Crazymonkey

It was the only one I could find listed and figured it might be worth a try .that's a pretty old gun .I've got a 16 gauge Mossberg 190 bolt shotgun that pre dates serial # I've not shot yet.ill keep looking there's bound to be one out there.

Buddy there is one on e bay $ 65 bucks and a few to ship .

Way cool .that's a way better design than the p.o.s. I bought on line .they used conduit for the frame.in a a frame style configuration and every time you hit the Damm plate it would swing and fall over .just about piss you off enough to make you want to shoot the shoot out of it and throw it in the trash.thanks for some ideas to make it better.

I was meaning work and the wife's to do list.I might be a little delirious I've been on 76 plus hour work week for about 6 months and just came in from being under my jeep to replace the oil pump.it sucks that all my hunting toys are so Damm expensive

I'd have to be one of the 40 people out there to see it happening .its not all about the kill sometimes it's about getting away from it all and just enjoying the people and the great things you see in the woods

They do generate a ton of money that's for sure.I agree its always good funnies to see the pics with all the different guides logos .I wish they would just do a random draw and give the tags to the az rez hunters that the animals belong to.they raise a ton of money on everything else.no raffles just a random draw 😁

The wife and I went to the elk banquet a few years back my hunting buddy is a member and the guy at the table bought the tag .money does buy just about everything it sucked to find out it was rigged and they already had agreed to a price

I hope you guys are right on the troll thing.

This is for all hunters ! The animals we hunt deserve the respect and admiration we should be giving them .take the time to make good shots and do the right thing for the animal .you would not want to be on the other end of your poor shot.they deserve better!!

Sounds like a lot of the basics were missed.1 never change anything before a hunt if you've already got it shooting.2 practice and practice .3 set limits.elk are big ruff animals if there hit bad they will usually stop and lay down to die if not pushed.your blood and arrow would tell you this biased on color and smell .elk hit bad need a lot of time 8 or more hours to die if you push them they move and you can get where there is no blood to trail.you owe it to the animal you hunt to learn all you can and put them down quickly. Poor hits and no blood requires grid search patterns and a day or 2 of time

No your limits and stick to them .I can't say I haven't lost an animal it happens to all hunters. But Damm 4 elk .I'm all about not bashing those for hunting with what's legal but you might need to change some things .I found that a rage in the shoulder on a deer is not a good thing and went to fixed blade and learned that it's important to make good shots no matter what your weapon of choice.For me it wasn't about yardage my shot was only 18 yds and the deer was broadside it was learning where to hit them.4 elk on any hunt is poor skills or just poor ethics and not caring about the game you hunt .it would get you kicked off the app to hunt in our group .

Sent u a pm .bass pro mesa had 2 after I got some Saturday

It's the explaining to the wife why you are hunting in your 75000 truck and need several rifles at 7 to 8 k per gun that make you a true hunter.a hunter of words to explain its not about need its about wants and still get away with it.

Do you think they had your scoped rifle your rangefinder your GPS ground blind and camo. Bows with sights crossbows or any other thing that you use to gain an advantage in mind .since the dawn of time the first hunters and all hunters use something to gain an advantage over what ever we hunt.I say if you cry about not fair get rid of all the stuff you use to hunt and then give it a try just you and the animal.that would be truly fair.no camo gun range finders bow and so on .just you and your prey.if you can't do that then you probably have no place to complain about others and what's fair.

We do not have a primitive weapon hunt .its a muzzleloader hunt .I don't wish to see any season end but I also don't like when people complain about fairness with out trying to do what they say is not fair.I don't care what your method may be if your proficient and can make a ethical kill .I can tell you first hand money is no substitute for time and skill .I'm new to long range shooting and I thought good gun good glass no problem.its way harder than that its load development and trigger control and then you have the environment .remember all we have as hunters gives us an advantage and still we come home empty

Technology has helped with good ethics and shot placement.your scoped rifle has modern tec.its scoped .skill is skill it takes a lot of time money and practice to utilize the tec and have the skills to shoot far the tv shows make it look easy .I can assure you a lot goes into it .every ounce of equipment we use gives us an advantage until you have an understanding of how it works and have tried to use it I don't think anyone should have a comment on what's fair.

What gets me is the crying about an unfair advantage.and the Colorado muzzleloader regs .if you read the regs it's listed as a primitive weapon hunt ours is not its listed as a muzzleloader hunt .most are hunting with muzzleloaders from cva knight and traditions the guns are good to 2 maybe 3 hundred if you dare .the assumption that guys are running super high dollar guns and glass is unfounded .the gunworks muzzy is 11thousand dollars I'm sure some will spend that but most will not .the common gripe is its smokeless and again its not legal to run during muzzy hunts .have you or any one who complains about it not being fair even tried to shoot what you see as not fair .I've offered to let some give it a try it takes unreal skill and luck .the muzzy is available for you to give it a try 700 yds on target the size of the game you wish to take.I've got a better than most will run paramount pro with Nightforce glass and a break .not a common muzzy for most hunters .I say if you think its easy try and hit a target that far

If you only knew how many animals get shot poorly during the hunts you wish we had it might change your perspective.I guy shoots at a elk in Colorado with a muzzleloader no scope no sabot and so on per the regs at say 100 yards and makes a bad hit because he is regulated to no scope .the animals will die but slowly and probably not be recovered.he will probably just keep on hunting .you are looking at it from the wrong angle its about making clean ethical shots and yes scopes help do that.if you truly want to remove scopes I say what about your rifle scope or your bow sights how about a compound bow it gives you an advantage where would you stop.you don't get that all the things we use to hunt including our heads give us an advantage to some degree.if you wish to take from one what about all the other stuff that gives the perspective of having given an advantage camo sent free range finders GPS binos ground blinds tree stands and so on .you need to get off you high horse and look at how you hunt and take all of the things that you use to make you a better hunter and throw them in the trash .then you can truly preach about not having an advantage .for most its about making a clean 1 shot kill and not having the animal suffer needlessly .sounds like you should give all the things you say are unfair a try and see how much skill it takes .its easy to cry about stuff if you have no clue about it.

I've only shot a bull at about 80 yards with a cva wolf and a 338 powerbelt and 150 gr pyrodex one shot dead elk not even a step . the Powerbelt seems to mushroom or just come apart my buddy shot a 50 elr Powerbelt outa his optima and it pealed the copper jacket on entry .I'm looking for a no sabot round to run in my paramount pro 45 cal

If they run smokeless during a muzzleloader hunt its illegal and they should by all means be charged with illegal take and methods.blackhorn 209 is a common sub for true black powder and is not smokeless.again your looking at a pro shooter not your everyday hunter -shooter. I'd be more than happy to let you have a go at making a 5-to 7 hundred yard shot in the kill zone of a animal size target.there is a picture of my muzzleloader at the start of the post .

Funny its shooting bh209 not smokeless powder and smokeless powder is not legal in a muzzleloader in this state it clearly states black powder or a substitute for black powder.The gun cost like 5 or 6 grand and was shot by a pro shooter way different than the average guy and his gun .if you wish look it up most are shooting 45 cal powerbelt and even tho it could shoot farther they don't recommend it as the energy on target is way to low for proper bullet expansion they only shoot targets that far

Anybody have a 500 yard muzzleloader? I've got a paramount pro with good Nightforce glass and don't think you understand the gun or the amount of skill it would take to shoot one 500 yds .its like throwing a chunk of lead thru the air and hoping to hit anything .the wind and and change in powder or any other variables will make it extremely difficult.there are a very small group of very skilled people who could do this most don't have the skill or equipment to do so .

More like fat Karen without a jelly donut.SO LETS GET THIS STRAIGHT I CAN'T HUNT PIGS WITH THE RPG I GOT AT TRADER JOE'S .

Watched Keith warren outdoors hunt a giraffe with a 50 big .I think that's the same show on the audad

If its legal to use its a matter of ethics and hunting preference .IF we as hunters can't stop with the b.s on what's legal and what's marginal it will only give the tree huggers more to drive a wedge into things ultimately putting an end to most hunting for ourselves and others.DO I see a problem with the ar pistol maybe if its shouldered .have I hunted with my ar 15 absolutely mine is a rifle and used during rifle only seasons.look we can all find something we don't like about how others hunt or what methods they use we may not like it but it's there choice and its legal.I will say if you do shoulder your at pistol it just gives those who don't wish to see them used more reason to complain about them .