SunDevil

the one on the left in the last picture looks like a coues rack to me

well I guess if you were really drunk you might get that bull confused with a really big sheep

Q - obviously there are other places would prefer to hunt or they would have applied for these hunts. I do not recall ever making mention of there being insufficient game in these units to support increased hunts and tags. Since you bring it up though, an important part of your last statement: "making it possible for more individuals to hunt without increasing significantly the number of animals killed, a number that the professional wildlife biologists we've hired have deemed can safely be removed from that area's population" I question the ability to accurately determine 'safely' in the statement you made above. My biggest doubt is in the ability to accurately determine harvest numbers from voluntary report surveys. after that, to base deer population stats on 1 wildlife manager being in the field in the end of jan for a couple of days seems questionable to me. that is what they do so that is what they are going to base all of their info on. seems to me if there is not a lot of finger crossing and hoping there should be. they added 5 hunters to 36C this fall who normally would not have hunted. hopefully our success will be 100% and hopefully the other 69 leftover hunters are not as successful as we are otherwise that 'safe' number will have been thrown out the window.

no to the first part but probably yes to the second part. and I say this know that if they had not increased opportunity the way they did this year I probably would not have obtained a leftover tag. it is kind of like the law of diminishing return - you might pay $4 for a piece of cake but probably on $2 for a second piece and by the time you are offered a 4th piece you probably would not buy it at all (not even for a penny). the same is true for hunting opportunity in some units. clearly based on the number of leftover tags in the 2007 draw year - there was plenty of 'opportunity' in many of the units (30A, 30B, 35A, 36A, etc). my opinion is that with there being enough 'opportunity' already for these units (based on all the leftover tags in 2007) more 'opportunity' was not warranted and the dept probably should have looked a little closer to adding an additional hunt and additional tags in the units.

well Jim - 3,392 (to be exact) could have gone hunting if they had played the odds. I am sure there are probably thousands more (several thousand non-residents and several thousand residents) who only put in for the Kiabab and are not interested in any other 'opportunity'. I would have thought that the G&F would have looked at which units had leftover tags last year and would have realized that there is already enough 'opportunity' in these units. I am talking about 30A, 30B, 35A, 36A, 36B. These units had a lot of left over tags last year and no surprise - lots of left over tags again this year. trust me - I love unit 33. a lot of discussion was had regarding which hunts to put in for. we decided that drawing a 33 dec tag with now only 40 tags would be almost like drawing a sheep tag. additionally, the chances of taking a really big deer would be more challenging than in previous years because 2 more hunts were added and the dec hunt would now be the 6th rifle hunt of the year in this unit. I am very pleased to have kept my bonus points, got another one and obtained a unit 36C left over tag. We would have preferred to put 33 Oct in as our second choice (behind a Dec hunt) but knew that the way the draw works and the bonus points we have, we would have obtained the 33 Oct tag through the 20% bonus point allocation without the draw even getting to our 1st choice Dec hunt application (something wrong with the draw in these situations in my opinion). Anyway, I am sure the Dept sold all their left over tags and were pleased to get the $169K (minimum - just considering resident tag rates). I guess on a positive note, it will probably allow 1.5 FTEs the 'opportunity' to stay employed.

send me an email or a pm if anyone has this tag and is interested in knowing where a couple big mule deer bucks are located.

Jim - first of all let me say thank you for providing the info on the mule deer triplet fawns. I saw them again last Sunday afternoon. I somewhat disagree with this statement in your article: "In the 2007 fall draw, 72,651 people applied for a deer tag and only 42,585 people received one. So 30,066 (41 percent) of people who wanted to hunt deer had to stay home and find something else to do with their families." Some of those 30K people could have done a little research on draw stats and applied for units with 100% odds. more than likely, they had a specific unit they wanted to hunt and that is the only unit they applied for. their thinking was I only want to hunt the unit I have hunted before and am familiar with. they made a conscious choice before they applied to put in for a hunt they might not draw vs put in for a 100% draw hunt and go hunting for the sake of going hunting. additionally, many of those 30K applicants were probably non-residents who only applied for the strip. they made the choice to apply for a hunt with only 2% draw odds. more than likely they apply in other states and are not "staying at home to find something else to do with their families." I do believe the G&F is tasked with a difficult situation. I do not believe a dec hunt that is now - one) the 4th, 5th or even 6th hunt within a particular unit or - two) has a nov hunt that ends 7 days before the dec opener can be considered a 'quality hunt'. I did not apply for Dec 33 this year because it was going to be the 6th rifle hunt in this unit (2 jr hunts and 3 general hunts). this does not count the archery hunt or the javelina hunts. previously the nov hunt would end the weekend before turkey day and allow 3 weeks before the dec opener. now the 2nd nov hunt ends on dec 5 which is only 7 days before the dec opener. this does not equate to quality for me. there were WT tags leftover in 36C this year. if this is an alternative unit with quality being key, why add another 4th hunt when original demand is not greater than the original 3 hunts and allow for 3 weeks before the dec opener instead of just 1. clearly the dept is managing to quantity with quality being thrown under the bus. yes there are the token 'alternative units' but again, I would question a 4th WT hunt with the dec opener being 7 days after the previous hunt closing as a serious consideration being taken for quality. additionally, why add more tags and hunts to units that historically have tags leftover? this goes back to my first point. if going hunting is someone's priority than they should put in for Oct 30B as their 5th choice. they are guaranteed a tag. if not, than they are not that serious about going hunting in the first place. opportunity previously existed for this hunter and he choose not to take advantage of it. if there are historically tags leftover for so many units (30A, 30B, 36A, 36B, etc) this indicates to me plenty of opportunity in these units and an additional hunt and additional tags are not warranted. adding an additional hunt and additional tags to these units just further makes my point of managing to quantity, quantity and more quantity at the additional cost of quality.

well I went out with blackdog again this last weekend for his archery goat hunt in unit 32. nothin hit the ground but a good weekend was had by the two of us. weather was a lot cooler this last weekend than the opener. we went back Sat am to the spot we saw a big 2X2 mule deer last weekend. I immediately found one of the smaller bucks he was running with. after a few minutes I located the big 2X2 and then I found a bigger 4X4 that was running with it. blackdog went off in pursuit and was busted at about 50 yards without getting to fling any carbon. they were down in the bottom of a draw with a lot of thick mesquites. sure was a pretty buck. I almost had an unpleasant experience with a rattler when I was sneaking into a spot to get a closer and better visual on the bucks. man I hate snakes. leapin' lizards - does anyone know what kind this one is? here is one of the better goats blackdog was chasing around. Sunday evening was filled with a lot of rain which provided for an excellent sunset. if it was not a 10 it was at least a 9. there are 10 archery antelope tags in this unit. we met a guy who ended up being successful on this tough hunt. he finally harvested on the evening of his 9th straight day of hunting. he finally conected on his 3rd shot of the hunt.

to bad he is only a 2X2 - got us distracted from our antelope hunt for awhile. busted at 75 yards without a shot.

so this buck's right ear appears to be pulled back a little but not the left one. he appears to be at least 5" (maybe more) outside his left ear. that would put this buck at 32" wide. is this correct?

does anyone know what the avg ear length of a desert mule deer is? I was wondering how wide this buck might be. let me know and thanks. chris.

Butler Creek for me as well but no experience with Vero Vellini.

that calcium is to intact for the master.

congrats - awesome accomplishment !!!

I have only heard of it being a major concern with high elevation and steep terrain hunting. that is why I mentioned mt goats and sheep. on a 300+ yard steep angle shot on a mt goat, the hunter may be tempted to hold over the target (give up hair) and good guides will be aware of this and educate/instruct their client appropriately.

Allen - taxidermists also have fake - spray on velvet. I do not know how much it costs but you might want to check with a taxidermist about it. just another option to preserving the real velvet. they strip the old velvet off and spray this other stuff on. the buck I saw that had it looked pretty real to me.

here was the thunderheaded sunset from Friday evening.

trajectory is not based on line of sight distance but rather horizontal distance effected by gravity. a 300 yard shot uphill or downhill at say a mt goat or sheep would not drop as much as a 300 yard flat shot at say an antelope. the same is true for arrows.

I usually ask the dog how she likes it done - one bark is medium and two barks is well done.

one of the best things is like Wklman said - if there is a buck you have taken that scores say 90" and you can remember the measurements of that buck, you can use it as a baseline to either add to or take away from the buck you are looking at. to accurately field score you will need to see the buck from front and side. from the front and looking at you - if he is out to his ears or beyond than he has good width - usually 13+" from broad side - if his main beams extend out close to his nose than you are good to go - usually 16"+ from broad side - if he has good 2nds and his 3rds are longer than his 2nds you are really good to go. like shortpants said about mass - ball park on mass is as good as you are going to get, if you know what avg mass is for a smaller buck vs a medium buck vs a large buck than you can plug those numbers in. it is pretty easy to tell if a buck has avg, below avg (spindley) or above avg (really thick) mass. good luck

one of the best things is like Wklman said - if there is a buck you have taken that scores say 90" and you can remember the measurements of that buck, you can use it as a baseline to either add to or take away from the buck you are looking at. to accurately field score you will need to see the buck from front and side. from the front and looking at you - if he is out to his ears or beyond than he has good width - usually 13+" from broad side - if his main beams extend out close to his nose than you are good to go - usually 16"+ from broad side - if he has good 2nds and his 3rds are longer than his 2nds you are really good to go. like shortpants said about mass - ball park on mass is as good as you are going to get, if you know what avg mass is for a smaller buck vs a medium buck vs a large buck than you can plug those numbers in. it is pretty easy to tell if a buck has avg, below avg (spindley) or above avg (really thick) mass. good luck

nice pics - thanks for sharing - I would guess around 84"

they did make a few changes to the '08 2200. overall it is not that much different but in comparing the old one to the new one I think the '08 2200 is a little bit better.

will be helping a guy in 31/32.

great pack - check eBay or craig's list. sportsman's and bass pro usually have them in stock.