TAM

That was really cool. Thanks!

Cha-Ching is right. I wonder how much money will end up in the Democrat coffers for that deed. Did you see BO on the News saying that "almost every American" is in favor of this..... BS!

Even a one year paid in full membership is cheaper than a box of hunting bullets!

Again, thank you Mr. Elms for passing this information along. Is it just me or is G&F trying to pass a law that covers a broad group of people and then telling them, don't worry we're not going to bust all you little guys, we're just going to go after the guides and outfitters? Am I right or just missing something?

Doesn't look to me like he shoved anything in your face. In fact he mentioned in the topic line that his post was about Mormons. If you didn't want to read it you could have eaisly ignored the post.

Mr. Elms, thank you for your response. I think section (D) the way it is currently worded is way to broad. It seems to leave way to many "what if" senarios open for debate. Mr. Elms if I'm understanding you correctly you are saying that G&F is aware that this language is very broad, but it will only be applied to guides and outfitters? If that's the case it kinda sounds like the car salesman saying don't worry... you can trust me! This doesn't have anything to do with the McClendons guiding the elk auction tag summer '07 does it?

There are sure a lot of variables in this senario. I would rather take a 90 incher with a rifle, but with that said, I've also never killed a coues deer with a bow either. Some day I'd like to kill one with a bow just to say I've done it. I wouldn't kill a small one with a bow if I knew a big one was in the area, and I sure wouldn't kill a small one with a bow if I also had a rifle tag for that same year. Kind of a trophy hunter I guess.

I don't think guns are dangerous. Not all by themselves anyway. It's people that are dangerous. Doesn't matter if it's a car, pool, ladder, or a gun. Left alone none of them are dangerous until you add the human factor. Great info Mike!

The red line on Gino's diagram shows exactly what I would do. I like to cover a lot of country when I'm glassing. RR you are right that from your first glassing knob to the far ridge is 1200 yards or so, but it's also only 200 yards or so to some real good stuff there at the bottom as well. I'd sure hate to make a lot of noise or have a shifting wind bust anything hanging out down low in those cuts. To each his own I guess. Great topic!

Not to stir the pot, but it sure sounds like a lot of you like to sit right in the deer's living room when you are glassing for them. I think the two knobs that RR pointed out are where I'd like to end up shooting from, but not glassing from. I think I'd like to glass from same ridge the yellow dot is on just a little higher elevation (north). Perhaps I'd make my initial hike in on the west side of the yellow dot so my noise wouldn't spook anything. Once I was high enough I'd come over the edge to glass all the country to the east. I like to keep a little distance between me and the deer, at least 500-600 yards on out to a mile or so to start with, then work my way in for the shot.

Email sent.

PM sent

Couesnut, PM sent.

I've done that with my boys on several occasions. I've had them literally stepping on top of small fork horns before they find them. Sounds like a great day with the kids.

Nice looking antler!

A freind sent me a copy of this email last night. It goes into some detail on how to get Berger Bullets to group well without jamming them into the lands and still being able to fit them into the magazine. I thought some of you may find it helpful. For what it's worth this method could probably be used for any brand bullet that you are having trouble with. Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle Background VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifles. It can be difficult to get the VLD to group well (poor accuracy). For years we encouraged shooters to use a base of cartridge to end of bearing surface OAL (I will use the term COAL to represent this dimension) which allows the VLD to touch the rifling or to be jammed in the rifling. This provided excellent results for many shooters but there were others who did not achieve top performance with the VLD jammed in their rifling. These shooters were left with the belief that the VLD bullets just won’t shoot in their rifle. Other groups of shooters were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling. Some of these shooters knew that at some point during a target competition they will be asked to remove a live round. With the bullet jammed in the rifling there was a good chance the bullet will stick in the barrel which could result in an action full of powder. This is hard on a shooter during a match. Yet another group of shooters who were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling are those who feed through magazines or have long throats. Magazine length rounds loaded with VLDs could not touch the lands in most rifles (this is the specific reason that for years we said VLD bullets do not work well in a magazine). When a rifle could be single fed but was chambered with a long throat a loaded round that was as long as possible still would not touch the rifling. Until recently, shooters who suffered from these realities were believed to be unable to achieve success with VLD bullets. Admittedly, we would receive the occasional report that a rifle shot very well when jumping the VLD bullets but we discounted these reports as anomalies. It was not until the VLD became very popular as a game hunting bullet that we were then able to learn the truth about getting the VLD bullets to shoot well in a large majority of rifles. After we proved that the Berger VLD bullets are consistently and exceptionally capable of putting game down quickly we started promoting the VLD to hunters. We were nervous at first as we believe the VLD needed to be in the rifling to shoot well and we also knew that most hunters use a magazine and SAMMI chambers. Our ears were wide open as the feedback was received. It was surprising to hear that most shooters described precision results by saying “this is the best my rifle has ever shot.” We scratched our heads about this for awhile until we started getting feedback from hunters who were competition shooters as well. Many were the same guys who were telling us for years that the VLDs shoot great when jumped. Since a much larger number of shooters were using the VLD bullets with a jump we started comparing all the feedback and have discovered the common characteristics in successful reports which gave us the information needed to get VLD working in your rifle. We were able to relay these characteristics to several shooters who were struggling with VLD bullets. Each shooter reported success after applying our recommendation. Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle Solution The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a “sweet spot”. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands. Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won’t be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test. Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included). Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don’t give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot. Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet: 1. .010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds 2. .040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds 3. .080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds 4. .120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match: 1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds 2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds 3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds 4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards). Regards, Eric Stecker Master Bulletsmith

I think Best of the West is one of the best hunting shows on TV. I really like watching that outfitter John Porter hunt sheep. The VLD's are both Deadly and Accurate. Neither of my two rifles that shoot the Bergers have the bullets jammed into the lands. In fact they're way off the lands and both rifles will shoot 100 yard groups in the low .2's

No wonder she hasn't lost her virginity... she's been dating Casey!

Nice work Josh!

Let me see if I understand this correctly. 23 stores are being liquidated (closed), and 15 stores are being sold. So the remaining stores not liquidated or sold will remain Sportsmans Warehouse?

SBD, we can thank Slick Willy for signing NAFTA for a large part of what you're saying! That cost the US a lot of production and labor jobs. It only took about a year and a half for NAFTA to put my Dad's machine shop out of business. Now about 90% of all injection molds are made in Mexico and overseas. I'm still not sure how it was supposed to benifit the US, but I do know for sure that it cost my Dad his livlihood!

What do you mean?

I would like to buy a youth model, single shot, break open rifle in .223, .243, or similar for my boys. Any of you have kids that have out grown one of these and feel like sellig it? My oldest boy is 8 and I'd like to start getting him transitioned from his youth single shot break open .22 rimfire into a centerfire model in .223, .243 or the likes. I really like the break open models simplicity and ease of use for youth guns and would like to keep him with that for another couple years until he graduates to a bolt action. Perhaps someone knows of or has experience with a brand or model of new one that I should take a look at? Thanks, Tim

Mike in all fairness I think there are a few different types of BO voters. There are the uninformed who simply don't have a clue and merely voted for BO because it was the popular thing to do. Unfortunately these people are to stupid to realize that they made a mistake. Next there are the Democrat party line voters who voted for BO simply because he belongs to the same party as they do. Again it's unfortunate, but I don't see many of these people admitting to a mistake. The next group of voters are the swing voters. For the most part these people do look at the issues and do there best to make educated decisions. These are the people that were tired of the Bush administration and could not stand the thought of another "Bush Like" Presidency. In my opinion these are the voters that will begin having doubts and second thoughts about the BO Administration. It may take some time, but if things continue down the path we're on then I think this group of voters has the greatest potential to abandon there support of BO and his leftist agenda. I think these voters may begin feeling betrayed when BO starts going against some of the campaign promises that won there votes. I also think many of these voters were hoping for a President that would do more leading from the center of the isle and not completely abandon the right. Any way you look at it, it's going to be a long and bumpy ride!!!

Way to knock down the Pig-o-linas Gabe!!!!