Desertguide

The only way I can give back is by going to a banquet? You made my point for me... lol. Thanks!!

These guys... lol.

Dirtbags

The smoke we're getting is from something burning on the San Carlos. Probably salt cedars in the river bottom around Bylas

I don't do banquets man. There are a few good guys in those groups but for the most part they're self-important delta bravos. I hunt mule deer 90 days per year and I've never been to an MDF or AMDO banquet. I didn't hang out with the "cool" kids in high school either.

Yeah you're probably right

I've been in and around the car business for 31 years. Most of the idiots that refer to customers as boss, bro, amigo... whatever... only last about 90 days. I don't care how old the customer is, people don't like that crap and those idiots never get it. It's not generational either... only the names they use change. There are idiots in every generation.

Don't know its coming from all the way from Dudleyville but we're getting quite a bit of smoke from the west here in Pima.

I haven't ever been to the ADBSS banquet. I guess that makes it not funny.

My wife (41) had it and it kicked her butt. It's been 8 months and her taste a smell are still goofy. My daughter (15) had It and it lasted a week. Felt like a bad cold. My baby girl (1) and I (47) were both exposed when the wife and daughter had it and never showed a symptom. China engineered this virus to be really weird.

I'm out... cheaper to buy an auction tag. Plus I just put up $50 in raffle for a 100 BB's

The glassing method does work because it's been done. I remember running into a couple game and fish guys on quads about 18 years ago in unit 21. That's exactly what they were doing. I would bet they still do it that way from time to time... but I can't say for sure. Which one is better? No clue. I bet I know which one is easier though... lol

Phew!!!! My numbers were right... lol. I was going by memory and I was REALLY worried I wasn't remembering correctly. Thanks for posting this!!!!

The more we discuss this and I read all these comments... and remember everything I've personally learned.... I think many of us are over thinking this whole thing. Myself included. I think we are placing too much importance on bucks for one. One thing that was a real eye opener for me was when I learned how unimportant bucks are to heard health. One buck can cover up to 20 does during the rut. Thats a 100:5 doe:buck ratio. That's an abysmal ratio for a unit. But... thats a ratio that would maintain herd size with all other aspects excluded. Now we can go back and forth about surveys but the most important number they are focused on is doe:fawn ratios. Fawn recruitment is FAR more important that how many bucks are out there... so long as theres enough bucks to breed all the does. Once the number of bucks drops to a level that all the does aren't being bred, they have to cut tags. The other reason they will cut tags is to maintain hunt/trophy quality... for us. I guess my point is, we are so hyper focused on tags, we aren't considering herd health. We can sit back a nit pick how they do surveys, whether they be voluntary or mandatory... but surveys only focus on bucks... the least important element in the entire equation. We should be thankful they are cutting tags and shift our focus to doe survival and fawn recruitment if we truly care about what's happening with our deer. How long and how many of us have bitched and moaned about how there are too many tags? Well... we are getting our wish.

I think its pretty easy for us to forget that WM's are responsible for more than counting deer. They are responsible for ALL game species in their unit/units. But let's just focus on deer. They do their counts during the rut. Many also have hunts going at that time. Deer, javelina, quail.. to name a few. So while trying to do surveys they're also trying to keep a handle on their unit and actual enforcement. At the same time they're getting calls from hunters about a whole list of things. One call we make quite a bit is to report idiots driving in the wilderness. So getting out and planting their butts on top of a mountain with optics isn't even feasible given the time it would take to cover all the ground they would need to. Not to mention the manpower it would take to get it done in time to get recommendations done for the exact thing we are discussing.

Really? So how would you suggest they do their annual surveys?

They have to get numbers on both sides. They have to know how many are out there... aerial surveys.... and they have to know how many bucks are killed.... mail surveys/mandatory reporting. Aerial surveys are actually more important because that's when they can count does and fawns... which are the true measure of herd health. Knowing how many bucks are killed is important so they can maintain target buck:doe ratios but... buck harvest isn't nearly as important to herd health as fawn recruitment.

I just want to understand how and why they do things. I think as hunters we should want to learn as much as we possibly can about the animals we hunt. Part of that is understanding how they are managed. I still don't agree with the whole mandatory reporting thing but what do I know... lol... I got my good enough diploma.

68OLDS, Well I'm sitting here wondering... If the dept knows how many deer were killed out of 1000 tags by how 50% of the tag holders responded on their surveys... do they have a formula to figure out how many of the 50% that did return the survey actually lied on their survey? Or do liars not return voluntary surveys? Or do they? Maybe they return the voluntary surveys just to lie to keep more tags in the unit they draw every 4 years!!! What if it's OTC? How many of that 20% are liars? In my experience bowhunters lie at a much higher rate. Delw, I'm being a smarta$$ of course. Sorry Delw. I appreciate your knowledge and explaining the aerial survey process to me but I'm not buying what the dept is trying to sell us on mandatory reporting.

Then why even have a public comment period?

Going back to the NR draw idea... We have quite a few clients that come every year to hunt with us in Jan that are also building points. I can't imagine NR's that are building points being willing to burn them on an archery rut hunt. I would bet that less than half of the NR's who currently come for the OTC hunts would apply for the same hunt if it went to a draw. Maybe even closer 1/3. That's a pretty good loss in revenue.

Exactly... mine still isn't right... lol

A few years ago they were concentrated in predictable areas in region 4. Now they're getting adventurous and expanding into new areas... well... new areas to them. It doesn't alarm me too much. I watch them fumble around the desert and I can tell you, most don't have any idea what they're doing. But.. pressure is pressure and deer in the desert don't respond well to too much pressure. Add them to the hoards of snowbirds in those stupid freakin SXS caravans and the desert can get downright stupid.

🙄🙄🙄

Well she ain't getting it from me.