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Merry Christmas from the Shellenbergers!

JAMARO......YOU'RE RIGHT THAT IS A GREAT DEAL....EVEN IF THEY AREAN'T CASEY'S AND THEY ARE USED! GLAD TO SEE NO ONE'S TRYING TO TELL CASEY HE'S RIPPING ANYONE OFF AND THAT YOU CAN BUY A NEW PAIR WITH A WARRANTY FOR THAT MUCH.....especially you Jamaro

Let me add the reply I get when I try to sell a NICE set of glass DUDE YOUR SMOKING CRACK!!! I CAN GET THOSE BRAND NEW FOR $825......PLUS THE NEW ONE WILL COME WITH A WARRANTY! Aside from the smart a$$ comments......that is actually a great deal!

The best one is the Swarovski Laser Ranger finder......it's also $900.....but it is the BEST!!!

Mike......dangit......you were supposed to get that nice buck this year!!! I hope you get back up and at em' soon.....especially your back!!!

I SUGGEST THAT ALL OF US GET OFF OUR A$$' AND GET TO THE MEETINGS. THIS WAY WE CAN ASK ALL THE QUESTIONS WE WANT IN AN EFFORT BROADEN OUR UNDERSTANDING AND GIVE INPUT!!

somebody make me an offer.....I payed $495 for the rifle and $180 for the brake......of course the lapping and trigger work were above and beyond that......this gun is "as new" Thanks

Either you got someone shooting and leaving game or there is definitely a lion......kill the SOB when you see them will ya? Great pic

How and where can I get one? I've seen them just can't find out how to get one Scott

Mountainman......welcome to CW.com and thanks for you input.....but whatever it is your smokin' there in the heart of the big apple you better lay off the stuff. Mountain lions breeding with African Lions??? The ones you've killed have had miniature man?? These manes, if left untrimmed, will grow quite long and the mountain lion of the Americas will start to resemble the distant African Lion?? YEAH.....IT MUST BE NAPOLEAN

The more this goes on I'm not actually sure how I feel about it I do know one thing for sure.....WE CANNOT ALLOW OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS OR GOVERMENT to be the means of justifying whats ethical or not, whether it be in Alaska or Arizona. We all know that they (goverment officials) don't always and probably rarely do the right thing. So whether it be Alaska or Arizona is it a double standard? YES! And when it comes right down to it...... what is the difference between Alaska and Arizona? Is it the terrain? Is it the vastness of the country? Is it the ruggedness? I doubt there are very few people who actually hunt from a chute plane, a helicopter, an airplane etc......and this is not so much the dicussion of this thread. I believe the real question is: IS IT ETHICAL TO USE A CHUTE PLANE OR OTHER MEANS TO SCOUT FOR BIG GAME? My initial reaction is to say yes......WHY? Because it would be cool to fly around ans find drainages, water sources, country and awesome bucks and other big game that you would have NEVER SEEN before, then go to the general area where they are and harvest a whopper......although we hunt for meat.....we are also hunting for a good size rack. Wouldn't that be awesome? HECK YES NOW HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF EVERYONE (YES EVERYONE....WHICH IS UNREALISTIC) DID THIS????? As a sportsman not only do I like to be able to hunt and fish but I like to be able to see the animals.....do I have feelings and cares about the animals we hunt? YES When I harvest an animal do I get emotional? YES Do I give thanks to my Heavenly Father for allowing me to see and harvest such a majestic creation? YES Does it bring a tear to my eye? VERY OFTEN!!!!! As sportsmen we should not only have concerns about preserving and taking care of these animals but doing what's right to help them. As a human race we are often very very short minded......if we look the small picture it would be cool to use chute planes, helicopter and such to locate game.....this gives us the MAJOR UPPER HAND.....but if we look at the big picture (ie "I want my kids to be able to hunt", "I want to have game available to see when I take my family out", "I want game to be around in general")......this whole thing about locating game using chute planes and helicopters, whether it be in Alaska or Arizona is just plain WRONG!!!!! I don't care what your ethics are......if you look at the big picture and keep our heritage in perspective you CANNOT be in the gray area.....this comes down to black and white.....END OF STORY. Scott

Depening on the spread I'm going to say 70"

I found this quote very intersting.....it's from Jim's new book Deer of the Southwest "An increasingly intersted public was growing discontented over the inflexibility of regulations that were at that time [and still today] governed by the legislature. As was see in state after state, wildlife management canno operate properly in the political arena. These groups [game protective associations.....us hunters....the ADA, etc] and began to lobby hard for the seperation of wildlife managment and politics, and the made some remarkable headway in early wildlife conservation in the Southwest" Now I'm not trying to start a battle here (which I probably will), but this sounds like the present day AZGFD.....commision member appointed by the govenor.....to pursue their interests.....not those of us who actually care to protect and conserve wildlife. From what I'm told (and I could be completely off base here), permit numbers this year were not based on what game wardens and biologist recommended but on politics. I suppose the QUANTITY....I mean lining corrupt agency pockets is more important than QUALITY AND CONSERVATION. This is just my 2 cents but that the way I see it! I would like to thank our legislature and appointed officials for their great efforts! SARCASM AT IT'S PEAK!!!! Scott

Can I count on anyone to be at the meeting tonight in Tucson? What should I watch for? What do you say? do they listen? I saw the elk and antelope proposals but have no idea what the green and red numbers mean.

From what I heard this was the 1st time Randy had used a chute plane to scout. Him and Greg Krogh are two of the best bow hunters of all time......there history has proved it. I hope like heck this accident didn't hurt Randy to bad and he's back by February. If you want a chute plane and an afford it.....get one and use it. I know I can't afford one.....would I like one? You bet. Would I use it? You bet. Back in the day everyone used open site rifles....then came rifle scopes. Back in the day no one had binoculars or a spotting scope......now everyone has them. Should we outlaw all these? NO. The best hunters of all time were probably the indians. What methods did they use? A wood bow and a wood stick with a rock tip. Were they hunting for trophies? NO. Did they kill stuff? Yes. They didn't have a bow that shoots some 3XX ft per second. We have technologies nowadays that our ancestors didn't have. Should we use them? YES. As long as your within the law.....it just comes down to how you feel when kneel and pray and you lay your head on your pillow. RANDY BEST OF LUCK! HOPE YOU GET BETTER FAST. I'D LOVE TO SEE YOU AND GREG STICK SOME MONSTER AZ COUES!!!! Your ones from Mexico were AWESOME!!!! Your historical track record has proved you guys are some of the best archery hunters to ever live. Scott

Arizona Deer Association www.azdeer.org scott

The ADA I belive is our best bet. We definitely need to do something. Of all the government agencies I do believe the AZGFD does make a good effort to let the public know about meeting where our input is wanted (if there is such a thing). I also agree about the Game Wardens being under tremendous pressure to do and follow others political agendas......which is sad a heck. The bottom line (due to politics) is $$$.....which as we all knows gets things done for the wrong reasons. When it comes to state land you might be pleasantly surprised that it is rather difficult to develope it. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO REQUEST THAT JIM HEFFELFINGER (DEERNUT) HIMSELF JUMP IN HERE AND FILL US ALL IN. I don't mean this in a bad way either.....he is an actual insider who should know how the system works VERY well.

You gonna just leave us hangin? Great buck.....what's the story? Scott

I think we just need a change in the system.....as Heffelfingers quote says government (other than law enforcement) cannot be mixed with game mangagment. Take that however you want

Daniel, Congrats! Great story. It is amazing how many people are having lion experiences this year. I still think we should all get together and dedicate 3 or 4 weekends to nothing but killing those suckers!!!! I'm sure that buck will go over 109"

Weeks of scouting paid off opening day 12:07 pm. The spot we had chosen we'd scouted for 2 weekends, with a total of 8 weekends all over the unit. With 550 WT tags I really wanted to be prepared. Friday morning we got up at 4:50 am, warmed up some hot water cooked the oatmeal and loaded up our gear. Here's the camp cook: My dear ol' Dad! We had a good friend of ours come in that morning to help us glass and we settled in on the same radio channel and we were off and running. We were setup and glassing by 5:50 am and by 7:45 am hadn't seen any thing. My dad was glassing an area and noticed what he thought to be an old sign, so he left it alone and glassed else where. When he returned to the sign....it was gone. He says "Scott we've got some deer" and proceeds to dial me into where he's seeing them. One look through my Swarovski 10x50's and I say "we've got lions". There were 4.....YES FOUR (4) LIONS running together. No wonder no one's seeing to many deer. Here's a few pics of the lions. After watching the lions for about 10 minutes they slipped out of sight into a canyon towards some water. As we sat and glassed I picked up a buck about 1/4 mile away from where we saw the lions. I put the spotting scope on him and being that it was about 1.5 miles away all I could tell was that he was what appeared to be a 3 point. Here is a halfway decent picture of him. I knew he wasn't huge from the build of his frame but we decided to go after him since I was pressed for time due to lack of vacation time. We began the 3 hour trip just to get to him after putting him to bed. Here are some pictures of where we glassed from and where he was. Where we glassed from Where the animals were 3 hours later we finally got to him and found he bedded just where we had left him. It was a 425 yard shot and all we could see was his head.....so I decided to get closer. I backed down off the ridge where we re-picked him up bedded and snuck to within 175 yards. Once I got there I couldn't see him so I sat and waited and waited and waited. I started throwing rocks in the canyon to maybe try to get him to stand up and give me a shot. He finally stood up and started feeding. He moved between my only shooting alley quickly and I shot....I wasn't sure if I'd hit him or not so I waited about 2 minutes. I finally got tired of waiting and stood up. I moved towards him hoping he was down and he trotted up the hill. I took my time and down he went at 75 yards. Here's the both of us! I would like to thank my Heavenly Father for answering my prayers, my wife and daughter for being extremely patient with me during the many weeks of scouting, my dad and mom for their great effort and "Mr. Krank" for his time!! We did it boys!!!! More time and bigger bucks next year. Over and out! Scott

I know for a fact that a large portion of the pay that game wardens get comes from OHV support funds. I AM TOTALLY AGAINST THE COPPER STICKER. I don't care if you have a quad, a horse, a sheep with a saddle, we (hunters and the public) pay fees to have a license plate and taxes when we buy quads, trucks, jeeps etc......NO MORE FEES. I grew up on mules and horses, now my folks can't afford to feed them all year so we have quads. I think that quads are ok to get to a designated spot on a designated road.....that's where we should get off our duffs and walk......this years hunt is a perfect example. We road the quad down a designated road....parked it and walked! I would have hated to have had to walk 5 miles in the heat of the day and then have to walk another mile to go get the buck. And not to hi-jack this thread I sure as heck hope the AZGFD or any government agency turns hunting and the outdoors into a rich many only sport. I don't care whether is through a copper sticker or higher tag prices! Although I do support the increase in tag fees as long as QUALITY NOT QUANTITY HUNTS COME ALONG. Scott

Has anyone found a good stadium style seat that is light and good for carrying around so when you glass you can be comfortable? I've seen some vest's for the turkey hunters at cabela's but I'm thinking just the seat? Tell us what you use! thanks

Congrats man! Technology to be able to share these moments with the rest of the world make this some much better. Don't you love Swarovski!