Desertguide
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Everything posted by Desertguide
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Interesting. I've never personally filed one but the executive director of one of the state critter groups told me he has used it and had good results. Maybe he was talking about the one the state has.
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Amen to that!!!
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In the end it comes back to bite them. When it's ONLY about the money, they end up cutting corners. When they happens they get busted and they have the dept standing on their tails. Even out of state guys end up finding out about it and they lose repeat clients... which is the backbone of any outfit. I'm not gonna pretend money doesn't matter. I wouldn't guide for free. No way. I put WAY to much money into fuel, optics and gear to give my time away. Except for junior hunts, I won't charge for a junior hunt. BUT... I won't EVER put the money above my love for the wildlife... and I could care less about ever booking an auction tag or even hunting some of the premium units. The pressure takes the joy out of it. No thank you.. lol
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Unfortunately... the outfits booking those hunts could give a rip about animosity. They already know you won't book a hunt with them. How is you not liking guides going to keep them from booking auction tags? Or any hunt for that matter? The only outfits that are hurt by public perception are the ones that get caught breaking the law.
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Freedom of information act. We a citizens have every right to know where that money goes. It takes a little effort but you can file a Freedom of Information act request and they HAVE to show you where it goes. Did you know it's the same with G&F trailcams? You can do the same thing and be able to see every picture they get on a specific trailcam. It's public record and you have the right to see it.
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Necessary evil. The VAST amounts of money those tags generate goes a long way in this state. All the drinkers we hunt, all the land the AES Sawyers clear, all the old barbed wire that's torn down, all the dirt tanks that get mucked out... all of that happens with the money from those commissioners tags.
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I'd be perfectly fine with more regulation on guides and outfitters. If that's the source of the issue then address it. That's better than all the grey area this rule will create. Make guides carry permits for their cams and limit how many they can have in a specific unit. I'm totally cool with all that. This might sound sappy but the first thing I think of is the family guy with limited time to scout and how this cuts his legs out from under him.
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I wonder how many hunters will keep running cameras for fun... which will still be totally legal... and hunt different areas so they stay legal. And how many guys will go crazy when they see cameras still up or even steal cameras meant for viewing thinking they're "helping" game and fish.
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Good points!!!
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That's awesome!!! I had a similar situation happen last January. I found a giant 5x4 in the desert at basically the same time as a couple DIY guys. They had to work and I had a client from Montana so we hunted that buck pretty hard. We had several close calls with him but couldn't close the deal. I had a 1 day gap between that hunter leaving and another coming in and I knew those 2 guys would be back out hunting him because we traded numbers. I backed out totally until they had to go back to work. They ended up getting 6 opportunities at him and the buck left the area. I didn't get to hunt him again but I'd do it that way all over again. I have no interest in competing for animals. What lots of guides don't understand is that their clients don't like the stress of competing with other hunters for animals. Every client I've ever guided would MUCH rather have a stress free hunt and get an opportunity at a mature animal instead of racing all over creation trying to best other hunters to an animal. I have zero interest in that crap
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Also.. the baiting rule is far clearer in its wording than this dumb rule and it's pretty easy to find evidence of baiting. A guy can get rid of his trailcam evidence by hitting delete. I can also guarantee that there will still be cameras all over the place because it will take guys 5 seconds to figure out that it IS in fact unenforceable.
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I literally just said I don't hunt or guide any of the premium deer units and that I only know what I hear. If you're determined to be pissed off at guides, have at it. Maybe they are the root of the problem. Still doesn't change the fact that this rule as worded is totally unenforceable. If you're cool with that... awesome.
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I honestly don't understand what guides vs DIY has to do with all this. I understand there are some units that get hammered with cameras. That's gotta be frustrating as heck. I don't guide or hunt in any of the premium deer units so I only know what I hear. I completely understand the argument guys are making in favor of banning cameras. You all make very valid points. As I've stated many times, I'm opposed to unenforceable rules and the way this rule is worded, it's totally unenforceable. I was a hard core DIY guy long before I ever thought of guiding so I completely understand the challenges that come with having a 60 hour a week job, 2 weeks vacation and a family. You get to hunt one week if you're lucky enough to draw a tag and then a few weekends here and there for archery deer. Trailcams ARE a huge benefit to DIY guys. They may be for outfitters in certain unit as well... I don't know. As I've also stated, I don't use trailcams so throwing the "guide" thing at me makes no sense. I don't have a dog in the fight. I truly just want what's fair and right for AZ hunters. I also totally oppose more arbitrary, unenforceable rules.
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Ok... I guess we'll see. I'm out there the entire early archery deer hunt so I'll let you know.
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Don't know how that happened... lol
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This truly isn't about guides or DIY. It's about a rule that will have a big impact on the way some people hunt. It will actually impact all of us one way or another. If they do ban them, it's going to force a lot more hunters to scout a lot more. More people in the field more often. If you want the ban, don't complain when you're hunting early archery deer and there are guys everywhere scouting for elk. I just want game and fish to do what's right. And to me.. what is right is clear concise rules without miles of gray area that are enforceable. Good night all... good chatting with you.
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I guess it depends on how you hunt. The way I hunt and guide they wouldn't make any difference whatsoever. Now... early archery on coues last year... I bet they made a HUGE difference. That was a slaughter.
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Right on. So what frame of reference do you have to say there should be an asterix? I can honestly say that 75% of the hunters I guide could out hunt 80% of the DIY guys I know in this state. Would you go to your buddies in Colorado, let him show you his best spots, eat his food, use his gas, let him take a week off work and not give him a dime? I bet not. Theres really no difference.
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Have you ever been on a guided hunt in another state?
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I love the Bo too!! It's my favorite place to hunt up north. It's much like the desert in that it doesn't get the pressure that other units do. I'd honestly be happy if ALL the rules on the Bo applied statewide. But they would all have to apply for it to have an impact. My opposition to the trailcam ban has more to do with it being unenforceable than anything else. To me its a waste of time. If they want to ban something they should ban muzzleloaders that shoot 700 yards. Primitive weapon... lol?
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That's a really fair assessment I think. I happen to be a head guide for one of the bigger outfits. Bigger as in booked hunts.. not numbers of guides. We work really REALLY hard to do things by the book. A guide that's out for glory doesn't last long with us. I think there's a invisible threshold most bigger outfits seem to cross that makes them get sideways. It's seems that as soon as the money trumps the quality of the hunt... not the animal, the hunt... outfits seem to spiral down. Now mind you... I've only worked for the outfit I currently work for so all this is speculation. I can certainly understand the feelings towards guides and outfitters though. I also think that we all have negative experiences in the field but it might be that the ones that stand out are the ones that involve guides? Just a thought. Either way, you make a very valid point.
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I didn't say the no cams rule didn't have an impact, I said that the other rules had more of an impact. And if you really think about it... its true. If you can't set a blind on a waterhole... what the heck is the use of putting a trailcam on the waterhole?
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Trailcams isn't only one rule on the Bo. No groundblinds, no SXS's and a 1/4 of the roads any place else in the state has besides wilderness. Those all make much more of a difference than cams do.
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I'm sure you're right. I've honestly never stepped foot in any unit north of the canyon.. and I was born in AZ... lol. I'm certain there's an answer to that problem without cornholing the rest of the state. Permit trailcams and limit how many each outfitter can run maybe? Here's the thing... the guys running hunts in those units aren't going to stop because trailcams get nuked. They'll just hire young bucks to sit on deer all summer. It'll cost more but that cost will be passed on to the clients. And.. they'll pay it. In the meantime, some poor Joe will draw a strip tag, won't have the money for a guide and will get 2 maybe 3 scouting trips up there... without the benefit of trailcams. Its only hurting regular guys.
