Packer

Cool looking bull, congrats. I love the split fourth on that one side. Wonder what else he had on that one side before he broke it off. Aaron

Thanks guys. I still look at the pictures every day, usually several times. I am looking forward to the day that I can look at it on my wall and relive the experience again and again. Typicalcoues, I would love to have some of those pictures and the video if you can send it. That would be awesome to add to the pictures I have of him. Aaron

Nice bulls, and congrats on tagging out two years in a row. Hopefully you can make it three. Aaron

Nice, if it was me I know I would be excited. Can't wait to hear how the hunt turns out for you and keep us posted of the scouting trips. aaron

Wow, those were some great looking bucks. I too would be interested to know how you did and if you were able to get after them with your bow. Aaron

Congratulations on a great looking bull. That bull will look great as a Euro. and it will save a ton of money. I am still not convinced 100% which way I am going to go with mine either. Aaron

Congratulations on a great looking bull. Also loved the awesome video. I have been trying to get a kill shot on video but something always happens to prevent it. Aaron

Here are a couple pictures of our elk together.

Thanks all, it truely was an amazing hunt. You are probably right about the mount needing a buddy but he already has one other on the wall and I am out of space. As a matter of fact I will probably put my other bull on loan to some friends who have a great spot for it. SirRoyal you are very close to the score on this bull, according to my tape, but I don't know what the actual score would be, and it doesn't really matter. Aaron

Yes, you can possess two tags at the same time. So you don't have to wait until you fill the first tag before getting an additional tag.

I also have been wearing Lowas for just over a year and love them. I have the Ranger GTX boots which have a treking sole, which is stiff enough to backpack yet flexes enough to hike all day in comfort. The next ones up that are more comparable to the hardscrabbles are the Tibets. As much as I love the Rangers I may try them next as they have a true backpacking sole. If you don't like the real stiff sole go with the Rangers and you won't be sorry. Aaron

The survey for the archers is mandatory. While the rifle hunters can report their kills if they want!!!! You can’t call this comparing apples to apples!!! IT’S A FACT THAT IT’S A GUESS AS TO HOW MANY DEER GET HARVESTED BY RIFLE HUNTERS IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA. You are correct there there is a mandatory requirement for archery, but archery hunters also get a non-mandatory questionare to fill out. When making a recommendation this non-mandatory information is what is used so that they are comparing like data. If you want to call this a guess you sure have that right but statistically it is valid data. So I will call this comparing apples to apples. Aaron

I don't know the particulars of this unit so I am only basing my statements on what has been posted. The guidelines call for archery harvest to not exceed 20% of the overall harvest in a unit. If it does exceed this threshold then the first archery opportunity to be lost is the December hunt. As for them raising the harvest on the general hunt; that was probably because the buck:doe ratio was too high and called for increased harvest, or the hunt success was above the 20% threshhold, or both. (for that i am just speculating because I am not looking at the data) Increasing these general tags while getting rid of the dec archery opportunity should shift the overall balance of the harvest so that archers are no longer exceeding the 20% of overall harvest and hopefully they will not have to get rid of half of January as well to make it balanced. These two management decisions are not totally tied to one another and it could be that one was done independantly of the other. As for the numbers used to make these decisions. While it is true that there is a reporting requirement for archery take this is based on the survey forms for archery as well as for rifle so that we are comparing apples to apples. I hope this clears up some of the questions and does not just confuse people further. Aaron

I have heard of one little bear that several people have seen but I have yet to see a track myself. Aaron

52 6/8

You are correct in saying there is a unit 1 youth hunt but it is a draw and not over the counter this year. This was done as a result of the Wallow fire and the hit that turkey in the area took. Hopefully it will be opened back to over the counter in the near future if we get some good years of turkey production to bolster the population. Aaron

Too bad you couldn't connect on a deer but glad to hear you had a good time anyway. Aaron

Sounds like the two that started it will have their day in court in the somewhat near future. As for could the FS have stopped it? I was there the first day and there is no way that could have been done in a manner even close to safe. Things were so dry, hot and windy to go into the bear wallow wilderness after a fire would have been suicide. If anyone knows what the fuel loading and such were on that day they would say the same. The fire had spotted 4 miles before they even had a plane in the air so who knows how far it moved on the ground. I have some pics of the rams that are on my camera but they aren't downloaded yet. I may get them posted before Amanda but I don't know. Aaron

Doug thanks for posting that link. Just so everyone knows the Game and Fish has been working hard with the FS to look at this whole access issue. We have had quite a few meetings and things are definately looking positive for being able to get back into the forest. Some of the flooding concerns are coming to pass as most of the forest roads have already washed out to some extent. For instance where hannagan creek hits the 26 road it has already flooded about to windshield height. Hwy 191 is already undercutting along hannagan creek and may wash out completely with a good storm. The 24 road is about gone from Bear creek around to the 576, at least where all the drainages cross. Anyway, I don't want to post too much at this point as alot of the access we are working on is preliminary and things could change drastically with one good storm. I will be doing a presentation at the AES hunter clinic on the 30th if anyone is interested in some more info. I will hopefully have some more info myself by then and I will have maps and pics that we can go over. All I ask is patience as this thing is ugly now and may get uglier by the end of the monsoon. Aaron

I would think that both Unit 27 or Unit 32 would be a good choice. I have hunted 32 in the past and from what I remember it was even thicker than 27. 27 is where I am familiar with and there are alot of good pockets for whitetail. The spot you are talking about near Bear Mtn can be good for whitetail but doesn't hold the numbers that the area west of the Blue has. Also the spring you are talking about was starting to dry up last year so I would check it out before relying on it this year with as dry as we have been. Shoot me a PM if you want any particulars and I will tell you what I know. In either spot you will be able to get away from the vast majority of hunters, although the stuff to the west will get a few more than the east. Aaron

The reason that Unit 27 closed earlier was to minimize take during the archery season. We felt that was a better option than closing one of the seasons. Since then we have changed it by eliminating the December season and maintaining the same August/September hunt as Unit 1. As for your second question; Take during a closed season is a statute ARS 17-309A11, and take (hunt) in a closed unit is a rule violation (R12-4-302G). Aaron

And when the laws are enforced the LEO's get blamed for not using good judgment and only being out there to write tickets. Wish I knew when to enforce and when to let people violate. packer

Like everyone knows there is always two sides to a story. Many people on here know that I am the wildlife manager for the north part of unit 27 and now the rest of you will. I am the officer that wrote Mr. Jones the citation on that day in 2005. Here is my side of the story, and I am sure many of you will still side with Mr. Jones. I was patrolling in my district when I came upon Jason. Like he said he was in his vehicle. I could see right off that he was in camo, had his bow in the passengers seat and had his release on his hand. When I asked him what he was doing he said that he was deer hunting. Like he said the season had closed two days prior. I was looking for people hunting in the closed unit as we regularily have deer killed out of season. What he didn't mention was that this was the third year that Unit 27 had closed before Unit 1. I then thought that maybe he had made a mistake so I asked if he knew what unit he was in. He said he knew he was in unit 27. I then asked if he knew when the season ended, he stated around the 16th. He also said that he was hunting in the area because he had an elk tag that he was scouting for. Now usually when I encounter an individual with a readily accessable weapon, a release on their hand and saying that they are hunting I treat them like they are hunting. Jason was issued a citation for Take during a closed season. Since he said he was hunting and the definition of take includes pursue I felt it was appropriate. Had I felt that he was trying to be in the correct place no citation would have been issued. He stated that he knew he was in Unit 27. I am sorry that the structure had changed three years prior but how long of a grace period are we supposed to give people when things change? In the end I did make him hold his bow. This was an evidentary picture and one to remind me about the case and what he looked like. Maybe most of you have better memories than me but I opt to take pictures as it is easier for me to remember. Anyway, I don't know if this will change anyone's mind about the situation or just make it worse but that is how it was from my perspective. As for the comments about the other cases that have been handled in this court they were before my time and I have no control on how they were handled. Aaron Hartzell Wildlife Manager Unit 27

Congratulations on the finds. I am going to have to get out soon before everyone beats me to my places. I have just been waiting for the smaller ones to drop too so that I can get more bang for my buck. Aaron

Nice pics. Bet that is a cool place in the summer. Aaron