3darcher2

I’m from over closer to Pittsburgh. PA has done a decent job of improving the whitetail herd over the past 15 years with point restrictions. Lots of 110-140” bucks with 8 or 10 points now compared to 20 years ago and the occasional Booner, and the black bear population has never been stronger. Always a few 700# plus bears and usually an 800#er in there.

So I posted in the copper ammo thread, I'm a long time lurker but new member. Being from PA, getting back to AZ was a goal but it seemed like a long way out still. Then, completely unexpectedly, I wound up drawing an early 12AW rifle tag. This results in some general questions for me. I've read most of the threads that have Kaibab info in them, but I still have questions. Once I found out my card had been hit, I was expecting the 12A archery tag. I found BOHNTR's posts that would basically qualify as Kaibab Archery 101, but I was really surprised to get the early rifle with only one point. While some of that may still apply to early rifle, it seems like a lot won't. If anyone either could care to comment or PM me, I'd really appreciate your collective insight. First, can someone comment on pests and critters? I know there's lions on the Kaibab, but for early rifle, can anyone comment on bugs, snakes, bears (are there any), and other assorted critters and camp raiders? How about the two legged variety, any camp security issues? Overall road conditions? Some of the FS roads in SW CO wouldn't classify as goat trails back here. Second, I am planning on solo car/tent camping. I know there have been some brutally cold days recently during this season, but I'm guessing that tent camping is common? I truck camped with a tent last year in SW CO in late archery elk season (I missed the snow), but that was my first western camping trip in 20+ years. Overall, I think I have all the stuff I would need and I don't have a camper, so tenting is the plan. It seems like there's really nowhere to pack in because of the road permeation, so that's the plan. Thoughts? Anything I might need that I might not normally think of? Third, with the continued drop in tags this year down to 375, pressure should be a little lower. I plan on arriving Tuesday sometime before season and scouting for a couple days. Depending on weather, I've picked out a couple places high to start but I do want to be mobile enough to move if weather or pressure forces it. With all the rain in the past few weeks, I'm assuming that water is probably not going to be a huge factor? Lastly, any other thoughts would be appreciated. It seems like a lot of Arizonans hunt as a group, one with a tag and a few tagalongs/spotters. I won't have that, no takers from here. I'll turn 58 during the hunt. I've actually been to the Kaibab once in 1999, but that was after me and a friend drew 6A archery bull tags and tagged out. We wound up getting OTC Kaibab archery tags a week after the opening of the season. I don't remember much other than we actually hunted in 12AE and I saw about 8 bucks in two days and almost got a shot but it wasn't to be. So I'll just be winging it, trying to get my first mulie. I have a decent rifle, binoculars and an OK spotter. I should have appropriate clothing, GPS, inReach, etc. I realize at my age this might be my one and only return to the Kaibab, and I want to make the most of it and this tag. My trip to CO last year was my only other western trip since AZ in 1999. Better late than never.

Thanks! I even actually tried still hunting up in some of the aspens in the burn. I put out a few groups of deer under 50 yards including 3 bucks I got to within 35 yards of but no shot. I was using some eastern methods for sure. The key is to get them up but then get downwind of them while they are moving and lose track of you. Didn't work the few times I tried it but it did give me a look at some. Just too thick for a shot, needed my lever action in there.

So I wanted to wrap up this thread, I hate a thread with no ending. I wound up getting Covid in September and so did my wife. She actually spent 11 days in the hospital including 6 in ICU (I stayed with her for the last 9) and got out the last week of September. I had decided to not come to the Kaibab as she came home on oxygen and was still weak. Well we have two adult daughters at home, and she said bull-sh&#, you are going. You might never get this tag again. So Tuesday afternoon, 2100 miles later, I landed in Jacob Lake in my maroon Ridgeline with the white cap. Several members were kind enough to offer some advice and one even tried to go along with me for a couple days, but it just didn't work out. I spent a few days driving, scouting, glassing and talking to some other guys. Friday AM found me high in the burn along with what seemed like the other 374 tagholders. I saw some smaller bucks on Friday and a ton of people. Saturday was more of the same, and by Sunday I was pretty discouraged. The burn was producing a lot of hunters but based on the shooting, not many bucks. I had continued to check in with one other AZ hunter I had met on Tuesday and he wound up tagging out Sunday afternoon. With weather on the menu for for Monday night, I was feeling a little discouraged but my new friend offered to help see if we could find a buck on Monday with his friends who were glassing for him. I jumped at the opportunity. We checked out several places, found a few bucks, but still hadn't connected until I got an opportunity with this guy mid afternoon. My first mule deer, and I was tickled! We all went to the Inn for dinner afterward the I spent the night in the tent before heading home Tuesday. I made it home today. A few comments for other nonresidents - first, I way underestimated this hunt. I was too one dimensional, thinking only of the burn. What else was there? While I did see bucks there and up high, there are deer in the whole unit, and my deer did not come from the burn. Without my AZ posse, I would have been completely lost (and probably still there). Second, mule deer are huge. I'm 6'5" and 280. The buck I got was huge bodied, at least 50-75# bigger than me or the biggest IA whitetail I've taken - the pic speaks for itself. Third, as is always preached, be prepared for anything weather-wise. Fourth, bring extra gas cans for sure - unless you want to spend all your time running for gas. I camped close to Jacob Lake to get cell service so I could check in on my wife, and I put on a lot of miles every day. AZ hospitality was really nice - as a NR, I never felt like I was out of place, didn't belong, or was looked down upon. My AZ posse was just so welcoming. Helped me glass, extract, cut up, etc. It was like we were friends who hadn't seen each other in 25 years, not guys who only knew each other for 5 days. In the end, I had a great time, and thanks to the posse and all the CW members who helped me.

Yeah I’m more worried about flats. I’ve been in 12A one time in ‘99 and I only skimmed the surface. I don’t want to be 100 miles from the nearest tire shop with a truck full of flats. I’ve seen other posts about a lot of flats on the Kaibab as well. Better safe than sorry.

I posted a separate thread as I unexpectedly drew a 12AW early rifle tag. This was a great read from front to back, but I am so glad I just picked up a set of LT Toyo Open Countrys today from a buddy that put 1000 miles on them and took them off for something else. I’m mounting them up just for this trip. I hunted a couple goat paths the FS calls roads in CO 71 last year archery elk on a new set of P-metric General summer tires. Neither my tires nor my Ridgeline should have been there based on the looks I got from the guys in the Rubicon and the SxSs. I got lucky I guess, I was all over that unit with no flats. I didn’t feel like tempting fate twice, but it sounds like I might want to bring a trailer with about a dozen spares even with the LT upgrade. 😁 Great write up. Did not see the plot twist at the end!

I have to say of all the stuff I got before I went to CO last year, without a doubt the Crispis and Darn Toughs were the best thing I got. I did try some Meriwool socks too, and they were more "bulky" than the Darn Toughs and maybe warmer, but that Crispi/DT combo was one thing that really lived up to its hype. I had a lightweight Sitka beanie, but for sure, I will have something warm on my head too. I didn't really use the Mountain Jacket much, it was too warm, but the couple times the wind picked up it was nice to have the windstopper. Overall, I managed to dodge the big early afternoon thunderstorms common in that area in September, and I got there just as the last of the big snow was melting. They got like 12" 5 days before I got there but it was almost all gone by the time I got there.

I've been quietly getting prepared here on my end in PA. I realize that the weather conditions can vary widely from 70s and sunshine to below 0 and snow, but what would be most common from a clothing perspective? I archery hunted SW CO during the third week of September at 10-11K and I basically wore a light merino BL with Walmart Wrangler Outdoor pants on the bottom and a Rocky hoodie with a Sitka Mountain Jacket on top and a lightweight puffy up top as needed with Crispi Idaho GTX and Darn Tough Hikers. Obviously being from PA, I have a lot of cold weather but bulky/heavy stand type clothing as well, but that stuff is generally heavier than I'd want to wear. I also had lightweight raingear with me in CO, which basically never got out of the pack. Also, I have an older Dana Design Terraplane pack, but I also usually run a Badlands SuperDay here and I actually used it in CO as well, as I was also truck camping. Assuming that the SuperDay would be fine, and I have the Dana if I do need to pack out. Thoughts on clothing systems and needs?

CK, I’m from NE of Pittsburgh. I did wind up emailing the AZGFD email and they could not have done anything better. I told him what I was looking for and from what I gather, he personally surfed the web, found my projectiles and had them delivered straight to my house. They arrived today. Great job by AZGFD.

No worries Coueser, I wondered the same last year. The Alaskan guide is pretty well ventilated, and like many of the others, I mostly raan it in the evening and then before climbing out of the bag. I was on a legit air mattress and a 0 degree bag, and did OK with temps, but I wasn't real comfy. Stepping up to the cot this time. Truth be told, I did turn it on in the middle of the night a few times because at my age, an occasional pit stop needs to be taken during the night. Like the others, I also ran a portable battery operated CO monitor.

I can’t take credit for that. I’ve heard that term since I was a teenager. Fun fact, I killed my first deer ever in the 80s with a kit built TC Renegade 50 cal flintlock. In PA the traditional ML season is in winter and is flintlock/open sights/patched ball only.

Well I got it as a leftover. There were about 1000 leftovers when I got mine. I made the mistake of waiting for the rut and moon because I read several places that muzzleloader hunters had little to no impact for most archery guys. Well my little corner of 71 was the exception. There were elk around but they were up really high where I was and I just couldn’t get there. They were super skittish because of the muzzleloader guys too. I got close a couple times, but I felt like had I come a week earlier I would have been in them. If I ever return to CO for archery elk I promise I’ll be there before the frontstuffers get there.

My 8 man in CO Unit 71 looking for elk last September.

I definitely will not be taking any 700 yard shots. I'll be trying to get on some longer ranges here and try to stretch my legs some but most of our clubs have 100 and 200 yards and that's it. My club can go to 360 or so but it's only on special occasions. I have learned to be a little more patient over the past few years so hopefully I'll pick the right place to sit down and glass. I've read that a lot of northern NM is known for vandalism/break-ins, especially at trailheads where you might be packed in. I wasn't anticipating and issues in AZ, but I figured I'd ask. I had zero problems in CO last year.

Good to know on the bears and snakes, and the lack of lions. I couldn't find anything about bears so I figured few and far between at most. Just another thing to not have to deal with. I also hate snakes, so that's all good too. I didn't realize there were so many coyotes. Drawing this with one point was a blessing for sure. Really looking forward to it.

It's done really well and I spent 10 days in CO with no issues, but I overflexed in here in PA climbing up a slippery spoil pile in the rain, and it's not gotten all the way back. I need to find a new surgeon now, mine is now out of my network.

I did take a Buddy heater to CO last year, which ran fine at 10K BTW. It was high 20s according to my dash thermometer at night. I know a lot of folks say they don't work well over 8K, but I didn't have any problems. I am planning on bringing a full 20# tank and some singles. I have an 8 man Cabela's Alaskan Guide tent (a little big, but I got a super deal on it) and I just picked up a Teton XL giant cot and pad. Hoping to sleep a little more comfortably this time.

Thanks everyone. A little more about me per Flatlander - I've been to AZ that one time, I found out about it as a PSE dealer. Went to PSE school in Tucson and met a guy who had a shop in northern AZ. He took us out to see some elk after the class and we were hooked. Me and my shop partner started putting in for elk and drew that 6A back then with 2 points. We also shot high level IBO/ASA/NABH 3D back then and knew most of the pros from AZ. They helped us out a little with where to go once we drew, and it was the most fun I'd ever had. We were in bulls up to our eyeballs the whole time and I got a 308" 6x6 on day 5. My partner tagged out 100 yards from me 20 minutes later. Note to anyone reading - NEVER tag two elk at the same time. Fortunately it was not yet 7AM. Even still, by the time we retrieved even with ATVs and got into Camp Verde, dropped off for processing and went to Dennys, it was midnight! Lesson learned. When we picked up the meat, the processor told us he thought we would have gone to the Kaibab. Well we hadn't, but we called home and buzzed up there. The woods were crawling with guys but we did see deer. Everyone said they were skittish a week in and I got drawn but never got a shot on what was a 18-20" 3x3. Then along came kids and my western applications died. A few years ago I started buying points or applying again in AZ, WY, and NM. Last year I decided to go to CO archery down in 71. Super big elevations for me, first night I parked the truck and camped over 10K. Hiking almost straight up with no oxygen was really tough at 56 but I needed to get a hunt in to reset. Frankly, I did a terrible job of hunting, but I figured I needed to get all that bad mistakes out of my system and sort out my truck camping kit. This year looked like a bust - just bought points in WY, was thinking antelope there but with the late winter kill and tag reductions, didn't apply. Nothing again in NM. No AZ elk, and had about a 1% chance on this rifle tag and 2% on the archery, which is what I was planning on going for eventually. When my wife sent me the card hit at work I nearly fell off my chair. Then I figured archery, then fell off again when I found it was early rifle. Other than these two trips, I've not been further west than Iowa (several times) in my hunting career which like most eastern guys centers around whitetails. I've gotten my fair share of bucks over the years but I've always wanted to get back west. I realized about 5 years ago that the time was then to start trying. I'm nursing a bad knee that's had four surgeries, ACL replacement in 1992, and has been bone on bone for a few years. My replacement surgery got postponed last year and may happen this winter. It was OK in CO, but I reinjured in here in PA rifle season. It will be a struggle, but I'll manage on the Kaibab. I'm just an OK rifle shot for an eastern guy. I did put together a rifle for this hunt, a LH 280 AI on a Savage 110. I have to finish load development there. I will not be a 700 yard shooter - 400 yeah, 500 maybe. I'll have to hunt to find somewhere local to try shooting those longer ranges. I have OK optics. Leica 8x42 Trinovids and a 1980s Leupold 20x50 spotter. I've never really done a glassing hunt so that will be something new. Pressure means different things to different people. 375 hunters in 1000 square miles sounds good to me. Here in PA, it's about 15-20 hunters per sq mile. My goals here are be safe, have a good time, and hopefully tag a respectable buck. I realize the chances of drawing one of these tags again at my age is unlikely at best, so I want to do this tag justice.

I did wind up emailing the address on the card that was sent. AZGFD in Flagstaff was very helpful. Hopefully I'll have some projectiles soon. I did realize that I could bag and carry as well. I'll turn 58 during the hunt, and I'll be solo unless I turn up someone that wants to go along, so I'm not really looking to make any extra trips to pack guts. That said, this is a new rifle I just put together for this hunt, and if I can't get it to shoot with any coppers, I'll definitely use something like an NAB and worry about the gutpile when the time comes.

280 AI

Long time lurker. I joined a month ago after being unexpectedly drawn for the 12AW early rifle hunt in the random this year, and I've read a lot on here. I got my tag and lead free card today, but I'm confused. Several places it says I can get ammo or bullets. I'd prefer to reload, but I can't figure where there is an option for projectiles from the list in the letter. Also, I'm from PA, so it's not like I can pop into the Flagstaff office and figure things out. Before I email or call the number, does anyone have any insight into how to try to snag some bullets? I know everything is in short supply, but I figure I'd try. Also, there are a few Sportsman's Warehouses within an hour or so from me. Is the offer only at AZ SW locations or has anyone had success using the card out of state?