krp

Yes. I was hoping folks could connect the dots themselves. The only thing money like this can be used for educational wise would be a campaign like the boater safety commercials. This would not be a war chest for political activism. Because of legal liabilities these monies would be absorbed into G&F revenues same as all others. Ultimately it's about selling tags only. Kent

They can read this thread and if they wish to clarify their issue to the readers for support they can readily do that. Kent

Well, I really don't have any question for them. They want to sell tags for some ambiguous education fund that can't be utilized for their stated goal of combating anti hunting political initiatives. I'm just addressing that and also some misinformation on how funding for education can be done besides selling tags. Kent

An 'Education' fund, EPC, education partnership committee, could be created with any number of revenue sources. And available equally to all prospective applicants including the anti's. And this in no way addresses the issue of funding to combat the anti's in the political arena. Any funding for political issues cannot come from a public resource it must come from private sources. This whole thing makes no sense in how it's being proposed. Kent

HPC... this should not be compared to how a war chest to counter political attacks from anti hunters can be used. Established by the Arizona Game and Fish Commission in 1992, the Arizona Elk Habitat Partnership Committee and affiliated Local Habitat Partnership Committees were created to address and reduce elk and livestock conflicts and to promote partnerships through cooperative projects. In January 1996, the program concept expanded beyond elk and livestock conflicts and was renamed the Arizona Habitat Partnership Committee to better reflect an ecosystem approach to wildlife habitat management and related projects. Active local Habitat Partnership Committees (HPCs) meet in Springerville-Alpine, Winslow, Show Low, Williams-Flagstaff, Prescott, Yuma, Safford, Tucson, Sierra Vista, and Payson. The Forage Resource Study Group in Coconino County also participates as an affiliate member. There are currently 13 Local Habitat Partnership Committees (LHPC) and one affiliate member across the state, which comprise the Arizona Habitat Partnership Committee (AHPC). All of these committees focus on putting money on the ground to improve habitat or management for big game species, although many projects benefit other wildlife and livestock as well. The State HPC Committee meets twice a year. The program’s primary funding source is Special Big Game License-Tag funds, although the HPC strives to incorporate multiple funding sources to bring the maximum benefit to wildlife. The Commission annually awards 3 special big game license-tags per big game species to nonprofit wildlife conservation organizations that auction or raffle these tags to raise funding that is used to benefit the wildlife species for which the license-tag is issued. The sponsoring wildlife conservation organizations must cover all marketing and administrative costs for the license tag sales, and 100% of the money raised is returned to the state of Arizona. These funds are allocated through the HPC Program by collaboration between the Department and the wildlife conservation organizations that market and sell the tags. Once project proposals are submitted, the Department coordinates with these wildlife conservation organizations and funding is allocated to the projects that provide the most benefit to big game species in Arizona.

Another 5 bucks during application would generate over 1 million. But the problem remains that these monies can't be used to challenge political initiatives. Kent

No money generated by selling tags could be used to oppose political initiatives. The 'need' for this money is being misrepresented. Kent

Excellent, we don't have to be at all places all the time, just enough to get the job done, and enough of us to do it. I had plenty of average hunters who debated antis on my facebook feed, which in turn is seen by many others just watching. Social media is a much bigger avenue to get the word out than hunting forums or a web page. It seems to be overlooked as a free pulpit. Kent

Ya, I didn't see them out at the zoo when I took my grandkids and the petitioners were out on the sidewalk looking for signers. I didn't see them debating the issue with them so everyone else just walked by without signing. Or that it was all over facebook denouncing the anti's position and supporting the hunter's, and visa versa, but it was out there for folks to decide on their own. Kent

Wouldn't matter if it was Woodchucks united that brought this up, say we need this money to fight the anti's... Uh, all you can do is be the selling agent, once G&F has the money your input is over concerning how it's spent and on what context. Kent

There is simply no need to generate funds by raffling/auctioning tags for the context given. Create a general education fund fee in whatever form is easiest. Kent

Any revenue generated by these tags can't be spent outside the regulations G&F must follow. Same revenue can be created with a fee added to licenses or at application periods. Any political fight must come from private people/organizations and private money. Any money generated off of the public resource is public money and regulated. If for some reason a loophole allowed 501c groups to access that money for public education, then it would be open to all groups including the antis who would use it against us to... conserve and protect animals by outlawing hunting, education. This is either a red herring on a way to circumvent the 'no political' G&F rule that other revenues can't. Or it's a 4 way sword edge that will help our many enemies more than us. Only advantage I see is for the orgs that sell these at banquets is the added attendance and revenue from same. If you are going to stretch the intent of the rules, use Pittman/Robinson money in the guise of hunter/potential hunter ed announcements. Kent

Average price is 4 to 5 bucks a sq ft. depending on grade... how much fill has to be hauled out or in. Small jobs under the 6 yard minimum will be more depending on size, we have a minimum labor + materials. It's busy, I'll be spending all weekend setting foundation walls, but usually we can fit a homeowner job in for a saturday pour. Kent

I have one in Mesa in the garage, it's missing the padded arm rest on one side. You are welcome to come by to get it and use it for your mom. Kent

Wool, you won't get skanky like synthetics, but that's just for my nose, you won't ever fool an animal down wind. I only take an extra pair of socks. Wool for base and fleece/synthetics for outer... no cotton especially socks, might as well wear sandpaper on your feet, synthetics and you'll gag a maggot. Fire won't disturb animals, you are in their living room, they know you are there fire or not. If they ran from every noise or possible danger they'd never stop. Back in animals are less spooky anyway. More than once I've killed a coues buck and had to run his buddies off and gutted him while they watched from a couple hundred yards off. Don't overthink this stuff. Kent

https://www.azgfd.com/hunting/pointguard

^ this. In Colorado for instance you can draw and turn back every year. You just don't get the point you would have earned that year. You keep your existing points. This is an excellent comprise as if I had an injury or death in family etc I'd be grateful to get back as many points as I could. It would also alleviate the selling thing as no one with 18 pts for elk waiting one early rifle is gonna give up being able to earn a point. It would fix the whole thing. But until the. Anyone with 16 or more deer or elk points wanna make $1500-3000? Serious. Pm me Colorado has a preference point system not bonus. Besides that you can draw your second choice and only use your preference points if drawn for 1st choice. Nevada doesn't compare either. Kent

If someone I don't know gets to use my points I'm the A app and they are B... they give me their info, not me to them. G&F has been advised of all the dynamics a few years ago. Weren't many of us at the meetings but enough of us there to make sure there was no mistaking the possibilities, of one and done or unlimited. They shelved it then because of this. Folks will learn to use the new system or be left in the dust. I'm devious enough to figure the angles... and honest enough to inform all others to whats coming and how to get ready. Kent

No one has our point or draw system, that's the difference. NRs would benefit the most offering money. Using family and friends more likely. Kent

There's an endless different ways to use this for family and friends or yourself. Getting paid will most likely come from NRs. Typical deal will be like this... USO has hundreds of clients they apply for then guide, they flood units their clients that they like to guide in. They have a large camp for unit 10 late rifle of who they get through that year. 500 tags, 100 tags in the 20%, 25 can go to NRs. Unit 10 20% pass goes to 5 BPs, guaranteed at 6 for residents and probably bottoms out at 8BPs for NRs with the new restrictions. A NR has 4 points, if he can put in with a 11 or 12 he gets to 8. That's worth more than 1500.00 to not wait and leapfrog. It's the 20% pass that will be effected most and soon those numbers with go up. Coues dec tags will be effected because many take 5 BPs to draw in the 20% pass but usually only have 8 to 10 tags in that draw. It could come to half those tags given back and many more BPs to get in the 20%. Kent

Yep, No reason a guide service that also takes care of client apps couldn't offer me money to use my 12 elk points to help a NR client leapfrog others for a unit 10 late rifle. Probably be worth a couple grand for someone to shave off 4 or 5 years wait depending on how many points they have to put in. Can't wait to see the Craiglist ads. Kent

Cool beans on your son's tags, good times for sure. Kent

Hey Andy, I'm going to hyjack my own thread... here's a bull moving back and forth between cows last year, real close to where you killed yours. Thought you'd get a kick out of it. They wren't bugling and I couldn't convince my buddy who had a tag to go down in and hunt, he wanted to sit water. I said fine, I'll show you there are elk there... 1/4 mile from where he was sitting. http://s289.photobucket.com/user/kentpowellp/media/videos/MVI_0827_zpsscisk0w7.mp4.html?sort=3&o=1

And another obvious I've been waiting for others to see on their own. Two tags will be pulled out of the 20% pass that wouldn't have. And one returned. Two people get screwed. Kent

My first elk tag was archery in '84. Back then it was all the units from 27 around to 4A. I hadn't even seen a live elk before except some cows eating on the road around Forest Lakes once driving by. Though I used to drive up to Woods canyon to fish, throw a bag on the ground to sleep. right on the rim where the 300 road turns, and have loud, weird birds wake me up in the mornings. Didn't know it was elk until an old hunter brought a bugle to deer camp. Back then a bugle was a piece of looped sink pipe, blow in it and it ran the scale up and down. I had been chasing deer in the desert around Mesa with an old bow, never got close enough for a shot. Late archery season started thanksgiving and then the new year after. Any deer, either sex, seemed if I was quail hunting the deer were in easy bow range and if I was bow hunting they weren't and quail running around my feet... of course. Anyway my brother's BIL came down from Washington state to help pour concrete with us. He had stories of shooting elk with a bow, helped me improve that old bow of mine and it gave me the bug. After drawing that first tag I bought a new bow, Golden Eagle, because that's what he shot, got set up and practiced all summer. Hunted around Woods Canyon and Forest lakes. Always in elk, blew some stalks and had a big bull at 20 yards broadside that I shot over his back. It was the most exciting, humbling, disappointing, self blaming and best hunt I had ever experienced. I didn't put in for archery again till '89. 3C, had to choose a unit by then. More action, more exciting, bigger disappointments,more self blame. Shot a large bull quartering at me some and caught the platter bone. I was beat myself up on how dumb I was hunting elk with a bow. '91, killed a 350+ herd bull in the same spot... had my broadhead and couple inches of shaft still stuck in his shoulder. '96, '97 drew 3C, odds were still around 25%, my buddies were putting in with me by then so we had 3 tags every year. We killed decent bulls both years. I have drawn 4B a couple times and 23 november as second choice by myself. Every year I've went on someone else's hunt in 3C or 23 except a couple. Hunted the rez raghorn/cow, helped on youth cow tags. Then I decided I wanted one more 3C rut tag, back then it was 12 BPs to draw in the 20% pass... now it's 11. I had 11 this year but decided to wait for next year. Last year it started on the 11th and was hotter than I've ever experienced, lows at high 50s. Elk were killable but I'm wanting the experience again. This year it starts on the 9th, next on the 15th. In my experience the action and sounds in the woods change around the 18th... I want more than five days of that action. I won't ever wait for a rut hunt again, I actually like the archery 23 november hunt. Anyway I have 12 points because the hunt started on the 9th this year. Now I have to decide if I'm going to finish my plan... or think of my granddaughter and get her a late 23 rifle hunt where it's not difficult to kill a nice 300ish bull. Then have 19 points to pull the 3C archery, or possibly early rifle depending on 20% pass or a 23 early archery. It's almost a waste of my long waited for points to use them just for me... now Except someone gets screwed out of a 23 rifle tag that I don't want. Next in line seldom would be who would have drawn given 2nd choice draws. Especially Dec coues tags and mule deer tags. Kent