Nefarious Red

Delw, I believe that post is in the political section of the forumns.

The education plan is what will fight the fight for us. It makes it so we don't have to hide in the bushes with cameras, wear disguises and go to their meetings, infilitrate their pages, hide under their vehicles, create fake events for them to show up to, intercept communications, and other nefarious things.

Let me give you some evidence of an educated voter. In this video, I staked out a petitioner. He was spreading his lies. The couple was ready to sign, but gave me the opportunity to speak to them. You can see the man holding one of my fliers. After gaining a bit of knowledge, they declined to sign. I also had people gi back to the petition and scratch their name off. We cant engage every petitioner. It took a TON of shadow work to infiltrate enough to be a step ahead of them. https://youtu.be/rQGBG7DbC90

Delw,I know less about CAPAZ than you may think. But I do know a lot about HSUS' plans. I know things you don't know. I know things CAPAZ doesnt know. I even know things that I dont know. So let me give you any insite into the type of outreach plan I am ASSUMING is going to take place. As stated, Game and Fish is limited on what they can tell the public. So much like as outlined in the posted article, the plan is to engage the public on several fronts, i.e. television, radio, social media, etc. to get the message across to the 70 percent of Arizona voters that have NO CLUE what kind of contributions we make and how imperative hunting is to conservation in Arizona. This makes it more difficult for groups like HSUS to spreas lies, like "trophy hunting" like they did during the mountain lion ban. It is a way to fight them outside of the political arena. CAPAZ does not handle the money or the program. Game and Fish does.

Good old "show me, give me" Delw. Get off your welfare butt and do something to help, instead of badmouthing the people that actually are.

I haven't attacked anyone against auction tags, and I've said several times I'm willing to set my favorable opinion of them aside. What I have done is find several smart people that are interested in bringing something to the table. Nobody owes you anything, Delw. Nobody has to provide you with anything. THAT is the welfare you are talking about. Some of you are just upset that I came in and disrupted your pity party. You want to stay in your own little corner of the internet and convince yourselves you are a big fish in a small pond. This plan will move ahead without your help or input.

you wont contribute to fighting antis, you wont contribute to conservation, and I suspect you don't contribute to life in general. Let me know when you are done with your temper tantrum.

Dumb. No wonder you can't contribute. Let me know when you pass the third grade.

What i meant by that was that the article describes funding sources, that can be explored as a substitute for auction tags.

Thanks for that article, Trophyseeker. Good stuff. And I know there is another person on this forum that has done quite a bit of follow up work with the group involved in that article. Let's see what comes of it.

i just want to know how in the heck I've ended up in yet another online catcalling contest with Delw a decade later. I also want to know if Ringer is so paranoid by now that he's going to send Nummie over to knock on my door and punch me in the kneecaps.

Delw, you should get on Facebook. There is a pretty good fishing page on there. I hear it caused the demise of a once popular internet fishing page, because the owner couldn't anticipate the changing social media landscape. Even Franklin J is having a good time on that Facebook page.

I hear you loud and clear. And I dont want to speak for you, so I will ask you, do you agree with the need for a comprehensive strategy to defeat groups like HSUS, including the proposed Game and Fish education plan? I know someone posted a very good article on the States that have implemented it and its success. Also, based upon your results and your own statement of being on board with raffle tags, would you support a plan that includes raffle tags and maybe a fee or stamp of some sort? Like ive said, I tend to agree with auction tags. But I also understand that there are also talented and dedicated hunters that do not want them, and I respect those opinions and I have no problem pulling my support for auction tags if it means pushing the plan forward.

Blake, I have told you I agreed with your survey. Thank you . I have a few questions. 1. Are people able to answer the survey multiple times? 2. I know you put this survey in front of what is possibly tens of thousands of hunters. Do you think the fact that there were only 137 responses underlines a big problem in Arizona, and that is a general lack of participation? I know I am quite dismayed that there are not at least a couple thousand responses. None the less, thank you for all your efforts. *edit* When you combine the total number of people that do not want any type of new tag or any auction tag, and then you combine the total number of people that want an auction of raffle tag of some sort, the results are 68 to 61 in a survey that had 137 responses, not to include the 8 people that answered "other".

this like trying to get caught up mid season of walking dead or lost or name your favorite soap opera. Basics from what I understand. There are two sides to CAPAZ, one is the educational side that wants the tags or some sort of funding to educate the 70% of Arizonans that do not have an opinion on hunting. Their suggestion was permits because, unless somebody comes up with another idea, that is the easiest way to create money for education. The other side is the 501C side that wants to take on the political fight with the HSUS. (guys that want to stop hunting) Because the two are closely related but separate there are concerns that the 501c side (private donors that can stay in the shadows) will be funded by the rich guys that want to hunt every year with the tags generated from the education side. Personally I would like to see a death match of the hunting extremist and the HSUS extremist and meteor falls from the sky and squashes them all. idgaf, your first paragraph sums it up perfectly, especially "unless someone comes up with a better idea". I agree completely. So let's put our heads together and come up with a better idea. I also agree with your last paragraph, even though I run the risk of getting killed by a meteor.

lets start with the basics. Do you believe we need a comprehensive strategy to defeat groups like HSUS?

Good enough well that's unfortunate, because that's what HSUS relied upon. But I can admit when I'm wrong, my first impression of you was that you were smart enough to come up with some solid ideas to move this forward, and at least smarter than the antis. Perhaps I was wrong.

Yes to what, good enough or actually doing something?

and was being against the mountain lion ban also just simply "good enough" for you, or did you demand better than good enough and actually do something?

Trphyhntr, why don't you go straight to the source and ask CAPAZ? I feel like this is the most circular conversation ever. So again, tag raffles and auctions were SUGGESTIONS. Not the plan. They sought out the public to provide them with input. So if you don't want auction tags, then let's put our collective minds together and prove we are smarter than a bunch of libetal wind bags that actually DO want to take tags from you. And not one or two or three tags, all of them.

it does when those groups have access to tens of thousands of hunters in this State. And one could say the same about arguing amongst yourselves on an internet forum, it doesn't qualify you for anything.

naw, the hundreds i have signed on, as well as several heads of large hunting pages, groups, blogs, youtube channels, etc. that are ready to back any proposals CAPAZ has might decide, though. See ThomC, when you actually get out and do things, people take notice. So if you'd like, we can cease with trying to come to a solution that benefits us all. You can stay here with a few angry people that cant see past their nose, and I will rally those that want to see this plan through. Then when the pissing contest is over, regardless if you or I win our personal little grudge match, hunters in general will lose. So let's understand that none of us here will get absolutely everything we want, but we have to do something to stop these groups that have already taken so much from us. And for What I think is the seventh time now, I have no problem suspending any support i have for tag auctions it means we can find different ways to fund this plan.

bit dramatic id say. Why don't you go tell HSUS they can take hunting from your cold dead fingers. That way you can delude yourself into believing you are doing something to fight them.

appreciate your input Toby. Truth is you haven't contribute in any way, shape, or form. I don't know if it's because you are unwilling or incapable.

Krp, again, this has been explained SEVERAL times. It has also been discussed at meetings. You are trying to find a liophole using irrelevant data. Game and Fish is limited on the words they can say with the dollars they receive. They could have 20 nillion P and R funds in the bank. Wouldn't matter.