couesdiehard

Hey I am glad to see most of us have calmed down and started being more sensible. Buster is wrong in numerous ways but he has a right to his lame opinion and I would fight to defend his right to voice his lousy opinion. Of course the beauty of this country is that we also have the right to voice our opinions. Usually the majority opinion wins in the long run as long as that opinion is heard. I hope we all have learned something from this episode. Whenever something (B&C mule deer and elk) is great demand someone is going to try to make a fortune on it. Not that this is wrong in and of itself but it's fundamentally wrong when you haven't built this demand. Listen up Buster, the Feds do send a lot of funds to Az G & F in the form of the Wildlife Restoration Program and the like but that is based on the land area and Az hunting licenses sold each year. Not to mention the Heritage Fund monies from the Arizona Lottery, donations to wildlife on our state income taxes and our hunt applications. Let's not forget time spent volunteering on wildlife beneficial projects, cooperating with G & F officers to catch poachers, and time away from our families and jobs to attend meetings of G & F and other Wildlife protection groups. These are but a few of the reasons the hunters of Az or any state for that matter should be entitled to a better chance to hunt animals under the care of their G & F agencies. I know that resident hunters in all states in this Great Country feel the same about the wildlife in their respective states. I don't begrudge anyone willing to spend the money to hunt outside their own state but the reality is that by far, most of the hunters and monies in any state come from the outdoorsmen and women in that state. I wouldn't ask any other state to make my draw chances equal to a resident's because I haven't earned it in another state. I will continue to apply in other states until are forced to raise the non-res fees as Co. already has and Az. soon will. Be prepared my fellow Arizonans there is plenty more to come. If it is deemed unconstitutional to cap bull elk and deer north of the Colorado, what do you think a court will rule on caps for sheep and buffalo. There are dozens of other states with similar caps who will be forced to follow in Az's footsteps. Ironically, your odds of getting drawn may actually be better in other states in the near future if you can afford it. Also you Arizonans don't be so quick to down our G & F. They have after all been fighting this since 2000. They didn't just roll over. They could have done like some other states and dropped their caps when they heard they might be sued. Keep supporting them and letting them know how we feel. Don't give up the fight. But don't let anger get the best of you. Good luck in the draws! (Whenever they come out)

First off reading the G & F website this definitely will affect this year's draw. The Court has ordered G & F to "distribute this year's fall hunt permits in a way that won't discriminate against out-of-state hunters". This means that G & F has to run the draws this year without the 10% caps. Secondly, we all should try to maintain a little. I hate this as much as anybody on this site. Heck I am actually a native of this state! But before we start harassing folks or causing damage we should see what G & F will do when they hear from us. Besides half of the guys I hunt with are working-class guys who drive hear to hunt unguided and they won't benefit from this one bit. If the non-resident fees go up too high they may not be able to hunt hear. As a matter of fact, I am sure we have some members on this site who are out-of-staters too! I believe USO has done Az hunters a real injustice, but I also think a lot of folks in a lot of states are interested in finding a solution other than eliminating caps. I don't think we have seen the end of this fight by far! p.s. Don't be too quick to judge people by where they are from. Three of the guys I hunt with are from California and they are some of the best hunters I have ever known.

More than likely, within a year or two Az will probably drop all caps AND raise non-resident fees substantially. Most of the western states who have caps will have to follow suit. Generally these cases are played out in one or two jurisdictions and then the other jurisdictions follow suit rather than battle their own lawsuit. I would think AZG&F could appeal to the 9th Circuit Court in San Francisco but I don't imagine it would be a good gamble with tight budgets and liberal judges. On the bright side, the non-residents won't have any better odds than us residents to draw but Game & Fish would see a nice boost in revenues if they raise the fees for non-residents substantially. Sure does suck for all of us resident hunting nuts who have been impatiently waiting for the draw to make our fall/winter plans! Especially for those who applied for hunts on the Kaibab or Paria. I guess I am going to have to find me a Boone & Crockett Tarahumara Frog to help forget about deer and elk hunting days that will likely be more scarce than ever in this state. couesdiehard p.s. I will do my best to attend tomorrow's meeting.

KGAINES; Once again you have proven yourself the epitome of the thinking man's thinking man! With your brains and my desire to hunt ANYTHING this partnership could be huge!

KGAINES; I can tell you are a thinking man. While you are obviously exceedingly wise, because you are a thinking man you probably would have no interest in being a mule on this hunt.I am looking for someone of less wisdom and of more brawn to assist me with packing the beasts. As far as back-up, if my plan works I won't need any back-up. If I find someone of sufficient size I am sure I can outrun them. As I am sure you know, once a frog has taken down some prey they never continue to pursue other prey until they have devoured their kill! Hey I guess I won't have to worry about bait then either! I might start guiding other hunters on "Ferocious Frog Hunts of A Lifetime!" Since you are a thinking man maybe you would like partner with me in this guiding venture. I can use some help from a man of your abilities. This is already starting to make my head hurt!

I am going to assume it is like lion hunting. Buy a tag and use any allowed weapon. Which also had me wondering. Do you guys think my 300 WSM would be enough gun to tackle one of these fly-eating brutes? Of course I would use premium bullets in handloads for maximum penetration and expansion. Nothing more dangerous than a wounded frog you know! Don't worry I'll save some backstraps for everyone!

I agree except now we actually hope they take our money so we can have our gifts! I have rarely been so anxious to have someone take money out of my account. On the bright side, in the regulations I don't see any permit tag or bag limits for these Tarahumara frogs so I guess I can get a tag over the counter at Big 5 tonight and go after that big non-typical on the right (in the web-site photo) this weekend!

You know checking out the web-site 30 times a day and wanting so bad I can taste it got me to thinking. When is the season and what are the bag limits on those Tarahumara frogs? Anybody know? Those two on the web-site look like they will go Boone & Crockett!

I know I am not the most patient man in the world but I am going crazy waiting to find out what I will draw. Not to mention what my wife and son will draw. Heck I think I am more excited about their hunts anyway. I need to try to schedule my time off at work ASAP! The longer it takes to find out our results the less chance I have of getting the days off that I want. Heck, now I'm whining. I am going to be getting paid for days off work and I am going hunting! Life is good!

Giladad1; I have hunted this area for several years also. You can e-mail me also if you want to compare some more notes. Couesdiehard

Elmacho; I took a perfectly symmetrical 90 pt. Coues there (my first) and I was hooked on hunting them critters. My buddy helped me on that hunt and then invited to start hunting with a bunch of Coues deer crazed SOB's in 36B and I've been hunting down there most every year since. One thing I noticed hunting mule deer for years in 21 was that a lot of the Coues in that unit seem to have real tight but massive "basket racks". One in particular that I saw actually had the two tips of his main beams touching but I'll bet he didn't have a 12 inch spread. It's a great place to be in January. Good Luck!

Elmacho; That's the one. Drive right up to the golf ball. Nice canyon on your right on the way up. Once at the top park right under the golf ball and walk on top of the ridge line on trail heading north. Tell me how it goes.

Elmacho; When you say the fire-tower in the south portion of the unit do you mean the microwave antenna dome on top of Humboldt Peak? If so, you are looking in good country. Took my first Coues north of there where he had come over the top of the ridge from the river side to feed in an open area that had burned decades ago near the top of the ridges. I never have had much luck seeing anything but white flags in that thick stuff from the ridge tops all the way down to the river but it is loaded with sign...and probably sheds. In general in both the south and north ends of the unit the west facing slopes are pretty open cedar country with muleys and tons of hunters. That's why I started checking out the east slopes. The east facing slopes are dog-hair thick with occasional clearings and the whitetail seem to prefer them. Also have noticed the whitetail seem to be fond of the creek-bed areas during some parts of the year.

Hey Elmacho; I used to hunt in 21 every year and I always found whitetail bedding on the Verde river side of the mountain ranges and going over to the other sides of the ranges to feed. Of course most of these observations were made in fall and winter. Not sure if the whitetail would change their routine during spring and summer. Good luck!

Whitetail - Unit 36B-late 1st choice; Unit 36B-middle 2nd choice Elk - Archery bull 6A south 1st choice; Archery bull 6A west 2nd choice Antelope - Does it really matter? 3B general 1st choice; 18B general 2nd choice (like it makes any difference!) What are we going to do if it ever gets as tough to draw a whitetail tag as it is to draw an antelope tag!

There's a phone call I won't worry about too much! I have hunted with my bow every season for the last 4 years and haven't tagged anything yet. Don't get me wrong! I am not about to stop bowhunting coues and mulies but I would be so happy to tag either with my bow I think I would be calling all the G & F Commissioners at their homes. Sure I would miss out on some rifle hunting the rest of that year but I think it would take at least that long for my swollen head to shrink back down. Call within 10 days of killing a deer with a bow! I should have such a problem!

Just saw on the G & F website that the 2003-2004 fall hunt regs are on their way out to the license dealers. They should be available at most license dealers' locations by Sunday 5/23/04. I have been looking at the regs online as long as they have been available, but they don't compare to pouring through those pages. They are part of the hunting tradition for me.

Red Rabbit I have hunted unit 36B almost every year for the last ten with a group of eight to ten guys. We have noticed an increase yearly in the illegal traffic of humans and drugs but we have only had one bad incident where one vehicle had a window broken and a knife, water and chips were taken. On the bright side, several hundred dollars worth of tools were left untouched. I would be cautious but not paranoid. I see that someone stated they have left water jugs out at their camp and that doesn't seem like a bad idea. If you have ever seen what these folks go through to get a job in the States you probably wouldn't begrudge them some food or water either. As with every kind of group there are some bad customers out there, but most of these guys don't want trouble with you especially knowing you are armed. The drug-runners are well armed and organized but they don't want a confrontation of any kind as it would be bad business. It would not hurt to have someone drop you off or make camp where you want to park and hike in. On the other hand I'll bet you would also think twice about leaving your vehicle unattended at your local city or county park.