Diamondbackaz

Guide, why did you wait to the last minute to do this??

The Patagonia Mountains are very popular, but deer can be also found in the rolling hills and flats on both sides of the range. There are lots of roads into the area and I would suggest getting a map and explore the area before the season. I have a "South Patagonia Off Highway vehicle Guide" that shows a lot of the roads. I can mail it to you if you email me your address.

Why is everyone talking about bonus points?? Talking about earning bonus points is talking about not getting drawn. That's sacrilege//

Actually the lion was killed near general hitchcock campground in upper Bear Canyon. It probably was one of the delinquent lions that they were looking for earlier. It was killed with a shotgun.

I agree with Red Rabbit//

Looking at the draw odds for last year in the back of the regs, the draw odds for the November hunts are down to 75%. It use to be in the 90% to 100% range which made it a good 2nd choice to a first choice December. I have never been denied a whitetail tag but I am sweating it now. May have to consider a October second choice to get a high chance of draw. What a bummer//

Guide, I don't believe thats the way it works. The way I understand the process, each application is given a draw number in the drawing process. When the computer gets to your number, it looks at your 1st choice, if that hunt is full, then it goes to your 2nd choice to see if there are openings. If there is, then you get a tag for the 2nd chioce. You get the tag despite the fact that another application that has a higher draw number had put that hunt down for a 1st choice. If the 2nd choice hunt is full too, then your last three choices will be looked at after all of the applications have been processed. Basically the last 3 choices are for the left overs. So when you select your last three choices, select hunts that have less 1st and 2nd applicants that there are permits. Also, many hunters don't hunt because they make stupid mistakes on their application. The application is given the number, not the hunter. I have felt that putting in as an individual has a better chance when the hunts get close to filling. Otherwise if there are two permits left, and the next application up has four hunters on it, the application would get tossed back and go to the next one with one or two hunters on it.

Access has always been an issue with this mountain range. It is important that you and everyone else effected write a letter to the safford ranger district. The Forest has a cabin in there so they probably already working on the issue.

One of my shorthairs was bit right on top of the snout in my back yard. It was an $800 vet bill with the anti venom. The dog started to get better in the matter of minutes once the IV started flowing. It boils down to how much your dog is worth to you because it is a crap shoot if you don't do the anti venom. The vet recomended it because it was a bad bite in a bad location. One of my cats got bit in the face and got it by one fang. She pulled through without the anti venom. The vet made two good calls.

I wouldn't even consider it, or a 223. I have had deer run a couple of hundred feet with a heart and lung shot with a 243 before they fell.

I would not leave a vehicle unattended for any extended period of time. Have someone drop you off and come back to pick you up if you back pack camp. I hunt 36B all the time and I avoid camping in an area with a high traffic of illegals. Stay away from trails, wash beds, and areas trashed with garbage.

AFB, I got your E-mail, Did you get my reply?

Bill, I didn't relize that there were that many lions on that side of the mountain although it would make since though since there is plenty of deer and cover. You probably would'nt recognze the area since the fire. If you remember how thick the oak was on top of Oracle Ridge and Rice Peak where it was so thick that you would have a difficult time seeing through the trees on each side of the road, well thats all gone. The trees have been reduced to stubs in the ground and Rice Peak and that whole side of the Canada Del Oro is moonscape. Driving up to the top of Rice Peak is a different experience now. Charouleua road going through the streambed has been changed from the floods. The Gap gets a lot of people now especially on the weekends. I use to drive up to Burn tank and I would always see deer up there even from a vehicle. I hope your hospital stay wasn't serious and I envy you with that Greer cabin. My parents lost their cabin up on Mt. Lemmon to the fire. They bought the lot back in 68 when I was 5 years and they were up there every warm weekend for the past ten years. Are you still hunting Deer? Take care Ray//

The ad at http://www.adlaz.org/AZad4-11quark4.pdf does not say stop lion hunting , but it says to regulate it to certain times with limits. I am certainly not advocating the animal defense league here, but it is important to know where they actually stand. Now it is true that they may be using this as a first step as an out right ban. I agree you EC, stand up and let your position be heard, as many hunters don't become politically active until it's to late//

Well lets put it this way, for coues, I think you have to be a person that has to be healthy and have the physical capabilities to hike in rugged country. For Eastern whitetail you can drive up to your treestand and feeder, get your fatt butt up the ladder, and you're in business. I'm not rich, but I only hunt once a year in my home state for deer and elk. It is often said that hunting is a rich mans sport and there is a lot of truth to that. If I were rich, I would have the time off and the ability to spend more money to hunt many species in many different states. This can be said of any hobby or sport. I am happy that I haven't been turned down for a coues tag yet, and I have been able to hunt every year that I have put in. I personally feel the best wealth a person really does have is to have the health to get out and hunt.

Yes, Red Rabbit is correct, the recomendations are what goes before the commision for approval to what will then become the regs. I don't expect any changes in the recomendations during the meeting, since the approval for the most part is a procedural thing. The way I received the recomendations in the mail is because I submmited a public comment during the public comment period. The recomendations include rebuttals to comments that were submitted. Only 6 hunts got an increase in permits. They are: unit32oct +25 (makes up for -25 for nov), unit22dec +50, unit23dec +75, unit24Adec +25, unit36Coct +50, and unit36Cnov +50. Thats a net increase in 250 permits from last year. There was someone out there putting in for the unit 32 mule deer hunt? Both unit 32 mule deer hunts lost 75 permits each for a loss of 150.

I just received the hunt recomendations for this falls hunt in the mail. Almost all of the permit numbers for whitetail have remained the same as last year and some units got increases. Only the unit 32 November hunt lost 25 permits to be offered. Mule deer did take some hits on numbers in some units.//

Looking at the AZ site http://www.azgfd.com/inside_azgfd/edits/em...openings.html#w , this should give some info. As treestandsman has been trying to say, these type of jobs are hard to get. They probably get 700 applicants for 4 openings. Another thing you will have to look at, the openings they do have are usually for units and areas that are in places in the state that may not be a desirable place to live. If you have a passion for it, go for it. I decided against it when I went through college simply because of the lack of employment opportunities. One thing that I suggest is to talk to someone in the department and see if you can do some job shadowing. I always feel that getting to know people in the department can open doors for you. And they can get to know you. You can do this by volunteering. This demonstrates to them a positive attitude which is the number one thing that people look for in a potential canadate. Forest Service sometimes has opportunities, but with them, you have to be willing to move around the country to move up the ladder. They also have coop programs that you can get into while you go to school. Then you have a job waiting for you when you get out. My $0.02

If I am camping out, I will hunt the morning, come back around noon or so, and go back out in the afternoon. I have taken two deer and an elk in the late afternoon, I don't like having to haul animal in the dark in treacherous country. So now when I hunt afternoons, I will stake out a tank or something thats close to a road. When I day hunt, I leave the house about 5:00 am, hunt til 2:00 pm and come back home. I have killed at least six deer this way. Shoot em, drag em, throw it in the trunk, and go home.

I see your doing Mule deer. Do that for first choice, then put in for the November WT for your second choice and I bet you will have a tag.//

Looking at the draw odds in the back of the regs, 32 is not off base for whitetail with 36B which is what I always put in for. I always put in for: 1st. 36BDec, 2nd. 36BNov, 36BOct, and 4th and 5th in other areas for Oct. I have always have gotten for my 1st or 2nd choice. The way I understand the process, each application is given a draw number in the drawing process. When the computer gets to your number, it looks at your 1st choice, if that hunt is full, then it goes to your 2nd choice to see if there are openings. If there is, then you get a tag for the 2nd chioce. You get the tag despite the fact that another application that has a higher draw number had put that hunt down for a 1st choice. If the 2nd choice hunt is full too, then your last three choices will be looked at after all of the applications have been processed. Basically the last 3 choices are for the left overs. So when you select your last three choices, select hunts that have less 1st and 2nd applicants that there are permits. Also, many hunters don't hunt because they make stupid mistakes on their application.

GMM, I don't understand why you are not getting drawn for anything for awhile. Are you putting in for a December hunt for your your 1st and 2nd choices? If you are, your chance of getting drawn is slim. There is a way of applying which will give you at least some kind of hunt. I have never been denied a white tail tag by the drawing.

Typical, I think that they prettier//

Well Bill I fiqured it was you. Both my father and I miss your column, especially since they now have a politically correct outdoors page that's not worth opening up anymore. You talked with me one time on the phone when I worked with the Forest Service. You called me to get some information on Charouleau Gap to write a story on it back in 1991 or so. A couple of days after the article came out, despite the warning you put in the story about the deep water spot, some guy went back in there with a brand new Toyota Fourrunner and sucked water into his engine and hydra locked it. Since he saw my name in your article, he called me up to get some help. I went in there with some people from the Roughriders to winch him up a hill so and towed out of there. Fourwheelers always help each other out. Glad to hear you are doing well and hope you can add some knowledge to this forum. Diamondbackaz

Mr.Quimby, nice to hear from you again, the Citizen hasn't been the same since you left, if you are the one I think you are//.