TAM

It is just unbelievable to me that some people think they can "claim" a spot like that! It's only a matter of time before a stupid sign like this starts a fight and ends up getting someone hurt or killed. Read the regs people. First come first served and that doesn't mean claiming your spot a month in advance!

Excellent post, TAM... I agree 100%. I'd like to add something to it, but you pretty much said everything I wanted to!! Boys, I happen to be a "Card Carring Member" of the P&Y Club..... and so as you know, I have no problem with the fact that you are not. But, you gotta know that I am a member and I do support them, not just because I have legitimate trophies listed in thier ranks, but because they help in the fight to preserve this sport that I love. It is more than just legality.... I'm not a religious man, but I do my best not to take God's name in vain...... even though it is perfectly legal to do so.... I just choose to be better than that.... whenever I can, not that I am perfect... That I am NOT!!! Gino, kinda sounded like I was bashin the B&C and P&Y. Didn't mean to come across that way or sound disrespectful to a good orginization! They both do a lot of good out there for hunters, I choose to put my support in other orginizations like the NRA, and the Arizona Deer Association. I can't afford to support them all, but they all do good for our sport in there own way. My point was that I will not allow ANY person, group, or orginization to dictate where I should set my own personal standards. Including those groups that I do support financially or otherwise. It's awfully arrogant for anyone to hold me to there own set of standards. I will define what I consider "fair chase" and I will live by it, but I won't expect anyone else to. I have a couple legitimate animals that I could enter into P&Y, but I just don't care to. Not that I'm against entering them, it's just not my thing. Your point about choosing to be better than that is well taken. We should all be striving to become better people and better hunters. I still stand by my point that the law is the minimum bar for any code of ethics, but over time as we strive to become better perhaps our personal code of ethics will be increased a notch or two? JMO and It's probably not even worth .02 I think this one has run its course. I'm bowing out. Thanks Redbeard and everyone else for a enjoyable discussion!

Screw the record books! All of them, B&C, P&Y, and SCI. Just because you follow there rules doesn't mean the rest of us will. Don't hold us to your standards. Since when in life should we start allowing groups and orginizations to dictate what's right or wrong? That is each individuals God given right to choose for themselves. To assume that everyone that hunts will subscribe to the same set of ethics that was set up by the Boon & Crockett Club is crazy! As far as I'm concerned the law sets the minimum bar. If you choose to live a higher standard good for you, but please don't expect me to do the same. How many people here are card carrying members of the B&C or P&Y? Those should be the ones that you're preaching to. I'm not a member, and have no intention of joining.

Thanks guys! Scott, I'll figure out shipping and let you know. Do you have a preferance which carrier or just the least expensive? Mike, will you or perhaps Gino be out this way anytime soon? I'll be going through Payson on Thursday September 12th if you can wait that long? Let me know. The Leupold scope is still for sale!

I just saw my first two Grizzly bear at Yellowstone NP a few weeks ago. They sure are impressive animals! Thanks for sharing the pic's.

Are the Grizz interior or coastal?

I don't think McCain is a closet liberal, I think he's a politician. He will do whatever he thinks is necessary to win the election. Right now the reputation of the Republican party is in the toilet. In the public eye our sitting president has done a poor job and that has really hurt the GOP! McCain is just trying to lean towards the middle to gain back some of the lost votes. It's all smoke and mirrors. He hasn't changed his heart he's just changed his appearance! By the way it's no different than what Obama is doing/saying about gun control and many other issues. He tries to appear more consertive on the issue than he really is. It's an election! These politations try to APPEAL to as many people as possible. Once they win they go back and vote any way they choose to vote regardless what they told you during the campaing. Plain and simple there are only two people that have ANY chance of winning the election and Ron Paul aint one of them! A vote for him is a vote for Obama! Perhaps it will make you feel better and you will get some satisfaction out of proving your point, but the truth is you will be cutting off your nose despite your face! Just to set the record straight I don't want to come across as a huge McCain supporter. I'm not. I didn't vote for him in the primarys, but I will vote for him in the general because it's going to be a close race and I don't want Obama to win.

Tracy, funny you ask about the weight. Josh and Randy packed that thing off the mountain guts and all just so we could put it on a scale so we wouldn't have to guess. The truth is I don't even remember. Sorry guys! I'm thinking maybe 138lbs??? Perhaps Josh or Randy can recall? I really don't care, that lion was everything I ever dreamed of! Being able to follow Randy Epperson and his pack of dogs was an amazing experience that everyone should try to do at least once in there life!

You're right it sends a message, but it's still a vote for Obama!

Redbeard, I think there is a fine line. Let me try to explain my position. I don't feel like I have to judge people for doing things that I'm against. I'm now 35 years old and have set up my own standards in life. Sort of like a set of boundaries on how I choose to live. Just because someone chooses to do something that falls outside my personal boundaries doesn't mean that I'm judging that person, it simply means that I choose to do things a little differently. For example. I don't smoke cigaretts. Never have, never will. That's just something I choose not to do. It has nothing to do with judging anyone else that chooses to smoke cigaretts. It's legal, it's there decision, and I respect there right to choose. Your example about judging someone for being a child molester is apples to oranges. That is illegal and using radios is perfectly legal in Arizona. By the way there are some states that using radios is illegal, and therefore using radios in those states would be unethical. Also, just because B&C has decided to come up with there own defination of "fair chase" doesn't mean that everyone will agree with it. Just like someone posted earlier that they don't think baiting for animals is ethical and B&C thinks it's ok. It's the same thing with politics. Just because I'm a republican doesn't mean I agree with 100% of there ideals. We don't have to be judgmental of others to live by our own set of boundaries.

I'm not sure how it's disrespectful to the animal to NOT enter it into the books? I wonder how many people on this site have killed P&Y class animals and not enetered them? I know I have. If anything I believe people today use the record books as a tool to stroke their own ego's and try to achieve hunting fame through them. Redbeard, I have real mixed feelings about this topic. I will admit I have used radios to help guide hunters in the past, but never with success. I have come to my own PERSONAL decision that since it's legal, at least in Arizona, it becomes an ethics issue. Everyone's ethics are slightly different. We can't judge people based on there differing view on ethics. In several states it's still against the law to hunt on Sunday. Is hunting on Sunday unethical? Perhaps to a religious person it is? One of the big time hunters, I think Jim Shockey but don't hold me to it, Thinks it's unethical to shoot bedded game. I disagree, but if that's a standard he wants to hold himself to then that's fine with me. Where do you draw the line with using electronics to assist in taking game. Does using a flashlight or GPS in the darkness of early dawn to find your treestand count? What about using a radio to check in with the guys at camp? What about a trail camera during the season to find that shooter buck? What about laser rangefinders they're electronic devices? We can go on all day. Everyone will choose to draw the line in different spot, but at the end of the day as long as it's with in the law we shouldn't look down our nose at anyone just for choosing to believe a little differently then we do. Just my .02 cents.

Desertbull, I have to (respectfully) disagree with the idea behind a write in name. I see here that you are pretty anti Obama and a vote for anyone other than McCain is effectively a vote for Obama. I see and even agree with what you're thinking, but realisticly it's a wasted vote. That's one reason the primarys are so important. I know voting for the lesser of two evils sucks (I'm not happy about it either) but if you actually want your vote to count then vote for one of the two names on the ballot.

I believe for coati it's called a troop.

I just got back from our family vacation to Yellowstone National Park. We had a great time and enjoyed the beautiful scenery. We saw Bison, Elk, Antelope, Deer, and the best part was watching two Grizzly bears for about twenty minutes. This bull walked right down the middle of the road without a care in the world. I took the picture from the window of our car from about 6 feet away. It was a little intimidating! This bull was sleeping about 40 yards off the side of the road.

Jack, did you just recently take a picture of the Antelope buck on your Avatar? I've been watching one just like it.

Closing the roads is one step closer to closing the forests all together. There are a buncha tree hugger type groups that want the forests closed and they will use all the bogus science they can come up with to get there way.

What do I win for gettin it right?

This has OIL written all over it. In a perfect world I think things of this nature should be monitored by good scientific facts. The problem I see right now is that those that are in charge of the science part aren't doing a very good job! A perfect example is the wolf situation going on in Wyoming. Another good example of the scientists dropping the ball is the wolf/dog hybrid habitat expansion discssions going on right now in Arizona. It seems to me that often times the so called scientists have a hidden agenda they're trying to accomplish in the name of science. Like introduce more wolves/dogs over a larger area so we can force the forest service to close down more roads so the poor wolf/dogs can be left alone. I think the scientists and politations have intermingled into one big ball of red tape!

24B

Thanks Gino, I've got a camera hanging in 19A right now. That little tid bit will sure help me sleep better.........NOT! Cool Pic's!

That's pretty much what I did with Josh (Aka: Grong) and his dad Randy Epperson. I told them I wanted to go and Josh called me when they had a couple of lions that were hitting the same scratches/areas on a somewhat regular basis. As luck turned out they ended up getting a call from another houndsman that had been told about a fresh kill that we could go hunt. We chased this lion on dry ground for two days off the kill and finally on the second day, Hap, Rusty, Mike and Roxy put him in a tree! The hunt was really planed at the last minute and not months in advance for a certain date.

Notice what time that bear came in on a couple of those pic's? When it comes to water, they're not always as nocturnal as people think. That last buck is a stud. You need to kill him!

Well lets see some of them pictures then!!! Do you think he kept the pic of the 440 inch non-typical bull and deleted it off the card before he gave it back?

If it aint yours, then don't mess with it!!!!! It's really that simple. I'm a contractor and I can't tell you how many thousands of dollars worth of tools I've seen left at job sites (abandoned?) after the work crews have packed up and left for the day. I could have a garage full of cool stuff from nail guns to generators by now. The simple fact is that I don't want someone else's stuff if I haven't paid for it myself. Why do people have a problem living by such a simple code of honor? To say a camera was abandoned/litter in the forest is nothing more than a cheap rationalization for a scum bag to make him self feel good about stealing it.

Nice lopes, but if you're looking for better than 84, keep on lookin.