AZantlerhead

+1 but if i could afford it I would love to be able to give this kind of time and dedication into finding monster bucks on a consistant basis! Boy, you guys are worrying me, allmost sounds like your saying that only Rich, Full time Hunters can get on the Bigguns? I thought this thread was about " How To" factors, Not the reasons "I can't" excuses, come on fellas. What one man can do, another CAN do. Think you can, think you can't, you'r right!! What were the tactics implemented to slay your big ol' avatar Brian? Can it not be done again? Don't forfeit the game, it has not yet started.

I like your reply, I havent used cams yet either but would like to, would save the trouble of trying to judge umm just before shooting(of course tracks,beds,rubs and sheds can do that to a degree) Big Buck sign usually = Big Bucks. Actuall previous sightings would help too, allthough I can do without . And haveing photos of the buck you killed on the hoof throughout the year would just be cool, I'll "Tuff" it out without cams , for now. Those cam pics are too cool, just for the pics!! And now that you mention it, a chain on a tree and my ankle would be good for me too while glassing and waiting in the Holly grounds (bedrooms) of the Big ones I like this thread.........

Good points fellas, I'm no expert. But, I could write a book on what I THINK are Key factors to haveing a BBD, according to last years learning curve. Heres that book summed up, The most important stuff in my mind . -Finding the CORE HOME RANGE (their Bedroom) for the group of big bucks in ANY given area is most important to me. This requires some foot work of course, reading and working the sign (Big Buck Sign). Then patterning the sign, where they bed during the days(usually a particular ridge/mountain, where they water at consistently ( Usually every day), Where they get their acorns( biggest food source in the fall ) this is usually close to the water source. Where they spend their nights(usually flats or large benches/saddles) bordering and encompassing where the does and little bucks hang (deer are social animals). Finding all established routes ( B-Lines & rub/scrape lines) that offer cover/browse while the bucks are moveing from location to location. All within their Core home range! Of course thier range gets bigger dureing the rut but this is key for the early seasons, as most Bucks spend 85% of their lives within a square mile or two, maybe even a 50-100 acre size home range. Like, Duh . -Being in the field from Can't see too Can't see (dark 2 dark), Flashlights & Alarm clocks help with this. Effort, determination, persaverance etc. etc. -Finding a way into your vantage point (pick this after scouting) of choice while disturbing the area as little as possible. This would mean useing the cover of darkness, not walking on game trails, Useing cover scent/ Controlling your scent, Entering as quiet as possible ( no motor vehicles alloud!). useing the cover to be invisible as possible while moveing in day light if you must. etc. etc. - Locate a good glassing/shooting point that allows watching the most key locations within their home range, I.e water/food/beds blah blah blah. ( Mine is overlooking the water and acorns from 1-3 hundred yards and sitting IN their beds, glassing from there, If i miss them glassing they'll likely be on top of me ) - Watch the area ( core home range ) with relentlesness. YOU KNOW THEY ARE THERE, just a matter of time before they are in your glass and then in your sights (stalk closer if neccesary). -Try to conquer your buck fever and make a good shot, If you miss, chamber another round and try to make the next one count, quick! Not an option with my muzzy this year, I'll have to do it in 1 well calculated shot, wich should be done with rifle anyway, oops.. -Finding a shed that proves good genetics in a herd doesn't hurt a bit, it's a dead giveaway of their core home range usually as well. -Hmmm, a little prayer and a spit of luck. Doing all this last year definately put me in the right place at the right time. 4 days of scouting while still hunting. Then three days of waiting/glassing the spot I KNEW the Big Boys would turn up. Pre-season scouting was not an option last or this year, but, this year I KNOW EXACTLY where to look for umm and should get it done before the last morning, this year, with any "luck". Even found another group of bruisers and honey hole as a back up plan. Opening morning as the sun comes up I will be in position and waiting, takeing more time this year to make sure I get the biggest in the group this time . Just my 50. cents, worked last year anyway........Hope it pans out again. Confidence, I have never lacked. Probly a factor as well. BE THE BALL!! Good "luck" everyone , and more importantly, Good HUNTING . Allthough I havent ben on a rut hunt yet, I would guess that you would hunt the Mrs. Coues' and shoot their dillusional/lovesick/ boyfriends, holding out for the Big one to make a slip up, putting the survival of his genes before himself. But the Big ones have survived a few ruts of randomly glassing hunters so don't count on it, or count it out either, every buck has a bad day. Early season though, you will know Exactly where to find the MONSTERS, in their Hidey Holes of course Haveing a game plan and sticking to it......................a good one.

117 7/8

What a Dandy!!! Just a really great lookin bull, Awesome!! Thanks for sharein the story and pics .

This is something that has worked to my advantage before and can work for you if you know where the game will hole up for the day. The " other kind of hunters" can actually push the animals to where you are sometimes, it's all just part of the game, hunting with EVERYONE else. learn the routes and places the animals will use to evade the " other hunters" and you will be sayin" gee, I hope "shorty" and all 10 off his kin come back, that 10 ft tall, dually, big block,with cherry bombs and bull horn makes the rounds this morning and the bucks/bulls will be here for sure!!!", knowing the deer/elk will head back to their bedrooms early and you can be their waiting...... I would suggest packing/ Hikeing 5-10 miles into a roadless, primitive/wilderness area if you don't want to see road hunters , they must wait till 5am to eat at the local diner and tell the waitress what a great white hunter they are before they run the Baja 1000 in the unit you picked . There are a few "wild" units in every state and if you really wanna ditch the guys wearin out their tires instead of boots, you'll have a long hike............. We must all share the country we are working and some will stay on roads(all hours of day and night sometimes) and others will sit on ridges and walk switchbacks till theres no end. There are two kinds of hunters in the world........ Ones that want to actually put in the effort, and ones that simply don't, just like in LIFE. I would actually prefer that the " other hunters" stay in their trucks or on their quads anyway Adapt, Imporovise and Overcome my friend......... I got back to my truck one morning to relocate for the day and just then, at 8 am(lunchtime) this guy drives right through the gate I was parked at and headed into the area I had just walked out of to leave it" untainted for the day". As he drove twenty yards through the gate and waved too me a frigin 10 yr old? kid lifts the Hard Tonneu bed cover he was hideing under(the kind that raise up on struts) and starts " Bow hunting". what some are teaching their kids is simply disgusting.

That's a STUD of a mule deer , congrats. Sounds like a very physical hunt and a hard earned trophy, taken by a highly skilled hunter, probly a tuff one too !!!!!!!!! Way to get it done. Just an awesome P&Y mulie there!! Just wide, tall, symetrical, heavy, long etc. etc. A dandy animal to rep the specie. BTW, ever since you intorduced gray light productions on cwt I've remembered the phrase " gray light" in the we hours of dusk/dawn, every time!!. Definately the most magical time to be out and a great name for your company .

Sounds like a great time you had meating Amanda/ and vise versa, Welcome Samtat2!!!!!!!!! I was thinking of getting a nice set of elk horn sheds on my sleeves(forearms) for my next tat and or a Coues Skull for my left shoulder piece. Have you done any wildlife tattoos, post them up if you have pics? Currently for animals I have a tribal bald eagle and a Celtic Shark. Are there any other members that have any animal tattoos? I'll contact you when I'm ready with the art, What are you chargeing per hour? Do you have a gallery anywhere on the web I can look at? It would be really cool to have a fellow CWT member to do my Coues buck no doubt so let me know ok! Still debaiting if I want anything on my arms bellow my sleeves as I'm still uncertain of my career path........ .

Really cool pics, good too see a blacktail. The one of Mr./Mrs. is my favorite and the little side note of the hunt is great!! They were probly prouder and more in love in that picture than on their wedding day............. Thanks for sharing those

Holly main beams and fifths !!! Great mass and symetry too boot, You have been blessed,Way to get after ummm, good shootin!!!!!! Three arrows to put that Awesome beast to rest huh, all pretty much kill shots, Time and again our quarry shows us just how truly tuff they are. Sounds like an awesome hunt with plenty of fun and action, not to mention good friends. What a Bull!!!!! Can you say P&Y!!!!!! The Bull/Hunter deserve to be noted in history no doubt . Most of us will never down a bull of that caliber or even have an opp too. Rock On, Git r Done!!!!

OMG, that is what Mule deer dreams are made of............... Granted you could probly go on 20 deer hunts for the cost of that one. But you'd be hard pressed to get one like that in 100 hunts, so it's fair. I'd purchase that buck too If I had Millions. Money well spent. Congrats to the Hunter!! How in the heck do you conquer that kind of Buck Fever to make a good shot, let alone get on him!!? Well done!!! Guess you would just look for a silver Juniper with no leaves that walks around, shoot at the middle of the stump. lol

So's I pull onto our roud ( a two track dirt in the sticks) and what do i see. Our familys little Welsh/yorkie mut dog named ( Bear Bait) maybe (coyote bait from now on). a whopin 12 lbs just running the neighbor hood. " Hey, get back to the house"!! he did a 180 to run home parellel to me in the bushes. I thought not much of it.. then...... 30 yds in front of me the biggest Yote i've seen darts across the road with our little dog in his mouth!!!! what the!! who the!!!! No WAY!!!! HOOOOOOOOONNNNNKKKKKKK hey! hey! hey!!!!!!!!!!! The coyote didn't drop him. I bailed out in hot pursuit. The coyote lost me but I kept goin and yellin. At some point though the yote decided our little dog was slowin him down though and dropped him. Last thing i was expecting pulling into the drive . He is limpimg but ok. And tied to the porch.

It's my understanding that it is perfectly LEGAL to carry a sidearm while bowhunting. What I've heard from most is that it used to be Illegal but G&F changed that about 5-10 yrs ago? If your not worried about (bears and lions, javelinas,Feral dogs or hogs, rattlers, etc.etc.) ............well, you should be. I could wright a small novel to back this up from my experiences. And yes there are some Ill minded people about in the wilds on occasion who you may have to defend yourself from....... Granted they do not kill with their Claws and Teeth ,Venom , Rabies, and serious Bacterial infections....... They might go Ape S*#@! on you for busting a dope ring, A satanic ritual, or make sure they've made it across the border unnoticed etc. etc. But I'm totally more worried about the " when animals attack" than the occasional idiot human acting like one. Hopefully someone will chime in associated with G&F or law enforcement to back this up. Or, you can call the G&F office, they are allways more than happy to answer a question first hand...

Back with the other giants you go........... . No i'm not loseing it!!!! lol well maybe a little Coues Crazy

Yup, many guys out there doe hunting year round ya-know. Better put your tag on her quick Tracy!!! lol , the best trophy you'll ever have a chance at!! You got any friends Angie?, of course they must hunt too!!

And a Holly crap again .

Double that, WOW again and again

Wow, just cant stop lookin at this buck!!, so I'll add another reply to keep it on the first page n save myself a click, lol

+1, if anything it's gonna be the Outdoor channell and the likes that spread the knowledge of ditching the old ways of beating the brush and haveing the discipline to sit still long enough in a stand or blind till the golden boy arrives that will increase the big bucks taken and overall success. Thus the need for limited tags. I think hunters like Chuck Adams are the exception who have the old ways down to an absolute Frigin science. And well, He really is the king. Theres not another bowhunter that can even hold a candle to that guy. He's half Mt. Lion i think. . Even The Nuge, Waddell,Bill Jordan, Jackie B., Shockey etc. etc. really on a stand/blind to acheive success with a bow on deer. Low and behold , it works, I gotta try it!! And as I stated as more hunters turn to the new methods more and more(and take bowhunting serious with effort/time/dedication), hunters will return with a bloody arrow instead of tag soup, and more brutes taken knowing they simply gotta wait for the big one . Thus the need for limited archery tags will arrise. The Bab and unit 1 were simply overrun with people knowing there were concentrations of deer there and nice cool temps, thus increaseing the deer sightings and maby shot opps, i dunno? BUT NOT IF YOU USE THE WRONG TACTICS!! people useing the new ways and more successfull tactics( Mt. Lion Chuck don't count) will be the real reason. And God help us all, in a state with a 6% average. we need every advantage of the new ways we can possibly use. But G&F sees it the opposite, I think. For instance trying to ban baiting on deer, Isn't it hard enough in az allready? I guarantee If we as a whole become better bowhunters they will limit the tags to balance it out. Or cut the archery season in half, or close the late season, or due away with general hunts, whatever it takes to keep the balance as they see it, Too retain maximum funding and minimum harvest? I love G&F for what they do for wildlife, and at the same time despise them for keeping the success rates low, sub par, and substandard compared to the rest of the nation. They have a system that works for them, and will change it as needed to retain the maximum funding possible while trying to keep overall success low to increase Herd numbers and slowly but surely make overall hunting in AZ better? They are stuck in between a rock and a hard place while manageing herds and keeping hunters interested enough to buy tags... Overall I love Hunting AZ and G&F probly know what's best for the Wildlife and hunters alike. But I question this at times. Heres an idea G&F, offer a bounty on those dang Mt. Lions!!!!!! Increase deer herds and success rates and tags sold all in one!!

By skyrocket I simply meant it would get better as bowhunters hunt smarter and put in more dedication. If 1 in 5, 20% rates appeared i guess it would qulify for AZ anyway, as "skyrocket", bad word choice on my part. But even that would be three fold the number of deer taken demanding for limited tags or closed late seasons. And yes putting in long hours trying not to fall asleep when game is idle is THE hardest kind of hunting for myself as well( hey you wanna go sheddin?)lol. So I know how you feel about sitting for a mere 4 hours. Specialy when theres sheds to be found while moving. My hats off as well to those (srry bad word choice again) maybe not "lazy" but Patient hunters. As it's my biggest down fall that I'm realizing these days. So some (most people)would consider it hard hunting and torture to hike all day, I consider being patient and sitting still all day hard hunting and torture. Sitting and glassing doesn't bother me, but sitting and waiting does. But is obviously how those "patient" srry not lazy, hunters are stickin it to us hyper active bow hunters. And I can't wait to try spot and stalk bowhunting. My General tag unit would be great for this I think, as well a tree stand in one of the large oaks right over the darn spring I shot my buck last year. I climbed up the tree to see if I could drill him with the rifle from 5 yds, but after hours sitting there realized i couldn't even see through my scope from this close and moved to some boulders overlookin it 220 yds away. . And yes I missed once(steep angle), luckily got another chambered and on it's way fast enough that was true. Srry I should have picked better words, I have the utmost respect for Patient , thus successfull bowhunters. I guess patience would be a factor in a successfull spot and stalk as well........ Thus the challenge at hand. I too see that putting miles under your boots is hard work but hours in the stand is just as hard if not harder for guys like you and me. Sounds like we are agreed as of how too bag one with a bow( just wait ) but just need the self discipline to do it. I watch hunting show after hunting show of guys stickin umm doing just that,and it makes me sick knowing how easy it is for some to do that, and how hard it is for me to just simply, wait. Maybe a bottle of nyquil would help me sit there . Another reason for the increase of big bucks taken is guys just simply not shooting the smaller ones, These are patient guys who would probly tag out anyway(or guided hunters) but you get the point I'm sure. Thanks for correcting my bad word choices Bob and allowing me to better explain. BTW your avatar is a STUD!! Hope to get a muley of that caliber some day, but for now my focus will be on the allmighty Coues and to become deadly on a 6 inch target out to 200yds at wierd angles with my ML, and try to get something similar to last years. Ohh darn, Ive set my goals a bit high, but hey ,if get half that, A 60inch or so I'll be happy. CANT WAIT FOR LATE BOW SEASON TOO!! Ohh this Hunting thing, it is an incureable disease isn't it? Well if theres a cure, I don't want it!!

Cool!! thanks for shareing.

That's a dandy Coues shed!! I'm willing to bet you not only found a shed, but also found the core home range of a group of mature bucks. You were probly right on top of umm. Thanks for shareing the hunt and your consolation prize . You found a great honey hole off the beaten path I'm sure. Mark it on the map with a big X and make a circle encompassing a square mile or two. As for the pesky bugs,I have noticed time and again when the bugs follow you, YOU STINK. And we all know scent is the first line of defense when your prey is elluding you, followed closely by sound and sight. I too learned a great deal this archery season. As well put it in stone how seemingly impossible it is to simply Bump or Jump up game and have a shot opp. The method of hikeing in off the beaten path to find the isolated bedroom of mature bucks is highly respected in my book. Well done! I'm also guessing there was a water source(spring,tank etc. where they ALL must go every-single day within a half mile of that shed., and a central bedding area on the ridge you found the shed, and a central stand of oaks where they feed a couple hours a day near that water source, then B-line trails to the bedding grounds with plenty of browse and cover along the way. All DAILY routines for millenia engraved in their instincs and a walk in the park for game that simply needs to survive day in and day out. I'm jealous you had the opp to hunt with kent man, and I'm sure you did learn much from a seasoned vet like himself.

This is a legitimate worry. As more and more hunters with bow in hand learn to hunt useing #1 Scent control #2 Stands/Blinds #3 hours spent waiting in good spot #4 Spot and stalk with radios and spotter. #5 Rangefinders #6 Super high tech bows and accessories #7 awesome camo #8 Scouting/cams #9 Guides/outfitters etc. etc. I am saying this because obviously it's the way to get it done. As more and more hunters realize they are doing it all wrong(like myself). The success rates will skyrocket. Now, it can be done stillhunting, i.e the old fashioned way (as my father prooved with his forst bowkill in 20 years,Useing 20 yr old gear, a 216 muley, gift from God) but simply put, is a fat chance and the ultimate challenge. Now I MADE myself practice good scent control and sat a tank( a good spot) for about 7 hours for one day this season and allmost got it done. If I would have had a blind or stand I probly would have. Hunting the old fashioned way of hikeing and stinkin like a french whore house, trying to get on one just walking blind, following sign and trying to play the wind and pattern the animals, well- allmost impossible. I had one close call and a few glimpses of a monster in a whole week. Vs. not even a day hunting the new way and allmost getting it done. As more and more hunters wise up and impliment the ways listed above, well. Theres gonna be allot more bloody arrows and deer on the ground. This is allready a pattern I'm seeing this year. If hunters ditch the old ways of basically useing rabbit/quail tactics when bowhunting deer and useing the new ways, there will be more bowkilled deer hittin the dirt(even if it rose to 20%), forceing G&F to regulate the OTC tags. Either as limited OTC first come first serve tags( I hope they do this first). Or completely skipping this step and going to the draw Like the BAB and unit1. Anyone whos not worried about this is, well I strongly disagree, because they are allready doing it! Merely expirimenting, but still. I have learned more in one day this season than all past seasons combined. Also have taken great notice to how others have gottin it done. The deer are smarter these days and hunters are wiseing up too, hunting lazy and smart-instead of hard and dumb. I had My Uncle, Cousin and friend all hunting the Unit 1 archery tag, For three straight weeks!!! I told them of my new epiphany of bow tactics and allmost sealing the deal in 1 day useing them in my unit, but they did not listen, continued simply hikeing around, smelling to high heaven(camp fire,beer,cigarettes,food,sweat) and hopeing to get lucky after jumping umm up. Needless to say they came home with nadda. And so did I because I only used my new tactics for one day out of 8 hunted, but prooved to myself what will work in the future, and what will not. As more and more Hunters like myself graduate to the new ways of bowhunting you will see a spike in the success rates and G&F will be forced to limit the tags in one way or another. This is their worst fear I'm sure. They would love to keep selling 20,000 avg archery tags and keep there 6% success rates. But they will be forced to regulate tags as hunters wise up and get fed up with hikeing around with a bow and experienceing no results, I did find some sheds and came close useing the my old ways. But after the closest wildlife encounters and an allmost archery buck useing the new ways(in ! day!), I'm doing a 180 on bow tactics and I'm sure my Success with bow on deer will do a 180 as well. Now apply this to the shear numbers of OTC tags and those hunters starting to use tactics listed above, yes it will force G&F to regulate archery tags as more and more hunters learn to be better with their bows. The same as the evolution of the General tags and folks learning how to be snipers instead of jumping umm up and hopeing to get a shot off like in the Oregon trail days when deer were as dumb and common as rabbits. I've had ZERO success stillhunting, thus I have seen the light, Stand hunting in a tree or blind and haveing a spottter doing spot and stalk is definatly the way to go, allthough nothing is a given, I can see by others examples and my experience this season it highly increases your odds for success, as hunters continue to demonstrate,(Myself as well in the future). So I will force myself to be lazy in a stand/blind practice scent control and get it done in the future(the most challenging way to hunt for very active person). As more of us doing the stillhunting thing get fed up with bagging zilch or maybe one in 20yrs. you will see more and more OTC tags filled Useing tactics listed, thus the need to regulate or due away with them alltogether to balance things out. So I was one of the many who didn't get it done but probly learned how to get it done in the future. So I'm looking forward to my general hunt and time to be a sniper for a week and use my ML just for kicks. You can bet your keister I'll be out in January useing new bow tactics too! As more Hunters learn to effectively bowhunt there will be an increase in Deer on the ground, and statistically more Monsters on the ground. As we've seen this season.

My thoughts exactly!!!!! There are very few lions taken without hounds, Maybe baiting them with yourself is the way to go? lol. Awesome!!

That is one Serious Muley , Congrats. Ressembles the buck I was after this bow season. 67 yds!!!, so much for Bowhuntings " getting as close as you can"!!!! you are a great archer!!!! Keep at it. Your shineing like the bright morning sun with this one.