TAM

Atypical, this is just my opinion and I'm sure others will be different, but you can take it for what it's worth. First off lets just be clear on one thing... if you're looking for an excuse to buy a new rifle then don't let me talk you out of it. Go for it! To me if you've been shooting a .30-06 for 25 years why change now? Especially if you're only stepping up to a .300 win mag? In my opinion a .300 win mag is only a slight upgrade in velocity and energy from a .30-06. Consider your ought six is probably shooting factory loads in the 2800 to 2900 fps range. A .300 win mag will shoot the same loads 3000 -3100 fps. To me you'd be much better off sticking with your tried and true .30-06 and spending your money on a reloading press and developing a little hotter load for the gun you already own. Plus you will more than likely gain some accuracy with your new hand loads as an added bonus. I just don't see a $600-$800 benefit to stepping up to the .300 win mag when your .30-06 is plenty for what you're asking it to do. Perhaps another caliber with a little more pop if you really want a new rifle?

Here's a link to a website with a pretty good ballistic calculator that you may find helpful. http://www.biggameinfo.com/BalCalc.aspx With a 130 grain bullet at 3100 fps muzzle velocity you should still have over 2000 fps at 500 and over 1000 foot pounds of kenetic energy which is more than enough to kill a coues deer. My biggest concern would be your hold over. You're looking at between about 26 inches and 32 inches of drop at 500 yards depending on what distance you zero in at (between 200 and 300 yards). If you were to use your current set up you would need a good scope with either some sort of mil dots, a TDS style reticle like Swarowski's, or a ballistic compensator knob like the Kenton Industries. Then it just takes a lot of practice to get comfortable at those distances. A longer barrel is a possibility, but the best estimates are usually 25-50 fps per inch. You'd really only be looking at gains in the 100 fps range so it's probably not worth the money spent. Spend the money on some reloading equipment and you can probably get the same gains with a hot load. JMO Good luck and have fun!

Just north of Kanab Utah there is a place called Moqui Cave. Kind of a tourist mesuem. They have all sorts of rocks, indian artifacts, and even what they claim are dinasour tracks. It's a neat place to stop with the kids if you're ever driving through Kanab.

OUCH!!! That one hurt Dogman! I didn't choose to be born in California, and at least I got out of there when I was only eight years old while there was still hope. Your point about a cattle rancher finding a new career if he can't get it right after 30 years of trying pretty much sums it up. Isin't there a saying something like..... you can't change the results if you don't change the recipe. I guess my opinion is that sometimes the simple way is the better way. All the biologists and science in the world doesn't mean a thing if we keep killing too many deer each year, especially the does. The scientific equation should be simple... kill fewer deer until the herds are able to rebound. I think managing the lions will be less effective at very best. I'm not a biologist either, but I'd guess that the ratio of lions per deer on the Kiabab is pretty similar to anywhere else in Arizona or perhaps even the west. I think the problem is that the G&F wants to over manage the deer by killing does and allow for a lot of hunter opportunity. Stop killing does and issue fewer permits and I'll bet money the deer come back. The lions are just an easy scapegoat.

Dogman, with regards to the "too many lions on the kaibab" theory... in your opinion are there significantly more lions there than anywhere else in Arizona, or is the theory just a convienent excuse?

Why waste the 5K when you've got a dog like Hap??? With a little work I'm sure you could have him sniffing antlers in no time!

I got skunked as well!!! Good luck to all those that drew tags.

That's right! I almost forgot Randy brought two dogs, Rowdy and the deer runner!

Sounds like a good plan to me! I think Red Ruby was along on our hunt last year? Wasn't she the younger white and brown dog? I think she had to stay in the kennel the day the others treed the lion because she had sore feet.

Hey Dogman it's good to see you're still hanging around here time to time! Sorry to hear about Rusty. I'll bet you'll think about her every time you hear a bell ring. My boys will be sad that she's gone. My 6 year old boy knows all there names and still asks from time to time if Hap and Rusty and Mike and Roxy will help him tree a lion when he's 10. I'm in the process of moving up to Prescott this weekend, so I guess we'll be neighbors...... sort of. I finally have the chance to get out of the heat and congestion of the valley. I can't wait! Take care, Tim

Yep the rumors are true! I shot one about 8 years ago with my bow down near San Manuel. It was a young one, perhaps 50 or 60 pounds. There were a bunch of other young ones in the herd with a big sow. I'm guessing the sow weighed over 100 lbs. Some guy had a farm or ranch down there I think on the San Pedro river? The pigs were out of control and were tearing up the place so he wanted them shot. I was on private land, but the pigs were running wild and not constrained by fences or anything. I'm not sure how they got there or if they're even still there.

Yep, that Hap is a stud! I owe the lion I shot last January to Hap, Rusty, Mike, and Roxy. Of course Randy and Josh did there part as well! Congrats on a nice cat!!! Here's a pic of the dogs so every one can see them. Hap is the black one on the top with Rusty right next to him, and Mike and Roxy are on the tail gate. Hopefully I got the right names with the right dogs, it's been over a year since I've seen them.

Results are up! I didn't get my oryx tag

Looks like you knocked 'em dead, way to go!

That looks nice! Do they have an option for another seat or seats in the back?

Redline, I'm always game for comparing notes, but I've spent very little time on that side of the unit(s). In fact 24b used to be one of my top units, but over the past several years I've really seen the numbers of coues, muley, and javelina go down hill fast! I spend very little time there anymore. I'n my opinion way to many tags are being offered.

This time of year the rutting activity is probably hit and miss. My guess is the rutting activity that younghunter saw over the weekend is the second rut. If a doe does not breed during the first rut in January she will come into cycle again in about 30 days. Usually the second rut is not as wide spread as the first rut and can often times be focused around a single doe that has gone into heat. From my experience with 24b most of the serious rutting is occuring the last week of December into the first week of January.

Congrats guys those are some nice looking porkers!

Here's a couple pic's of the javelina that my 6 year old son Kade helped me find, stalk, and shoot on Saturday. We glassed him up at nearly a mile away before making a difficult stalk through the cat claw and rough terrain before shooting him with my rifle at 88 yards. Kade helped me gut him and then led the way on our pack out. We were hunting with Greg McBride and his 19 year old daughter Bethany. After several attempts we were able to get Bethany and myself lined up on two pigs, we then waited for them to stand still long enough for us to count to three and shoot. One....two....three......BOOMB!!!! We both had pigs. Kade was thrilled! As usual he had a million questions but learned alot as well. Things like what catclaw is, they don't call them stink hogs for nothing, and of course everthing gets to take one last crap when it dies! The worse part about the entire hunt was that I had to be the one to pull the trigger. Kade is already counting down the days until he's 10 and can get his own tag. Kade with our pig. Kade taking a nap in the sun after a long day. Notice the cool Batman skull cap!

I've definatly seen this in units 22 and 24b. Areas that used to hold mostly mule deer now hold coues. Even though coues are smaller than muleys they are more aggressive and are the more dominate species. They also seem to sustain themselves better during times of drought and cold.

One sunny day in 2008, an old man approached the White House from across Pennsylvania Avenue , where he'd been sitting on a park bench. He spoke to the Marine standing guard and said, "I would like to go in and meet with President Hillary Clinton " The Marine replied, "Sir, Mrs. Clinton is not President and doesn't reside here." The old man said, "Okay," and walked away. The following day, the same man approached the White House and said to the same Marine, "I would like to go in and meet with President Hillary Clinton". The Marine again told the man, "Sir, as I said yesterday, Mrs. Clinton is not President and doesn't reside here." The man thanked him and again walked away.. The third day, the same man approached the White House and spoke to the very same Marine, saying "I would like to go in and meet with President Hillary Clinton." The Marine, understandably agitated at this point, looked at the man and said, "Sir, this is the third day in a row you have been here asking to speak to Mrs. Clinton. I've told you already several times that Mrs. Clinton is not the President and doesn't reside here. Don't you understand?" The old man answered, "I know, I just love to hear you say it!" The Marine snapped to attention, saluted, and said, "See you tomorrow."

Red Rabbit, with the turrets you still re-zero your rifle/scope if you change loads right? I think for a guy like yourself that likes to change loads a lot the turrets would be the way to go! I always worry that on those longer shots where your adjusting a lot of clicks that I'm going to loose count of my clicks during all the excitement or worse yet forget got reset back to zero. Although I think many of the target turrets have ways of marking your zero so you can always go back to it. For a guy like me that has just one load, I like the BDC. For the most part my coues hunting is done around 5,000 foot elevation and anything plus or minus a thousand feet will not have a huge impact on my BDC out to 600 or even 700 yards. For my rifle and loads at 800 yards there is only a 1 click change going from 5,000 to 6,000 elevation. For me I think it's just easier to set my BDC to 800 yards and then make the 1 click adjustment for the altitude. I just like the idea of having all the drop chart data build in to the BDC, and if I were to have to pay for a couple of them for different loads and such I think I'd be ok with that too. Thanks!

Casey, I agree with what you're saying about the elevation. I'm not sure what lines you are talking about though? Are you thinking of a TDS Reticle? The extra cross hairs they put in the scope? The Kenton Industries knobs are machined knobs that fit onto the target turrets of your scope. You send them all of your ballistic data and load information and they custom build the knob to your loads. Now instead of looking at the drop chart taped to your rifle stock, the yardages are built into the knobs of your scope. Are we talking about the same thing? Look at this website. http://www.kentonindustries.com/

In my opinion the Zeiss is brighter than the Leupold's, and I've heard that they hold up very well. Red Rabbit, I'm trying to understand your comment about the Kenton BDC. You mention that a couple of it's faults are that it's load specific, and altitude specific. I agree that it has both of these limitations, but wouldn't a turret suffer from these same issues as well? Most people that go with the turrets use some sort of ballistic calculator to figure the ballistics for a specific load, bullet, altitude, etc. Then they tape a drop chart to the stock to refer to in the field. While in the field ready to shoot they may still have to make some adjustments for altitude won't they? For example: if there drop chart was based on shooting at 5,000 foot elevation and they are about to shoot at a 6,000 foot elevation, then there drop chart is off? It's not off by much, but at a long distance it could be enough to miss the animal. Right? The BDC's are basicly a drop chart built into a turrent aren't they? In most cases 1 click still equals 1/4" MOA. So isn't it reasonable to think that if you were shooting at a different elevation than either your drop chart or your BDC that you could add or subtract a click or two to adjust for your elevation? Seems like having all the drop info built into your turret would be quicker and easier than looking at a drop chart on your stock and counting clicks etc? Especially if your heart is racing? It just seems to me that which ever style you chose to shoot with that either way you may still have to account for elevation adjustments in the field. If a person understands how the BDC works those adjustments are still possible under field conditions aren't they? Thanks, Tim

Gino, You may want to take a look at the Ziess Conquest line up. They have a 4-14x50 and a 6-20x50 that are both priced under a grand. Also you may want to look into the Kenton Industries Tuned Tragectry Compensator (TTC). If you send them the info on the loads you're shooting they'll make you a knob for your scope that will allow you to adjust your scope to your desired target range. That way there is no hold over or TDS type reticle's to mess with. Here's a link to the website. http://www.kentonindustries.com/ Good luck!