TAM

Taos, when you say you haven't seen a "buck" in 3 weeks with horns are you referring to coues or carp? Thanks.

Went out on Saturday to pick up the film from a couple trail cameras in unit 22 and all of the bulls that we had pictures of had shed except for one spike. Some of the bulls even had new growth coming in already. Most of the pictures were taken about two weeks ago. I did find one brown elk shed and one spike coues shed. I would say that most of the elk have dropped by now, and the coues should be starting anytime.

Deer cocain is just one option. Also mentioned earlier in this thread are the deer blocks and there are sevaral other commercialy available "mineral enhanced" salt block type products that should produce the same type results. I would bet that they all contain about the same thing and will produce very similar results. My expericnce has been with the deer cocain and it works quite well. I will also add this..... I think the location is the key and is much more important than what type of salt you put out! Poor location = poor results. But if you find the right spot the deer will hammer it.

m1280, Once you've found the right location I would haul in a 40 lb bag of rock salt and a 1 gallon jug of the liquid deer cocain. Pour out the bag of salt, preferably in a small depression or hole, then pour on contents of deer cocain. The deer won't be able to consume the entire amount, most of it will be dissolved by rain and absorbed into the ground over time. Once the salt gets into the ground the deer will start pawing and eating the dirt and they will actually dig out a hole in the ground. On a new site I'd replenish it about every three months for the first year or so, then I'd cut back to 2-3 times per year once the deer are hooked and coming in on a regular basis. At that point I would only add the deer cocain about a week before the hunt. If you really want to have some fun go buy or build a trail camera and set it up on your new salt lick and keep track of the animals that come in. Thats how I do it.

I think the bottom line is that salt works! I do think that adding some sort of mineral salt or deer cocain can help draw deer into a newly established salt lick or to assist during the hunting season is a good idea. But to spend a bunch of money on these "super mineral salts" during the rest of the year doesn't make sense when you can buy a 40 lb bag of salt at the grocery store for $3 that will keep them coming in throughout the rest of the year just fine. I also think part of the key to hunting over salt is to keep replenishing the same location for year after year. The longer a location has been established the more generations of deer will know about it and frequent the site. Remember that the does will teach there fawns how to survive. If a doe and her fawn(s) are coming into a salt lick every couple of days, you can bet that the fawn(s) will keep coming back to the salt lick even after they seperate from mama. In a sense you are training the deer and often times the best results won't come for several years. Just going out the month before the hunt and throwing out a bag of salt won't necessarly produce a lot of deer. Good luck!

Hey 300 wsm, what is a trophy block? Is that the same as these deer blocks that are made up of oats and grains and Molossas in a square block? I've tried them and they seem to work pretty well. The problem is the elk eat them too quick! I put them out on my salt licks to help bring in more deer for the trail cameras.

I also prefer using salt pellets or even rock salt over salt blocks. I like to use the rock salt to start a new salt site because when it rains the salt disolves faster and gets into the ground faster. Then I like to use the salt pellets because I think they will last a little longer than rock salt but they still disolve when wet and continue to soak into the ground. The blocks seem to last too long and don't really disolve into the ground as quickly. Plus with a block it is difficult to tell if anything has been licking on it where with pellets or rock salt the deer start digging a hole into the ground. I also like to pour some of the liquid deer cocaine over the rock salt when I'm first getting a new site started but then I usually won't apply any more until just before the hunting season.

I take offense to CHD's comments! I thought this sight was for those who enjoy and respect coues deer and the great outdoors. CHD has greatly disrespected the hunting and outdoor community that visits this forum. His statments are ignorant, inhumane and unethical! It is comments like his that get hunters labeled as killers. Amanda - For the benefit of all hunters, outdoorsmen, and coues deer lovers on this site, I ask you to please remove CHD's ignorant post, or at least the 4th paragraph??? The hunting community does not need comments like that! Thank you. TAM

I put my camera's on water holes and salt licks and very rarely doI get pic's with nothing in them. The suggestion about putting them no more than about 15 feet away is a good one. The cameras I'm using don't have a flash that is powerful enough to illuminate anything any further than that. If the animal is too far away at night sometimes you just get pictures of glowing eyes about 3 feet off the ground. It was also mentioned that you should try and face the camera to the north or NW. That's allgood advise, but sometimes it's just not possible. I have a salt lick in a little opening where the ONLY place to set up the camera is on a tree that faces directly south. I have yet to get a picture from that location with nothing in it, and there is nothing special about my cameras or techniques. I just set them up as best I can and come back in a couple weeks. My buddy did put out one of his cameras on a water tank I showed him and half the pictures ended up being stupid little chipmunks. Just keep trying until you find someting that works. Between my buddy and myself we have 5 cameras out working for us at just about any time and I plan on getting at least one more in the next couple months. We have several water tanks and salt licks that we rotate the cameras on, and we know what locations are producing bucks. In fact we even see the same deer coming in day after day. And what's real nice is the camera's will stamp the time the deer are coming in so we know if there is a good buck coming in. We also know how often he comes in, and generally what time of day he will come in. I love these cameras!!!!!!!

I've only seen one lion in the wild and that was up on the Young road just after dark it ran across the road in front of me. I do however get pictures of lions with my trail cameras on a pretty regular basis. All of the pictures have been at night except one that I just got back a couple weeks ago, the lion came in at about 5:30 in the evening. I also have a picture with 3 lions in it. I'm pretty sure it's a female with year old kittens. Last summer I had a trail camera set out on a water hole and I would get lions coming in about every 3-4 days. Sure wish I could see more for myself instead of just pictures!

I just picked up the film from one of my cameras on Saturday. This camera is set over a salt lick just inside of a wilderness area. There are deer hitting it pretty much every day, but most of the activity is taking place at about 5:30 in the evening. I did get one picture of some schmuck on his Polaris Magnum quad checking out the salt hole. I guess he is above the law when it comes to riding a quad in a wilderness area! The sad thing is that on Saturday when I picked up the film I brought my 3 year old boy with me and he HIKED the entire 1/3 of a mile down and back with me to get the film. I guess some people are just lazy!!!!

I just don't have the time to invest in building one, let alone several of them. And I know everyone says they're real easy to build but I'm extra dumb when it comes to those kinds of things!

Amanda, the "Stealth Cam" I was refering to in my original post that costs $75 is NOT a digital camera. However "Stealth Cam" does make a digital camera model but I think it costs around $250 - $300. For me personaly I would rather have 3 regular trail cameras for that kind of money and have the ability to scout 3 different locations at once. I am not trying to get magazine quality pictures, I just want to see if any good bucks are using a tank or salt lick. Tim

I have had some trail cameras on water tanks in unit 24b for about a year now and have noticed an interesting point. In this area of scrub oak, manzinata, and junipers the coues deer rarely come in at night. The area around these tanks is very thick and IMO they are just to cautious to come in during darkness. I'll bet that I get one picture at night for every 12 or 15 pictures during daylight.

Well as I mentioned this was the first time I actually used the camera and unfortunatly I did not set up the camera to print the date and time on the photos, so all I have to go by is day or night and to a lesser degree I can tell from the shadows if it was morning or evening. I will have to go back and set the camera to stamp the date and time. But to answer your question the best I can the lions were all at night and the deer were mostly late in the day. Only one deer was caught at night. The bears all came in during the morning time. I had the camera set out for about two weeks.

Just to give an update, for those that are interested. I just got the first roll of film back from the trail cam mentioned in the above post. My expectations were not that high, I really expected to see a lot of pictures with nothing and or just birds and squirls. I just wanted to have a good picture of a deer or two. The first picture I looked at was a mt. lion! I was shocked. There were also several pictures of coues both does and small bucks. I also got three different bears (they are all little weenie bears). And I also got one picture with two mt. lions in it and another picture with three mt. lions in it! I could not believe first off how well the Deer Cam worked and second all the different animals using the area. There were several pic's with nothing at all but I really expected that from the get go. The area I set the camera up at was a small natural seep, which holds water year round, on the border of a wilderness area at about the 5000' elevation. The seep sets in the bottom of a draw which the animals use as a travel coridor. The vegatation is mostly scrub oaks, manzanita, and some junipers. I've got a scanner, but have no idea how it works. If I can figure it out I'll post some pics. TAM

I just ordered the Non typical Deer Cam DC-100. I've not even got it yet but will keep you all posted on how it works out! TAM

I shoot a 270 Weatherby Mag with 130 grain Hornady Interlocks at just over 3500 feet per second at the muzzle! It also shoots groups that can be coverced with a quarter at 100 yards. In my opinion it's the ultimate coues deer rifle. Sure you can shoot larger game animals with it but when your game is coues deer I personally don't know of a better choice. The recoil is not too bad and it's as flat shootin as they come. I know some guys shoot the 300 ultra, 30-378, and the Warbird, but in my opinion each of those calibers is just too much gun for the average hunter to handle, not to mention the weight of the rifle. Most people can't take the recoil and add muzzle breaks but then you have to take ear protection in the field when your hunting and I don't like having to do that. There is no need for a break on a 270 wby mag and the noise is simmilar to a 7mm. It also helps if you reload your own ammo, it will cut the price of shooting in half or more.

CDN, as I mentioned previously I spend a lot of time in 24b looking for coues because it is so close to the house. I have a couple of theory's why you don't hear much about the unit. First off, as mentioned earlier, the majority of prime coues habitat is located in the wilderness area. In areas where roads are available they are usually on the boarder of good areas or in marginal areas. Units 22 & 23 have more coues habitat that is more easily accessed by vehicles. I personaly don't believe that the gene pool is any different in unit 24b than it is in 22 & 23. Inside the wilderness area the terrain is steep and vegatation is very thick with oaks, manzinita, and junipers. Glassing and moving about can be very difficult. I think many who apply for 24b do so as a "back up unit" or as a second choice, and when they do get drawn they don't take the time to prepare and scout. With all this said I think the reason 24b does not shine as bright as the others mentioned is because it is a difficult hunt which requires much scouting and patience. Good bucks are there, you just have to work extra hard to find them.

I live in east Mesa, so for me 24b is right in my backyard. I have spent a lot of time there since I was old enough to drive. I still go out a couple times a month glassing and looking for coues. What is your defination of a trophy quality buck? 110 B&C or ????

I am not trying to defend Mt lions here because the truth is we have way to many here in AZ. I do think that while Mt Lions primary food source may be deer or cattle, they will also eat a lot of other small furry animals as well. A taxidermist I know once told me that almost every lion ever brought into his shop has smelled like a skunk, probably because they eat skunks. I am sure it is much easier for a lion to kill a small furry hopper vs. a crafty deer. I think lions will eat everything from rabits, coons & skunks on up to deer and elk when possible. I am not saying that they don't eat lots of deer, I just think there are lots of other animals that make up there diets as well.

It is my understanding that the Tonto National Forrest is pulling most if not all cattle off the forrest land because of the drought. I don't claim to be an expert either but I personally think less or no cattle is better for the deer and other wildlife. It seems to me that coues will tolerate cattle if necessary but prefer to avoid them when possible. I am not sure if this is because they compete for food & water or the cattle make a lot of noise and attract predators. While I do agree with Red Rabbits post above that the kittys will be forced to eat the deer as a result of the cattle being removed, I personally feel that the deer will still be better off without the cattle. It will allow the deer to recover from the drought conditions much faster because the deer will be healthier by not competing for food and water, which means a better fawn crop and the new fawns will do better at surviving the first few weeks because of more cover to hide in. I think this will be better for the long run, but that does not mean we should ignor the cats and even the yotes. Shoot 'em if you get the chance!

The archery deer tags in AZ are all over the counter. The rifle & muzzleloader hunts are all by draw and usually there are a few left over tags that are sold on a first come first serve basis. The printed AZ regs are not usually out until May, but according to their website they should be online on April 18th.

Jason, Can't remember the gentlemans name I spoke with, it was several years ago. He basicly told me that in his opinion with an OTC tag the Gila Wilderness, Unit 23, and the black range all held pockets of Coues worthy of my attention. He did get a little more specific but with all due respect, you'll just have to figure out the rest on your own. By the way, just so you don't set your expectations too high. From my experience in NM, even the best areas I have found do not even come close to southern Arizona in terms of the number of deer. However, NM does seem to have good genetics when you do find that coues buck. Good luck!

I have never been to NM unit 26 but a few years ago when I decided that I wanted to find an OTC area to hunt coues in NM I called the Biologist for unit 26 to get some information. He told me the coues numbers in 26 were very very low on the east side of the unit. In fact he told me that he had recently flown the area to gather deer population information and in 7 hours of flying the unit they only saw 12 deer. He suggested some other OTC units with better coues populations which I have since been to and hunted with success. In one area he suggested I found a coues shed that scores 54 inches by itself with no spread or other side. It is a huge coues antler. As I mentioned before I have never been to unit 26 and based on what the biologist told me I am quite content to keep hunting the other areas he suggested. I will also say that hunting coues in NM is a challenge which can take a lot of time. The coues populations there are in pockets and can take a lot of work to discover. I live in Arizona and don't get to spend as much time scouting in NM as I do here in AZ so it has taken several years to hone in on on some decent coues areas in NM. The first year I hunted for coues in NM I only saw two coues, both were small bucks that I passed on and ended up shooting a 3 point mule deer in the last hour of the last day. Coues hunting in NM is great because of the OTC tags but finding them is a lot of work. Good luck!