StickFlicker

Many of you will likely remember this dove that had a strange death! Also, I was also playing golf a couple years ago and my friend's son hit a ball and it went up through a tree in front of us. Out fell a dead mourning dove! We gave him a "birdie" for the hole.

Great info, especially about the Flintstone Village info. I don't have a 9 tag this year, but good info to know for the future!

Sorry...you are correct. Let that be a lesson for you kids. Don't drink and type!! There is 80 points difference between the two species in B&C and 75 in P&Y. You could add one of these numbers to a Coues score as a "handicap", or your idea of making it a percentage over minimum isn't a bad one either.

There's 20 points difference between Coues typical and mule deer typical in both P&Y and B&C. I have no respect for the SCI records program (no issue with the organization, just their records program), so I have no idea what they do.

Let's face it. All of us that have max points are pretty unlucky in drawing sheep tags! When you get 157 unlucky people together...someone has to get lucky!

After the completion of the drawings for the various species for 2013 hunts, there are 157 people left in the max point pool for bighorn sheep. Here are the max point amounts for each species, along with a listing of how many people hold that point level:

I have not had the time to study the reports for the 2013 drawing yet, but according to the article written in Eastman's Journal's Membership Research Department: I would assume that is likely to hold very close to true in 2013 as well. Most of those with the higher point levels are likely getting a little older, since many of them may have applied for years before there even was a bonus point system (like myself!). When you're starting to get older, the chances of you putting in for bonus points only for a hunt this hard to draw is probably pretty low. Granted, it could easily happen for a person or two because of a conflict that might arise, but most probably are looking at how many years they have left to hunt and how demanding this type of hunt might be. They figure they need all the chances to get drawn that they can so they probably don't take too many years off. Also, the sooner they draw this first sheep tag, the quicker they can start applying and building points to try to draw the second species in their lifetime (if they still feel young enough to bother).

Sooo, you've been back at least a few days! Let's seem some pics and read some stories!!

Since there are now 157 of us according the the report, are we to assume that 11 people have moved up to the top pool since the drawing (assumably by taking the class which I believe would be the only way this could happen)? Eleven seems like a lot, but I don't see what else it could mean? If they are taking 25 from the pool, but putting 11 in the pool....we aren't making much headway. I do agree that within 5-6 years we will be seeing people with one less than max points begin to draw in the "max points" pool.

Heat's right. Yes, it's possible to the same degree that it's possible that a man will someday run a one minute mile or that Kate Upton will call and ask me out on a date! There are hundreds and hundreds of people between 24 points and 21 points. There is absolutely no way on Earth that all of those hundreds of people's choices were filled before they gave out the first 20 permits. I don't need to see a report to know that it just didn't happen, regardless that there is a 1 in 100,000,0000 chance that it could. But with regards to Kate Upton, as Jim Carrey said, "So you're sayin' there's a chance...".

Not to discourage those of you that are just thinking about starting to collect sheep points, but there are 114,500 people that currently have one sheep point!

Not sure why the table didn't show. I'll try it again.

Just like he can't prove you abandoned them, how are you going to prove the Forest Service took them (in order to make an issue of it) unless you catch them in the act?

+2 His mass looks unbelievable for a buck that appears to be exceptionally short. Mass is almost everything in an antelope, so it probably will score decent. It's really hard to tell from these pics, but it does just seem very short.

Sorry I can't help you with your request. And not meaning to poke a dead puppy, but why didn't you just apply by mail a week ago for the leftover tags when there were thousands left? If there were tags at the beginning of today for the hunt you wanted, you would surely have "drawn" them by mail and not have needed to subject yourself to the long line today.

Make sure to get the skull measured for the states bowhunting record book, Bowhunting in Arizona!

I know of a few that have taken both with a bow, according to the states bowhunting record book (Bowhunting in Arizona)! Mark Morris holds the state record for Desert Bighorn with a bow and third place in Rocky Mountain Bighorn. Barry Sopher has the state record Rocky with a bow and has approximately the number 15 Desert.

I'm looking forward to the rest of the story! Terry, it is not legal to bring meat back into the U.S. from Africa, just skins/skulls/horns etc.

Was it killed with a bow? 100" isn't large enough to qualify for either the state or B&C firearms records. Will you actually enter it if it makes the minimum, or do you just want to know what it scores?

Maybe the BP just drew a deer tag in your area and wanted to check out your cams!

Not a drop at my house in north Phoenix today, nor on my entire drive to downtown Phoenix.

Just a few points for clarification. Record books don't disallow you to carry radios or phones. In the case of Pope & Young for example, they do not allow entry of animals taken: "By the use of electronic devices for attracting, locating or pursuing game or guiding the hunter to such game...". It's fine if you carry them for safety, etc. Secondly, cell phones are not allowed in record books anymore than radios, if used in the above-described manner. And for those that record books are bad because a few bad apples either enter things after they have broken the rules or for any other similar reason, that would be the same as anti-hunters condemning all hunters because of poachers. You don't like it when poachers are called hunters (because they are really criminals), so don't criticize record programs by painting them with such a broad brush just because a small percentage of "hunters" use them for a different agenda. As mentioned earlier, records books are a great "record" of the animals taken. They help hunters that wish to pursue larger trophies to reasearch hunting areas that are more likely to produce such trophies, and often show the best times to hunt and many other helpful facts that can make us better hunters. In the case of Arizona's bowhunting record book, Bowhunting in Arizona, they have tables that show the units that produce the most records of each species, the times of days that produce the most records of each species, the average distance of shot, by species, and a great deal of other information. They can be a very valuable tool, although their programs can be misused by some just like anything else.

In the old days, there was a manual drawing of hand written applications for all hunts. It was done publically and everyone could go and watch it if they wanted.

Instead of making a third post on the exact same topic, try actually reading the first topic. The hunter your are talking about chimed in and offered to help you!!

Congratulations Brian. You now have a chance to join the very short list of those that have taken both species in Arizona!