TAM

I think that's the same little dive we stop at as well. They've got some tasty mexican food!

I will agree with Lark. The first clear day after a couple of rainy/snowy days always seems to make for the best hunting! I think deer are like people in that if they are cooped up for too long they like to get out and stretch their legs.

I've never hunted 24a so I can'g give you much advise on the area. What I can tell you is that the majority of archery hunters that consistently harvest coues deer with there bows will usually do so by hunting over water during the early hunt, or treestand hunting over salt or scrapes during the late hunt. Go scout the area and find some good pockets where deer activity is high and dump some salt in a secluded spot with a good tree. Once the deer start hitting your salt get a trail camera and set it out over the salt and you can see what's coming in. Don't worry if only does are coming in that will usually change once the rut starts. It's awful late in the year to be starting a salt lick that will be productive for this year, but it's never to early to start one for next year. Once you have a good salt lick going keep tending it and you will have a productive area for years to come.

Thanks Scott. A buddy of mine just purchased a Tikka .270 WSM for our December coues hunt in unit 31 and he'll probably be shooting those same rounds. It's good to know you're actually getting higher velocities than Winchester claims on their website. Most of the time the loads seem to under perform compared to what the manufacturer advertises. You'll have to let us all know how they work on your sons hunt. Good luck!

Hey Scott, which factory ammo are you using to get 3300 fps + out of that 270 wsm. I've checked online with Winchester and Federal and neither list their loads breaking the 3300 fps mark? Were you shooting it through your own chrono or are those the numbers published by the manufacturer? Pretty impressive!

I will pretty much agree with what has already been said. I've had trail cameras out for the past year and a half and I've found that the majority of deer come in mid day. The other thing I've found interesting is that very few deer would come in during total darkness and only a few more actually come in at first and last light. If you want to shoot a coues deer over water you better make it an all day affair.

I once heard a humans sense of smell compared to a dog's in the following way. If a guy comes home from work and his wife is making potato soup the guy can smell potato soup. If a dog were to be there while the soup was cooking the dog would be able to smell potatoes, carrots, celary, onions, salt, pepper, herbs, seasoning, bacon, etc. I'm sure a deer's sense of smell is similar to a dogs in that they can smell all of the individual smells within their surroundings. I'm all for taking measures to control your scent, but the only way to be sure a deer doesn't smell you is to stay down wind!

I live in Mesa and spend lots of time in the Montana Mtn area north of Superior. There are generaly quite a few coues up there from Rogers Trough east to Peachville Mtn, but there are usually quite a few hunters as well. If you can go in the middle of the week you'd be better off. Also in my opinion to many tags are issued and lots of small deer get whacked before they can ever get big. If I'm hunting with a rifle I'm usually after something better than 100 inches, but in that area I'd lower my standard to 90 or better. There are also to many lions. I've gotten lots of pictures with my trail cameras over the last year and two of my buddies have recently seen a total of 3 lions. Good luck!

Does anyone have any information regarding coues hunting the San Carlos in the D east or west zones? I'm considering buying a tag and would like to know any information about deer densitys, genetics, access, is the area glassable or thick oak brush & manzanita? Does one side or the other seem to produce better bucks? I'm just trying to see if I can justify spending the cash for one of these tags. Thanks! TAM PS. And yes I've already sent Amanda an email to see what she can tell me:)

Lark is right on with what he said. I will add that a lot of serious coues hunters prefer to use more gun than is necessary to kill them. There is an active discussion on this sight right now about people using .300 mag's for coues. Any of the .300 mags is a lot more gun than a person actually needs to kill a coues. The reason most guys do this is so they can shoot a rifle with a flat trajectory and enough energy left in the bullet for the long shots coues deer are known for. Many of the traditional "deer calibers" do not preform as well at ranges of 350 yards and more. Coues deer aren't real picky about what kind of bullets will kill 'em, most any well constructed bullet will do the trick. That bullet will knock 'em dead!

Hey Lark, I try and save the sneaking for my archery hunts. When I'm out with my rifle I'm usually looking for a trophy. If I see a trophy coues at 400-500 yards I want him dead, I don't want to loose a good buck cuz my sneaking sucked. The funny thing is that most of my shots have been under 200. I did kill a big bodied mule deer in New Mexico a few years ago at 380 and since he was on the move there wasn't much time to get any closer. That gun sure put a hurt on him. Your right about the .270wsm's they look pretty impressive! I've got a buddy that's looking at getting one.

Well I will have to agree on the .270, but I like a little flatter tragectory. My favorite deer cartridge is a .270 Weatherby Magnum. My reloads shoot a 130 grain bullet over 3,500 FPS out the muzzle. Dead on @ 300 yards, 8-9 inches low @ 400, and 20-21 inches low at 500. Best of all it will knock a coues deer off its feet and it'll be dead before it hits the ground!

A little tip I try and use is to never walk the same path twice. Even if it means walking only 10 or 15 feet from the same trail I've walked before. That way you can cover twice as much ground.

I was once out during a January archery deer hunt in unit 22 a few years ago. I was hunting off one of the powerline roads where I had parked my Jeep and hiked probably 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile to a good vantage point where I could glass. A couple of hours after the sun came up I could hear quads and gun shots on the hill side below me. Over a period of 20 minutes or so gradually these 3 yahoo's on quads (I think they were quail hunting) made their way up the side of the hill towards me. I wasn't real concealed but they never saw me and rode within 10 feet of where I was sitting. There was no trail or road within half a mile and I was pissed that these guys were riding off road so when they got to about 10 feet away I jumped up and yelled and scared one of them. The guy was so shocked that he half jumped, half fell off his quad and the quad ran into some brush. He got mad that I would jump out and scare him like that, so I told him that what he was doing was illeagal and I would report him. He and his buddies acted big and tough but in the end they knew I was right and they tucked their tails and left. After they finally left my brother in-law came out from behind some bushes nearby where he had been watching the whole thing. He had been glassing deer from another vantage point about a hundred yards away where he watched as I scared the guy. He said it was the funniest thing he ever saw watching that guy bail off his quad! He had snuck in closer to offer some back up in case the 3 guys got too hot. I wish I could have had a video tape of that guys reaction! A bit later as we were driving out we came across a Game Cop who very professionally checked our tags and licenses. We told him about the guys on the quads and he went to investigate. Quads are great when they are used properly!

Between myself and a friend we have about 5 or 6 trail cameras and they are all inexpensive ones except for one. The cheap ones all work just fine if placed properly. The key to good placement is aim them away from the sun. I actually prefer to buy the cheap cameras because I can sleep better at night knowing that if it's stolen it's not a huge financial loss. My buddy and I both had cameras stolen off a water tank in a very remote area this past spring, and it really pissed me off! Both cameras were pad locked to the tree with a cable. I believe the majority of trail cameras that are stolen are stolen by other hunters. To me it's sad to think that hunters have so little respect for each other. I personally think that trail cameras can be an extremly effective tool for scouting and locating game animals when you can't physically be in the field. If I had to guess I would say that in the last 6-8 months we have gotten pictures of literally hundreds of coues deer, lots of elk, some javelina, 10 mountain lions, dozens of bear, coyotes, fox, ringtail, turkey, hawk. To me trail cameras are money and time well spent!

Normaly I like mine set for 2-5 minutes on water holes and salt licks. There is one water hole that I had to set my camera for 10 minutes because the deer would play around for awhile and use the entire roll of film in two days.

Check out the AZ G&F website. They have unit by unit hunting reports and I know the information they have for 24b is right on the money. You may want to use the areas they list as starting points since there will be a lot of other hunters in those spots as well.

Just thought I'd chime in and vouch for Treestandman. I'm the friend who showed him the tank where this all took place and I'm actually the one who first looked at the picture and noticed the lion in the back ground. If you didn't know there was a lion sitting there you would never notice it, but the picture is real. I also have another friend who was within a couple miles of this same spot earlier in the week and witnessed two lions together. He shot at one and missed. Also in this same general area last summer I got a picture with three lions at the same time with one of my trail cameras. It was likley a mother with a couple of one year old kittens. Most people would be surprised how many lions are actually out there roaming the mountains.

I would go and pay the $100 it costs for the "National Geographic" topo map software for the state of Arizona. It costs a little more up front but will save you time and money in the long run. It will allow you to zoom in on ANY area you wish in the entire state and also has features where you can import/export waypoints with your GPS. You can print all the maps you please over and over again. If you get drawn for a different area next year you can use the software to look at it to. Don't waste your money on paper maps the software is much better! You can purchase it at Wide World of Maps. I'm not sure, but if there is a forrest service map for your area you may want to buy it just to show you where any private land is located. Good luck!

Bret, use 400 speed film. If you use 200 you won't get as much range or detail at night.

If you are electronicly challenged like myself, try going to ebay for the best deals. My friend and I have bought 7 or 8 from there and had great success. Most of the cameras we buy are under a $100 and have performed very well. I have used the Deer Cam DC100, Vision, Stealth Cam, and Moultrie's all with very good success. All of mine have been 35mm film and have some draw backs like the cost of film and developing, and being limited to 24 pictures at a time. But they cost half as much as the digital cameras and I can afford to buy more of them and have several working for me at once. They are a lot of fun and a huge help for scouting!

Shiras, I've hunted in New Mexio's unit 23 for the last 3 years straight and only seen a handful of coues. In fact I've only seen a handful of deer period. The first year I went I ended up shooting a fat 3x3 carp in the bottom of a nasty canyon about a half hour before dark. It sure made for a fun hike bringing him out in the dark, especially after my only flashlight broke. Unit 23 has been mis managed and over hunted for many years and the deer population is hurting pretty bad. The good news is that NM is finally going to start managing the deer a little better and will be going to a draw in 2005. I also believe they will be managing for coues and carp seperatly. There are some good genetics there and hopefully after a few years of management the deer herds will rebound. The coues deer there will usually live in small pockets and it generally takes some scouting to figure out which canyon they're in or which ridgeline they're on. This can take time, so don't hesitate to shoot a carp if you get the chance! It might be the only chance you get.

I think they're smoking CRACK!

I shot one with my bow on some guys ranch a few years ago with my bow. The ranch was off the San Pedro down by San Manuel somewhere. It sure made good breakfast sausage.

I personally don't think anyone, including the AZ G&F, should discount any idea. Many people are speculating that certain ideas or solutions are already discriminatory to NR's and therefor we can't use them. AZ G&F could go ahead and impliment just about any new rule they want as long as it does not impose on the current ruling. At that point if NR's or USO doesn't like the new rule they would have to go and start the legal process all over again. It could be tied up in court for several more years. In fact it is very reasonable to think that no matter what new rules AZ G&F puts in place we will be sued by USO or anyone else that is not happy with the end result. You can be sued for just about anything these days!