TAM

+ one more for the Leica 1200

Last year I shot 3 deer, 1 antelope, and 1 javelina with 130 grain sierra game kings with a muzzle velocity of 3,550 fps. All 5 animals dropped in there tracks, and with the exception of the javelina none of the bullets exited the animal. The year before I shot a deer and a javelina with the same bullets and same results. I'm just curious why it would be considered a negative to have the bullet "explode" inside an animal and turn the chest cavity into soup? I personally look for a bullet that will explode inside the animal. That way the animal eats 100% of the bullets remaining kenetic energy, and in my experience never even moves another step. In my opinion they're performing perfectly. Not trying to pick a fight, just curious how you came to this conclusion?

+1 for the 15's. I have both and spend way more time behind the binos than the scope. Not even close.

Up here in Prescott the Firemen are making all the money. There are quite a few that have contractors licenses and do some sort of construction on the side. Many of them are making more money from construction and are just using the Fire Department to get retirement benefits. I know of a few that work down in the Phoenix area and live up here. I guess the commute aint so bad if you only have to make it once a week and I guess the pay is better in the valley.

I'm going to New Mexico the end of next week for a rifle antelope hunt. I think we got assigned to a pretty good area, so hopefully this will be my year for an 80 incher.

I once had one of my cameras locked to the base of a ponderosa pine with a python cable lock. I lost the key and had to drive back into Payson to buy a pair of bolt cutters to go back and get it. A few months later I found the key.

15 feet!!! Dude, what are you smoking??? signs only have to be every 1/4 mile and at gates and corners. Trespassing can be a revocable offense! Catclaw is right. Every quarter mile, and at gates and corners. Also in lieu of a sign every quarter mile they can have the fence post painted florecent orange. Pages 96 & 97 in the 2008-09 Arizona deer regulations.

I should hope it is still stealing if I leave something I own on public property and someone takes it. I leave my truck on public land when I go out in the morning to hunt. Does that mean that someone can just come and take it because I left it? What about my tent and camp equipment? What you're saying is just a cheap rationalization that dirty scum use to make them feel better about taking something that isn't theirs. If it's not yours don't mess with it! YES IT'S STILL STEALING!

Heres a load I just cooked up the other day for my 270 Weatherby Mag. 140 grain Berger VLD's 68 Grains IMR 7828 SSC Federal 215's I haven't shot it through a chrony yet, but I'd guess it in the neighborhood of 3300 FPS I'm hopeful to find a little bit of time at the range this next week so I can use these Berger 140's on my Antelope hunt in New Mexico in a couple weeks. I won't have time to do any serious long range load development, but hopefully I'll feel good out to 500 yards or so. 100 yards - 0.28 inch three shot group.

In my opinion I don't think the level of experience for the VP is nearly as important as the level of experience of the President. The Obama camp would be wise to leave that one alone. If Palins daughter being pregnant and her husband getting a DUI are the worst things people can dig up on her then what's the problem? I'll bet the number of politicians themselves with DUI's is staggering! And in this case it's not even the politician it's her husband. As far as the pregnancy is concerned it's already obvious they're going to take a positive spin from it by the talk about the daughter marrying the guy that knocked her up. Both concerns are pretty insignificant if you ask me. The good news is that in a tight election like this one how many women voters are going to vote for the women canidate? Even if only 2-3% of women pull away from Obama and go with McCain/Palin it could be HUGE to the GOP! Sure seems to me like they went out and got a Washington outsider that won't be linked to Bush along with a person that will increase the number of women votes. Two fer one!

If that's the case, then I'd say for the money I don't think you can do better than the Ziess. I have the 6.5-20 and it is a very good piece of glass. I feel it is brighter in low light than the Leupold and I've been happy with the repeatibility of the clicks. By the way I'm not sure what they charge at the big name stores, but I think Doug at Camera Land is at least a couple hundred dollars cheaper. I think I paid $650 for mine when other stores were all over $800. Just a thought. Good luck and just remember to do your field work at long ranges. Don't rely on a computer ballistic program to spit out numbers and be dead nuts accurate. The computer will be close but you will likley need to make some adjustments at longer ranges. Good luck!

Casey, at this point you sound like you're arguing just for the sake of arguing? The Huskema scopes have cllicks in 1/3 MOA. I'm really not sure what you mean by "clicks in 25 yard increments"? I've never heard of a scope where a click equals 25 yards? What would you do for different ranges? Perhaps you are referring to the hash marks that indicate the different yardages? The number of clicks will vary between hash marks, it just depends on how far you are shooting. No body is slamming your system! This conversation is starting to remind me of the Berger Bullet discussion where you told us over and over again how bad of a hunting bullet they are and now as of a few days ago you tell us you are going to give them a try. It's OK if you like your system better then ours! Neither of us are after your approval, we are just shooting what works well for us.

Do you guys really think that the McCain and Obama camps are really going to run friendly campaings??? Not in this country! Let the mud slinging begin!

No, I think he was saying that if your distance wasn't exactly on one of your crosshairs then you're still just guessing.

I bought a Swarovski doubler right when they first came out. I was very disappointed in the clarity and sold it on Ebay after just one outing with it. Save your money and buy a spotting scope.

Nice work!

Casey you are right on with that senario! No shot for either of us, especially at long range and a moving deer. But what happens when that buck pauses to take one last look back at you before he goes over the hill? Do you have enough time to make the shot before he moves on? Sooner or later this will happen to you! Like I said before, it's splitting hairs at this point and I'm just trying to do everything in my power to sway the odds in my favor. There is nothing wrong with your system, but you have to admit the Huskemaw system is very user friendly and flat out works! I also hate to inform you, but Murphy's Law says that after everything you just said in defense of your system... well, uh you're gonna be in a position this November on your deer hunt where one more second would have gotten the job done on that monster skull cap you've been dreaming all year about! Just be sure and let me know when it happens so I can say I told you so

When I'm feeling like getting close I just pick up my bow. Hunting with a rifle isnt' about getting close. so what is hunting with a rifle about? seeing how far away you can get before you make a reckless or wounding shot? Take is somewhere else dude! We were in the middle of a intelligent conversation. If you choose to disagree thats fine but don't hijack this topic and pick a fight just because you think you're better than us!

Thank you Casey you just proved my point All I have to do with my Huskemaw Optics System is range find my target and adjust the turrets to that range. With your system you have to range the target, look at your range card to find the correct number of clicks, then dial the turrets. Huskemaw = two steps then pull the trigger, Zeiss = three steps then pull the trigger. You may not think that one extra step is a big deal, and your probably right... most of the time. But for me I want to eliminate as many of the extra steps as possible. As I said before I have a Zeiss Conquest scope and love it! I'm not slammin other systems at all. I just like the simplicity of the Huskemaw system better. Also your comment about the ballistic calculator coming within 1 click of your rifles POI proves my other point. If you ONLY rely on the ballistic calculator to figure your drop chart, TDS reticle, or ballistic drop turrets then you are ONLY close with your long range POI, not dead on. The only way to be dead on is to do the field work yourself. One click off at a long range target could be the difference between hitting or missing, or worse yet killing versus wounding. I don't own a TDS type system so I really can't comment on them. For me they just don't seem flexible enough for my hunting needs. So Tim, let me run my process of figuring out my scope and clicks past you, and tell me if it is different then the Huskema. (I dont think that it is). A. Develop a load that shoots well, get 10+ rounds shot over the chronograph for average velocity. B. Plug all necessary info into the ballistics calculator that you posted and come up with my clicks (the divide by 4) C. Go shoot at ranges to check the clicks, if they are not dead on, fix them. Am I missing something, or is that pretty much what is done with the Huskemaw system also? And does that one extra step (reading 2 or 3 numbers on a piece of paper mounted to the stock) REALLY mean the difference between harvesting/not harvesting a deer? Casey, you're pretty much right on. One of the keys in the Huskemaw system is that when you provide them with your field data they are able to figure out what your true ballistic coeificient is and figure that into your turret. Yes, you could do that yourself and figure it into your drop chart that is taped on the stock of your rifle. As far as your last question is concerned let me just put it like this... while you are taking the one extra step in your system, so is the deer! Sometimes one step or one second is all it takes to loose an opportunity. Also for what it's worth there is the possibility that you read the wrong line or wrong number from your drop chart and then dial in the wrong number of clicks. This happened to me in Mexico this past year. This all may seem like splitting hairs to you, and the truth is you're right! When it comes to shooting my bow or rifle I will always try to do everything in my power to create the perfect system. With long range shooting you have very little room for error and I try to remove anything and everything that may be a problem. Don't get me wrong Casey, tbere is no doubt that you have a good reliable system and you've taken the time to practice at various ranges. When it comes to the moment of truth I'd bet money that the Huskemaw system would put you on target faster every time.

When I'm feeling like getting close I just pick up my bow. Hunting with a rifle isnt' about getting close.

Thank you Casey you just proved my point All I have to do with my Huskemaw Optics System is range find my target and adjust the turrets to that range. With your system you have to range the target, look at your range card to find the correct number of clicks, then dial the turrets. Huskemaw = two steps then pull the trigger, Zeiss = three steps then pull the trigger. You may not think that one extra step is a big deal, and your probably right... most of the time. But for me I want to eliminate as many of the extra steps as possible. As I said before I have a Zeiss Conquest scope and love it! I'm not slammin other systems at all. I just like the simplicity of the Huskemaw system better. Also your comment about the ballistic calculator coming within 1 click of your rifles POI proves my other point. If you ONLY rely on the ballistic calculator to figure your drop chart, TDS reticle, or ballistic drop turrets then you are ONLY close with your long range POI, not dead on. The only way to be dead on is to do the field work yourself. One click off at a long range target could be the difference between hitting or missing, or worse yet killing versus wounding. I don't own a TDS type system so I really can't comment on them. For me they just don't seem flexible enough for my hunting needs.

Yes Swarovski lets you enter the altitude and temperature, but it does not REQUIRE you to shoot your rifle at long distance to figure the drop chart. That is the problem with there system, it's a computer figuring it out with math. With the Huskemaw system you actually shoot the rifle at various ranges and provide them with the real life data and they make you a turret based on real life data. By actually shooting the rifle at various distances they are able to figure out the true ballistic coeficent. Most manufactures BC's they have listed on the box are inaccurate. Also the true BC of the bullet changes at different velocitys, just using the manufactures number listed on the box may get you by, but it won't be dead on. Yes Casey the Zies turrets are very nice. I have a set on my Conquest too, but doing all that math in my head at the moment of truth is beyond me. After all I barley passed high school and don't have one of them fancy degrees from NAU. The math is just one extra step the Huskemaw system eliminates. I really have no idea how long it takes to have them work on your rifle from Gunwerks, but it only takes about 10 days for them to make one of the custom turrets. There is no reason for you to send them your rifle unless you are just too lazy to sight it in for yourself. You are never stuck buying there rounds! You can use any rounds you like, factory or hand loads. In fact you can have different turrets made for different rounds. Remember they are customizing the turrets to your exact rifle/load, not the other way around. Amanda, Here is a link to a ballistic calculator. Play around with the different altitude and temperature adjustments and you should get a pretty good idea of how much effect these factors have on your POI. It will be more pronounced at longer ranges. I think a lot of people have a couple of turrets made for different elevation and temperature ranges. Temperature and Altitude will effect ANY turret or TDS type reticle, not just the Huskemaw. http://www.biggameinfo.com/BalCalc.aspx I'm not trying to say that this system is for everyone. As we learned from Redbeards recent thread "different strokes for different folks". Like anything there are pro's and con's that need careful consideration. In the end I feel like this system accounts for important data that the other systems don't, it also eliminates time consuming and mentaly chalenging steps, and it just plain works!

Got any bigger pic's?

+1 for the Huskemaw Optics 5-20X50 with 30mm tube. As Gino mentioned the glass and quality are all top notch. This is the only scope that I'm aware of where you actually shoot and record data at long ranges. You then send the data into the factory and they create a dial that is specific to your rifle, caliber, load, bullet. As far as I know the others just use your bullets listed ballistic coeficient and muzzle velocity to create a drop chart/reticle. I also own a Ziess Conquest that is a very nice quality scope, but I have to look at a drop chart that is taped to the rifle stock and then count clicks. With the Huskemaw all you do is range your target and dial in the yardage to your turrets. It's very accurate because you provided real life shooting data from extended ranges. I'm very impressed with the Huskemaw shooting system. I'll be mounting it on a custom 300 RUM that should be done in the next month or so. As with ANY turret system care will be necessary when you shoot in different temperatures and altitudes, as that will affect your POI and therefore you will need to compensate with more or less elevation. For long range hunting purposes I couldn't find a quicker easier system.

If you eat a live toad first thing in the morning, nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day!