Unit 24B Elk - 4 choices - Unit 22 Antelope - Unit 31 & 32 With only 2 points for everything, I don't have my hopes up (especially now)

Where I was hunting... Just off the main road into QV, there is a road off to the right. I can't recall the name. Soemthing Station Rd maybe ? I went back in there a long way. Found some tanks, went by a trail head, and into some other areas... Without getting your honey-holes, was I even close to good huntin' grounds?? Anyone else been in that general area?

I saw a bunch of lion tracks, when I was prowling around in there