TAM

I just don't have the time to invest in building one, let alone several of them. And I know everyone says they're real easy to build but I'm extra dumb when it comes to those kinds of things!

Amanda, the "Stealth Cam" I was refering to in my original post that costs $75 is NOT a digital camera. However "Stealth Cam" does make a digital camera model but I think it costs around $250 - $300. For me personaly I would rather have 3 regular trail cameras for that kind of money and have the ability to scout 3 different locations at once. I am not trying to get magazine quality pictures, I just want to see if any good bucks are using a tank or salt lick. Tim

I have had some trail cameras on water tanks in unit 24b for about a year now and have noticed an interesting point. In this area of scrub oak, manzinata, and junipers the coues deer rarely come in at night. The area around these tanks is very thick and IMO they are just to cautious to come in during darkness. I'll bet that I get one picture at night for every 12 or 15 pictures during daylight.

Well as I mentioned this was the first time I actually used the camera and unfortunatly I did not set up the camera to print the date and time on the photos, so all I have to go by is day or night and to a lesser degree I can tell from the shadows if it was morning or evening. I will have to go back and set the camera to stamp the date and time. But to answer your question the best I can the lions were all at night and the deer were mostly late in the day. Only one deer was caught at night. The bears all came in during the morning time. I had the camera set out for about two weeks.

Just to give an update, for those that are interested. I just got the first roll of film back from the trail cam mentioned in the above post. My expectations were not that high, I really expected to see a lot of pictures with nothing and or just birds and squirls. I just wanted to have a good picture of a deer or two. The first picture I looked at was a mt. lion! I was shocked. There were also several pictures of coues both does and small bucks. I also got three different bears (they are all little weenie bears). And I also got one picture with two mt. lions in it and another picture with three mt. lions in it! I could not believe first off how well the Deer Cam worked and second all the different animals using the area. There were several pic's with nothing at all but I really expected that from the get go. The area I set the camera up at was a small natural seep, which holds water year round, on the border of a wilderness area at about the 5000' elevation. The seep sets in the bottom of a draw which the animals use as a travel coridor. The vegatation is mostly scrub oaks, manzanita, and some junipers. I've got a scanner, but have no idea how it works. If I can figure it out I'll post some pics. TAM

I just ordered the Non typical Deer Cam DC-100. I've not even got it yet but will keep you all posted on how it works out! TAM

I shoot a 270 Weatherby Mag with 130 grain Hornady Interlocks at just over 3500 feet per second at the muzzle! It also shoots groups that can be coverced with a quarter at 100 yards. In my opinion it's the ultimate coues deer rifle. Sure you can shoot larger game animals with it but when your game is coues deer I personally don't know of a better choice. The recoil is not too bad and it's as flat shootin as they come. I know some guys shoot the 300 ultra, 30-378, and the Warbird, but in my opinion each of those calibers is just too much gun for the average hunter to handle, not to mention the weight of the rifle. Most people can't take the recoil and add muzzle breaks but then you have to take ear protection in the field when your hunting and I don't like having to do that. There is no need for a break on a 270 wby mag and the noise is simmilar to a 7mm. It also helps if you reload your own ammo, it will cut the price of shooting in half or more.

CDN, as I mentioned previously I spend a lot of time in 24b looking for coues because it is so close to the house. I have a couple of theory's why you don't hear much about the unit. First off, as mentioned earlier, the majority of prime coues habitat is located in the wilderness area. In areas where roads are available they are usually on the boarder of good areas or in marginal areas. Units 22 & 23 have more coues habitat that is more easily accessed by vehicles. I personaly don't believe that the gene pool is any different in unit 24b than it is in 22 & 23. Inside the wilderness area the terrain is steep and vegatation is very thick with oaks, manzinita, and junipers. Glassing and moving about can be very difficult. I think many who apply for 24b do so as a "back up unit" or as a second choice, and when they do get drawn they don't take the time to prepare and scout. With all this said I think the reason 24b does not shine as bright as the others mentioned is because it is a difficult hunt which requires much scouting and patience. Good bucks are there, you just have to work extra hard to find them.

I live in east Mesa, so for me 24b is right in my backyard. I have spent a lot of time there since I was old enough to drive. I still go out a couple times a month glassing and looking for coues. What is your defination of a trophy quality buck? 110 B&C or ????

I am not trying to defend Mt lions here because the truth is we have way to many here in AZ. I do think that while Mt Lions primary food source may be deer or cattle, they will also eat a lot of other small furry animals as well. A taxidermist I know once told me that almost every lion ever brought into his shop has smelled like a skunk, probably because they eat skunks. I am sure it is much easier for a lion to kill a small furry hopper vs. a crafty deer. I think lions will eat everything from rabits, coons & skunks on up to deer and elk when possible. I am not saying that they don't eat lots of deer, I just think there are lots of other animals that make up there diets as well.

It is my understanding that the Tonto National Forrest is pulling most if not all cattle off the forrest land because of the drought. I don't claim to be an expert either but I personally think less or no cattle is better for the deer and other wildlife. It seems to me that coues will tolerate cattle if necessary but prefer to avoid them when possible. I am not sure if this is because they compete for food & water or the cattle make a lot of noise and attract predators. While I do agree with Red Rabbits post above that the kittys will be forced to eat the deer as a result of the cattle being removed, I personally feel that the deer will still be better off without the cattle. It will allow the deer to recover from the drought conditions much faster because the deer will be healthier by not competing for food and water, which means a better fawn crop and the new fawns will do better at surviving the first few weeks because of more cover to hide in. I think this will be better for the long run, but that does not mean we should ignor the cats and even the yotes. Shoot 'em if you get the chance!

The archery deer tags in AZ are all over the counter. The rifle & muzzleloader hunts are all by draw and usually there are a few left over tags that are sold on a first come first serve basis. The printed AZ regs are not usually out until May, but according to their website they should be online on April 18th.

Jason, Can't remember the gentlemans name I spoke with, it was several years ago. He basicly told me that in his opinion with an OTC tag the Gila Wilderness, Unit 23, and the black range all held pockets of Coues worthy of my attention. He did get a little more specific but with all due respect, you'll just have to figure out the rest on your own. By the way, just so you don't set your expectations too high. From my experience in NM, even the best areas I have found do not even come close to southern Arizona in terms of the number of deer. However, NM does seem to have good genetics when you do find that coues buck. Good luck!

I have never been to NM unit 26 but a few years ago when I decided that I wanted to find an OTC area to hunt coues in NM I called the Biologist for unit 26 to get some information. He told me the coues numbers in 26 were very very low on the east side of the unit. In fact he told me that he had recently flown the area to gather deer population information and in 7 hours of flying the unit they only saw 12 deer. He suggested some other OTC units with better coues populations which I have since been to and hunted with success. In one area he suggested I found a coues shed that scores 54 inches by itself with no spread or other side. It is a huge coues antler. As I mentioned before I have never been to unit 26 and based on what the biologist told me I am quite content to keep hunting the other areas he suggested. I will also say that hunting coues in NM is a challenge which can take a lot of time. The coues populations there are in pockets and can take a lot of work to discover. I live in Arizona and don't get to spend as much time scouting in NM as I do here in AZ so it has taken several years to hone in on on some decent coues areas in NM. The first year I hunted for coues in NM I only saw two coues, both were small bucks that I passed on and ended up shooting a 3 point mule deer in the last hour of the last day. Coues hunting in NM is great because of the OTC tags but finding them is a lot of work. Good luck!

I like others prefer the December hunts because the rut reall gets the bucks moving. However, I will mention that the rut can really screw things up as well. I have scouted and watched bucks all summer and fall and have a pretty good idea where they live but as soon as the rut kicks I can't seem to find the same bucks because they are off chasing some tail on another ridge somewhere.

I agree with everyone about finding sheds on the south facing slopes, I've found plenty on the south slopes myself from walking and even glassing. I am kind of suprised that nobody is talking about bedding areas? I have found plenty of coues sheds in bedding areas. In fact the largest coues shed I have is a typical 4 point from New Mexico. I only found the one side but it scores 54 inches by itself. I think most of the larger sheds I have found come from areas of thick cover. My guess is the reason so many of us focus on the south facing hills is because they tend to be more open which allow a person to see more ground, or in other words they are the "easy pickins". However, I think in reality the big bucks spend very little time in the open where most people spend there time looking for sheds. It is true that sheds are where you find them, but with my time spent looking for sheds I will concentrate on thicker bedding and transition type areas where the big bucks like to hole up. Good Luck!