krp

sdr, why not a 100% preference, if 50% is faster than 20%, then 100% has to be faster than 50%. there really isn't any way to dispute the facts about mathmatical equations. from, waiting to be learn'd.

Why stop at 50%, just go straight to 100% and for sure wait 24 bps instead of the 11 bps now. 100 is better than 50 any day, has to be. Or half the people drop out and try for easier cow hunts that they now only have to wait for 3 or 4 years to get. Hey, then it's only 12 bps to get a tag, that has to be better than the whatever it is now. I haven't looked at any numbers, someone said it was 11 bps but they are ignorant, no way. That would mean the system works about the same no matter what the % and half the people somehow move around the system now, no way. 50% just has to be better, it has to, it's, 30% better. If Bubbas or whoever can get me a tag with 10 bps starting now, they're my hero. 15s the best he could come up with at 50% max pool. No thanks, I'll take my chances with the way it is now. From, unfortunate to be so uneducated.

I buy whatever's on sale and like Coues 'n' Sheep, material is #1. nylon and wool, no cotton. If my pants match my shirt or jacket it would be by accident my camo pattern is always in a state of change, depends on the bloodstains. Kent

Dubtee, I'm not saying I'm right with my suggestion, just that if there needs to be change then actually change it. Forget the math, the more I tried to show wheither or not a change in % pass will make much of a difference, the more I realised 3700 apps - 150 tags still = 3550, no matter the pass%. That was a brainstorming thread that evolved, at least for me. I belong to the 'Ugly tag crew', maybe the only good thing that came out of that thread, and have no tags in this fight, myself. As I was going over the numbers again and again, I noticed some trends, no way anyone can figure a 100% path. Why had the top pool in unit 1 dropped to 11 bps to get in? Shouldn't it be like 20. Why are there more 2nd choice picks in the top half BP pools in all but 2 or 3 premium hunts. The 2nd choice picks are drawing more tags in the max pool than first choice. The lower half bp pools control a powerful advantage in bps and yet are considered interlopers if they happen to draw a tag. Why is someone that has been putting in for tags for 15 yrs without drawing when they know the odds, suddenly have a guaranteed option over me that have been hunting and paying fees for 40 yrs wheither I've drawn or not shouldn't matter, I've spent more money. (this last was said tounge-in-cheek, and is the unreasonable argument for their unreasonableness). Maybe the more a system shakes and jumps, not locked in, the easier it moves downhill, throwing off the waste and gaining speed. Again how come unit 1 is only at 11 bps max pool. Maybe we need to go back to the 10% to get it shaking more and help our NR applicants at the same time. 50% pass will make every hunt a PP system for NRs, not just the premium hunts. 50% pass will not lower the max point bp pool and only creep it upwards. I don't kmow why the 20% pass is not skyrocketing upwards, I can only look at the trend it's moving on now. The 1st choice only draw will take out half of the choices in the first draw. 80,000 instead of 160,000. Take out the 2nd choice and Hail Mary throwers out of each hunt choice and cut those numbers in half on average. Getting 1900 through a proccess is much easier than getting 3700 through. You will only compete with those that are serious for the tag as you are, premium or cow tag, if you're serious about it you don't want everyone and their grandma in with you. If you want to jump in with only a few bps for a premium hunt, more power to ya, at least you're risking something. 1st choice only would have knocked the max pool to 9 in unit 1 instead of 11. Don't know how long that trend will last but should cont for awhile. Should help those that want to draw a cow tag on their first choice. I'm not saying I have the answers but have looked at it harder than most and at least tried to answer the question about a 50% pass. I don't even care if they change anything, except for the NRs problem and tweeking the youth tags a little. I'll get my 'Ugly tags' consistantly and work hard to make them successful. Kent

There were 81,213 apps for 25,446 elk tags. 2008 That's 162,426 choices in the draw if every one put a 1st and 2nd choice down. So roughly 25,000 for 160,000. In unit 1 archery bull more than 1/2 the applicants (713) in the top half BP groups, 7 thru 14 BPs, chose this hunt as their 2nd choice. 16 of 30 20% pass pool tags went to 2nd choicers. The 13 and 14 BPers were ship jumpers or they would have drawn in 2007 in the max pool. The top half BP groups recieved 73 of 150 tags with about 6600 chances in the draw The bottom half BP groups, 0 thru 6 BPs, recieved 77 of 150 tags with over 17,000 chances in the draw. 6600 choices against 17,000+ and still get about 1/2 the tags. That's somehow not enough? Especially to such diehard, wait so long, oopps I got my 2nd choicers/ ship jumpers. The more open and flexable the system the more opportunity for others to be knocked out of your BP pool and up your odds down the road by their own choice. The second choicers that drew a unit 1 20% pass tag were close to being a big player in whatever unit they put for 1st choice, now they're not anymore uping the odds of those dedicated to that hunt. This works down even for those that only put in for nonpopular bull and cow hunts. If you up the pass % you stiffen up the system and cause each BP group to take 2 or 3 years to pass before another will move into the max pool. Less tags for people to fall by the wayside including cow tags with this system. To understand a little how fluctuating people are coming in and out of the system is consider this. There are 206,638 indidviduals with BPs for elk as of 2008 and only 81,000 applied, where are all the rest, they had to have applied in the last 3 yrs or would have lost their BPs. http://www.azgfd.gov/eservices/pdfs/BonusP...all2008Draw.pdf I added them up, maybe I'm missing something. If you want true change you will need to somehow reduce the number of choices per hunt choice. 3700 1st and 2nd choices in unit 1 and 150 tags. How many are Hail Mary throwers and then choose a easy to draw hunt second, how many put their kids and wives and grandparents with 2 bps in just in case. How many put it down as 2nd choice with a descent number of BPs effecting both 1st and 2nd choice hunter pools. What if you cut out the 2nd choice in the first round? 3700 goes down to 2000 maybe lower, only those that are serious about your hunt will compete with you, if they want to put in with 2 bps at least they are serious and more power to them. Since most bull tags would be gone in the first round, no one is going to take to much of a chance if they really would rather have a late rifle tag instead of waiting 9 years for your tag. Those wanting just cow tags don't have the 'Oh I'll settle for your cow hunt 2nd choicer either'. I know plenty of people that only put in cow hunts. All you lose is your Hail Mary shot but so does everyone else. 2nd choice would be it's own round and would use up your bps, if you only want a decent or great bull tag then just pass on this. 3,4,5 choice would be for some LO tags or whatever's left, if drawn no bps taken, you could put a 1st no 2nd and a 3,4,5 to keep your bps. No need to designate premium tags, they will automatically only appeal to those willing to wait it out. If you want a waiting period (I don't) use BPs. You need 3 bps to be drawn for anything but a BP, hunter safety bp means 2 yrs, HS and L bps mean 1 year wait. When Az first went to a draw they had a 1st and 2nd choice to even the field, then they added the BPs to even the field, now that Bps have matured the 2 processes seem to be fighting against each other. One needs to go. Kent

Absolutely. 100%, what IT's about. Add your own IT. My IT is family time. Thanks Lance. Kent

I forgot to say, HEY, leave some for the kids, fish hog. Kent

Nice, looks close to where I live. Kent

If you go with the heavier arrow you will need to do something to adjust for spine. There is a certain flex your arrow needs to come out straightest. Up the poundage to get more flex. Most bows are close to the top of adjustment and don't have alot of room to move here. Add length to the arrow so it will flex correctly. We are used to shooting arrows that are a certain length so this may feel akward. Add weight to the broadhead. The shaft will flex more as it pushes against more resistance to initally get momentum started. I say go with the heavier head and then fine tune your poundage to match the arrow and head combo. Kent

Massey, nice,nice critters, that's get'in er done! Kent

The rage heads will kill an elk, in the 90's as bows got faster and fixed broadheads couldn't keep up accuracy wise out to the distances now attainable, mechanicals had an accuracy advantage and therefore a distance advantage. We killed elk with slower bows and not as good mechs than the rage. The question wasn't can a rage kill an elk, it was, is a rage head better than a fixed head because of the speed I'm shooting. The answer is no, it's not. And I have tested rages to slick tricks. If all someone had was rages I wouldn't tell them they couldn't kill an elk. Kent

With the advent of accurate fix blade heads, there is no longer an advantage with mechs. You have a bow that shoots fast but now are going to lose penetration because of the mech head, just gave up any advantage. Might as well shoot a slower bow with a fixed, it will penetrate better. Kent

How close are you to being spined correctly? What's your draw wt and arrow length? Being grossly under or over spined is never good, there's no way to really tune your bow. You have to let your setup determine your arrow spine, can't change your bow to just any arrow. Of course if your max distance is short, like 30 yds, anything will work. Kent

I can get them for 15.00 LESS than the pse, 70.00 compared to 85.00, that's for shafts with nocs and inserts included. Kent

The Pse predator is a fine arrow. The Gold tip should be an XT hunter not the expedition, specs out the same as the pse and still a little less money. I have never tried the eastons, I'm just too cheap. I have the Pse and Gold tips, both shoot well if you get the correct spine for your setup. Lately it's been the GT's because I can get them for 15.00 less for a dozen shafts. Kent

This is actually a nice hunt if you have the time and are willing to get back in some rough country. The bach bull groups are in the same places everyday when you find them, having the patience to wait them out for a shot opportunity is the key. There are slopes that always have bulls on them everyday during the winter, year to year, for at least the 15 or so years I've been observing. I would still be hunting this hunt but have decided to wait for one more rut tag. When it gets closer to your hunt and if you still need help let me know. Good luck, Kent

Are you talking first rifle as in the nov/dec hunts or as in sept/oct. Even the nov/dec tags are one of the best tags in the state. If you are willing to get back in and pack them out, nice bulls are there to be had. Kent

L C R 1052 Kent

Vote #2 for Slick Tricks. Kent

A guide means a person that is: Licensed by the state of Az. Signs a contract for sevices for hire even if payment is not paid but services were supplied. A hunt is considered Guided if a person: Accepts any compensation that directly benefits themselves or their business through advertising rights, sponserships, promotional rights, videos, products, using the hunt images of another's tagged animal. This does not include personal tags or immediate family. A hunt is considered Guided if: money or items of value are exchanged for aiding or assisting any person to locate or take wildlife, beyond the average family/friend outing and no more than $400.00 of compensation beyond actual personal expences. If you accept money or compensation beyond personal expences plus $400.00 for info on locating or taking an individual animal, a guide license is required. This is directed at finders fees. The 400.00 is much like the 750.00 that a small contractor can legally make in Az without being licensed by the state. I know this isn't perfect but it would seem to cure some of the issues, and still allow those that hunt with their families and friends to be taken out to dinner and given a small gift for helping out. Or a High school kid making a few bucks scouting. It would also not allow someone to claim they weren't guiding for cash and then make money off the images through advertising and promotions. Just needs to be spelled out in more detail than what is being proposed right now. These is just some thoughts. Kent

Gene, thanks for your responce on this forum, and explaining what this rewording is trying to do. I'm sure you'll still get alot of suggestions on how to better reword this law. I will have a few of my own. Just really appreciate you listening. Kent

My antelope check finally went through today. I was sweating it, didn't want to lose 2 bps for next year. Kent

rc, that's what I thought. The 165 hornady load is a good one just like you say, can't go wrong with it. I site in like you do and it makes it easy just past 300. Kent

Ok, after moving stuff from room to room while remodeling my house I realized I have to trim down my stuff. It's hard to do but here goes. 3 guns, these are all experienced hunters and have some scars to prove it, they all function well and shoot good. 1. Rem 740 wingmaster 3006, 1957 if I remember right, original weaver K4 60 4X with post reticle, not a jammer and the stock has plenty of dings. 325.00 2. Interarms MARK X 7X57, early 80s, Nikon 4X buckmasters, home painted wood stock, 2 pc RCBS dies available. 400.00 with scope, 325.00 gun only. Dies 15.00 with package. 3. Rem 700 BDL 270 late 70s, older Nikon 3X9 scope comparable to the monarch line of today, plenty of scuffs, dings and marks but has maintained it's good looks for it's age. RCBS Dies available with added lee crimp die. 500.00 with scope, 400.00 gun only, dies 20.00 wp. 4. Rem 700 BDL 7 mag (SOLD) 5. Rem 788 243 (SOLD) Misc. optics and stock, B&L discoverer 15X60 60mm spoting scope (just like the bushnell dicoverer scope now) (SOLD) cheap burris landmark 8X binos. FREE (FOUND A HOME, no longer available) Rem 700 LA mag factory syn stock, home painted (will fit LA or LA mag rifle). (SOLD) Primers and powder, (SOLD) Scopes and dies will only be sold separate if the gun sells first. If the gun never sales I'm keeping every thing with it. Added, Weaver K460B 4X with post reticle, original rings, nice shape, 60.00 Set of RCBS 7 mag dies with added lee factory crimp die, 20.00 I've only been a buyer and not a seller of guns, I will answer any questions the best I can. If I'm not around the computer and you need to get ahold of me you can call. Thanks for looking, Kent - 480 292 4554

The Burris binos found a home, I have the 3 guns, weaver scope and dies left. I want to thank everyone who has looked and bought, I've met some great people and that's been the best part. Kent