Crazymonkey

We do not have a primitive weapon hunt .its a muzzleloader hunt .I don't wish to see any season end but I also don't like when people complain about fairness with out trying to do what they say is not fair.I don't care what your method may be if your proficient and can make a ethical kill .I can tell you first hand money is no substitute for time and skill .I'm new to long range shooting and I thought good gun good glass no problem.its way harder than that its load development and trigger control and then you have the environment .remember all we have as hunters gives us an advantage and still we come home empty

Technology has helped with good ethics and shot placement.your scoped rifle has modern tec.its scoped .skill is skill it takes a lot of time money and practice to utilize the tec and have the skills to shoot far the tv shows make it look easy .I can assure you a lot goes into it .every ounce of equipment we use gives us an advantage until you have an understanding of how it works and have tried to use it I don't think anyone should have a comment on what's fair.

What gets me is the crying about an unfair advantage.and the Colorado muzzleloader regs .if you read the regs it's listed as a primitive weapon hunt ours is not its listed as a muzzleloader hunt .most are hunting with muzzleloaders from cva knight and traditions the guns are good to 2 maybe 3 hundred if you dare .the assumption that guys are running super high dollar guns and glass is unfounded .the gunworks muzzy is 11thousand dollars I'm sure some will spend that but most will not .the common gripe is its smokeless and again its not legal to run during muzzy hunts .have you or any one who complains about it not being fair even tried to shoot what you see as not fair .I've offered to let some give it a try it takes unreal skill and luck .the muzzy is available for you to give it a try 700 yds on target the size of the game you wish to take.I've got a better than most will run paramount pro with Nightforce glass and a break .not a common muzzy for most hunters .I say if you think its easy try and hit a target that far

If you only knew how many animals get shot poorly during the hunts you wish we had it might change your perspective.I guy shoots at a elk in Colorado with a muzzleloader no scope no sabot and so on per the regs at say 100 yards and makes a bad hit because he is regulated to no scope .the animals will die but slowly and probably not be recovered.he will probably just keep on hunting .you are looking at it from the wrong angle its about making clean ethical shots and yes scopes help do that.if you truly want to remove scopes I say what about your rifle scope or your bow sights how about a compound bow it gives you an advantage where would you stop.you don't get that all the things we use to hunt including our heads give us an advantage to some degree.if you wish to take from one what about all the other stuff that gives the perspective of having given an advantage camo sent free range finders GPS binos ground blinds tree stands and so on .you need to get off you high horse and look at how you hunt and take all of the things that you use to make you a better hunter and throw them in the trash .then you can truly preach about not having an advantage .for most its about making a clean 1 shot kill and not having the animal suffer needlessly .sounds like you should give all the things you say are unfair a try and see how much skill it takes .its easy to cry about stuff if you have no clue about it.

I've only shot a bull at about 80 yards with a cva wolf and a 338 powerbelt and 150 gr pyrodex one shot dead elk not even a step . the Powerbelt seems to mushroom or just come apart my buddy shot a 50 elr Powerbelt outa his optima and it pealed the copper jacket on entry .I'm looking for a no sabot round to run in my paramount pro 45 cal

If they run smokeless during a muzzleloader hunt its illegal and they should by all means be charged with illegal take and methods.blackhorn 209 is a common sub for true black powder and is not smokeless.again your looking at a pro shooter not your everyday hunter -shooter. I'd be more than happy to let you have a go at making a 5-to 7 hundred yard shot in the kill zone of a animal size target.there is a picture of my muzzleloader at the start of the post .

Funny its shooting bh209 not smokeless powder and smokeless powder is not legal in a muzzleloader in this state it clearly states black powder or a substitute for black powder.The gun cost like 5 or 6 grand and was shot by a pro shooter way different than the average guy and his gun .if you wish look it up most are shooting 45 cal powerbelt and even tho it could shoot farther they don't recommend it as the energy on target is way to low for proper bullet expansion they only shoot targets that far

Anybody have a 500 yard muzzleloader? I've got a paramount pro with good Nightforce glass and don't think you understand the gun or the amount of skill it would take to shoot one 500 yds .its like throwing a chunk of lead thru the air and hoping to hit anything .the wind and and change in powder or any other variables will make it extremely difficult.there are a very small group of very skilled people who could do this most don't have the skill or equipment to do so .

More like fat Karen without a jelly donut.SO LETS GET THIS STRAIGHT I CAN'T HUNT PIGS WITH THE RPG I GOT AT TRADER JOE'S .

Watched Keith warren outdoors hunt a giraffe with a 50 big .I think that's the same show on the audad

If its legal to use its a matter of ethics and hunting preference .IF we as hunters can't stop with the b.s on what's legal and what's marginal it will only give the tree huggers more to drive a wedge into things ultimately putting an end to most hunting for ourselves and others.DO I see a problem with the ar pistol maybe if its shouldered .have I hunted with my ar 15 absolutely mine is a rifle and used during rifle only seasons.look we can all find something we don't like about how others hunt or what methods they use we may not like it but it's there choice and its legal.I will say if you do shoulder your at pistol it just gives those who don't wish to see them used more reason to complain about them .

Gotcha on powder first .I would've thought changing seating depth would have an effect on pressure but then I read an article about it and they were saying you can run in quite a bit before it has any effect.it goes against logic but works .you'd think as you move in you decrease case capacity and should see an increase but they say it takes like .250 or so before it matters.THANK YOU GUYS FOR ALL YOU HELP !!hopefully I can get the jeep fixed and get out to shoot

Well ammo is all loaded to run another test and my jeep oil pump is throwing a fit .its a 2012 and keeps getting oil pump codes so no range day for me .looks like ill be crawling under to fix as the stealership is 2700 to fix a 200 dollar part that should only take 3 or 4 hrs.thanks lance I'm looking into hammer bullets I'm going to call and see what they recommend for my setup.O Don't buy a jeep its the most labor intensive car I've ever owned its always got some kinda code on .I'm going back to Toyota

I have 10x50 leupold binos not super expensive I think I paid 500 bucks new .I can tell you if you can get the best you can afford it makes a difference.I've run mine and then looked thru swarovski and you loose a lot in detail and clarity.I'm a firm believer in a good spotting scope and you can find vortex fairly cheap .it works real good if they don't make the model any more they will upgrade to current design .I had a older skyline and it broke and sent it in and got a New viper hd in return. Payed 200 bucks for used skyline and got a 8-900 scope under warranty no cost .I run the binos for location and spotter to make sure it's worth the effort to go after

I got 2 only 2 left

After several posts and a few hundred bucks in lapua brass its gonna be a very careful full size and a aneal on the necks every other firing to keep the necks from holding a set and not giving a constant repeated neck tension

Sign me up pigs with aks and rpgs.

Congrats.your little guy will remember this hunt .

Please don't get cocky like this guy .most here are good guys and tho they may not walk you into there spots they will offer soild info.its easy to spot early elk as they begin the rut its also why the kids get first crack at them.Its to get them on animals and get them hooked.glass and scout and repeat in New spots have as many as you can they will move a lot between the time you hunt

What the poor guy don't get is those elk he's seeing won't be there when it comes time to hunt .I've run camera's in that unit for months at a time when I first started hunting.thought I had it figured out .pulled cards the day before hunt and like clockwork elk 3 Times a day same as always.I didn't see another elk in the remote area again we went about 15 miles down the road and I shot my first cow elk on the last day.a few years and some time in the woods will show that the advice was solid

.In all seriousness get checked !!! Its easy and don't cost much more than a office visit.I'm 48 and can tell you it gets real expensive to go thru all the ct scans MRI and nuke scans not to mention all the blood tests if they think something is wrong .lucky for me its not cancer but just real whacky blood test levels that the doc's can't figure out. Good people die every day for not getting tested .its no joke.

Best wishes.Makes you guys think(wonder where my docs hands have been today?)try and remember to look at your docs hands and go with the one with small hands and no sausage fingers.!!!!

Weather can be an issue there is always the chance of rain or snow on the late hunts I've got a trailer but you can tent if you wish we usually find a camp close to where we hunt and hike or take the sxs in way before first light.it was 17 degrees last year on my 6a muzzy hunt .trailer helped but froze the water tanks so no running water for days.good optics and a tripod help 10x42 or 10x50 or larger binos or a good spotting scope help.the elk will be pressured hard from all the early hunts .as stated lots of small or broken off racks .just remember you can't eat the horns !!look for the spots way back in food and water and less people.I'd spend your $ on more trips to scout and look than on guides.pick a grid and look .get some flatline maps or the GPS maps .the elk will light up first light you can usually see there hides shine in the sun and give there location away

There is a lot to be learned from all those sources.You get a lot of info from just reading and listening.I'd agree people don't like to give up info on spots it's always going to be an issue.I've done it and took my buddies son into a spot way back in and the next year there was 4 guys he new that had been in and hunted there .shot a deer I'd watched for over a year .what pissed me off was the fact they thru the meat in a dirty cooler and then complained about it tasting like soap and thru it out.SO RULE OF THUMB IF YOU PLAN ON SHARING INFO REMEMBER THEY CAN AND WILL USUALLY DO THE SAME.YOUR LITTLE HIDDEN GEM WON'T BE FOR LONG.

Graf&sons has some super pricey