AZAV8ER

copper bullets pose significant fire hazard rmrs_rp104.pdf

Birds are very susceptible to lead poisoning because fragment/shot that are ground into powder in the gizzard and ends up passing into the bloodstream. Grew up with my 4 brothers and sister chomping on bird shot from dove and duck. Usually you spit them out, maybe one or two went down the throat? So far all going on 60 plus years old with two PHD's and 5 master degrees among us. If not for that lead poisoning we could be ruling the WORLD. (yes lead is not good for you, but what little you are exposed to from consuming game does not appear to have been overly detrimental)

I get the lead ban, been dealing with it for decades in my duck hunting. I still remain somewhat skeptical based purely on my own hunting experience. Almost all game I have harvested or seen harvested has been bullets through the chest. Some fragment but maybe half and allot of these fragments are in the shoulder meat or in "Jellied" lung tissue. We pack out all the meat, leaving spine and ribs sometimes. Practically ZERO lead in guts, whatever might be in lungs is in soup that melds into the dirt. How much lead is injected from bird shot in jack rabbits that are just shot and left? Maybe there are more gunshot deer that die and don't get recovered than I realize.

Used 30-06, 270, 280 and 7-08. Using the 270 for a bunch of years now, firstly the rifle I now have is very accurate. Secondly modest recoil/plenty punch for Coues. So what do you have that is accurate and you can stand to hump up and down the hills for several days?

Just ordered my second APA little bastard. It vents out the side and you can put it on easy. Shot a PRS match this weekend with it for the first time, went from mid pack out of 50 60 shooters to #10 overall. Big fan of the APA.

True, and I agree but there are those mornings that are cold enough to have you shivering uncontrollably if not prepared. Try and get a shot off as light gets good enough when you can't control your shaking. Been that cold several early AM's during early NOV hunts, luckily never cost me a shot but sure made an impression.

Lots of glassing lots of patience.

Plan on posible bitter cold in the AM, high 20's to low 30 then T shirt mid day. It could rain and in all my years (50 yrs) got snowed on once. Windy possible. Or just 40's at night and high 70's in the day. I am not much on heavy gear and like to hike in a ways then glass and move glass and move several times in a day. Light tripod and 10X40 ZEISS for me. Glass draws and slopes. I have several deer pop out of draws or brush just 50-60 yards below me as I am glassing. Hills sides you glass for an hour or so will all of a sudden produce deer out of the blue. They might have just left their beds or come over ridge or simply moved out of a thicket. Thats why I pass on a spotting scope, just figure the deer I miss just downslope is more important to spot that the one 1500 yards away. I have hunted in the Rockies at 8000/11000 feet and found it easier hiking in general that hiking 6000 FT in the AZ chasing Coues. Good boots that you can stand to hike in all day over hard rocky ground a big must.

Phoenix Custom Rifles in Tempe Kieth has done some work for me and have shot with him in matches. I love his work and how he goes about it, good guy. He would be perfect for what you need done.

Have you hunted public lands out west before? If you hike in and camp you probably need to pack in all the water you need. Have you looked at a BLM map for that part of the state? You driving out? I have had ranchers lock gates and mess up access last bunch years, if its a main BLM or FS road might be ok.

Shame it is so complicated to get a class. Took mine in 1964

I have a S4 Gear LOCKDOWN bino harness Never used I am near 7th ST & Bell I can text you pictures

Utah Gun Exchange is a good place to list guns FS. It gets views from neighboring states. Utah used to have a nice online classified adds on another site but they went all PC and stopped it. Some enterprising folks started up UGA.

I try to glass in the direction of the deer. In the early AM glass where you figure they will be feeding. Mid AM early afternoon glass where you think they are bedded or moving to-from bed/H2O. late evening where they will pop out of bed to feed some more. Just have to get out learn your country make plans and readjust plan as you learn more.

I have 2 270's with Lilja barrels, a lightweight and a "Sendero" weight . Both shoot lights out .3 to .5 groups.

Rule #1: If you want to lecture the Kiddies be ready to roll with the sarcastic remarks irreverent retorts.

Not claiming Moral Ground here, not making judgments on whats "good' or "bad". I am just not sure specifically setting up and setting out to hunt 500/600 or beyond is fair chase. This is the second post that goes on about how the deer has about zero chance of detecting danger, that indicates the lack of fair chase. Now if you see it different then lets have an open honest discussion on this.

If you can get the Leupold you described then that would be a very nice set up for your rifle. I have a very light 270 WIN with the small Swarovski 3-9 Z3 and out to 300/350 its been enough. Going out to 500 I rather have what you are looking at in the Leupold. Good luck, good hunting.

Well do you want light weight? Then Swarovski Z3 3-9X36 is the way to go, 12OZ's. To shoot past 300/350 I have come to believe you need a bit more. Now this is my experience and I invite others who have done this to chime in. To get out to 400/500 yards with a light rifle I would like something like the Vortex Viper HST 4-16X44 its $570 at optics planet and 21 ozs. For ranges past 350/400 dial up turrets would serve you well. Leupold VX3i 30mm 4.5-14X40 Boone and Crockett reticle at 15ozs gets close to your price range. Shooting past 350/400 with a light rifle becomes a challenge. Thats just my experience, and what that experience leads me to recommend.

Ohhhhh do you think. That would be awesome !!!! Lets see, only single shot rifles and lets say max 4X maybe 6X fixed power scopes sans turrets and duplex reticules at the most. Also only cartridges that were around before 1930.

I'm sorry but it IS feeding the anti's. We should support ALL legal methods of hunting. You don't have to like it, or even agree with it, but you should support it, and allow it. Some guys don't like hunting with dogs, some don't like long shots, some don't like archery, some people don't want to hunt bears, some don't want to hunt African Game, and on and on and on. Where do you draw the line on that!? Support all legal hunting, or go nit me a f#cking sweater. The problem is, that people are f#cking selfish now of days. I want it my way. Your way is wrong. Only my way is right. Grow a sack people. Nothing is perfect, get over it. Ok Six0 I simply posed a question about fair chase. I would rather you not get up in my grill because you don't like the question. BTW if you don't want to feed the antis then quit bragging about that 1000 yard assassination and don't post video of it (not you in particular because I have no idea how you hunt or go about your business). When you get your deer inside of 300/400 yards not much time to set up a camera. In some ways killing at very long range is like sleeping with your wife's sister better to not say anything about it or post video. I mean, you know if you don't want to feed the antis so to speak.

Always a fun discussion. One question that comes to my mind is at what distance is it no longer fair chase? You know, does the deer or elk have a fair chance of detecting danger when its a guy and his spotter 1000 yards away laser ranging them then loading their weather station data into the ballistic app etc? So when we depart the zone of fair chase now its not hunting its just killing. Oh and don't give me this "your just feeding ANTI's ideas". heck antis don't like hunting PERIOD and they are clever enough to figure out on their own what might not fly as fair chase. ,

Shooting/hunting beyond 500/600 yards is i whole different game. When I do the FRI AM 500yrd practice, accuracy with my Seekins Havak 6.5C PRS rifle with muzzle brake and big glass is dead on cinch. When I get behind the gun using a 270WIN normal weight MOD 70 Winchester hitting inside of 6 inch group becomes more challenging. I just enjoy hunting with the 270 MOD 70 and enjoy lighter and less gear. It feels like hunting and its enjoyable. If I wanted to be a sniper I would have skipped the U and joined the Marines at age 18. I hear they they a great Scout/Sniper program if you are good enough to get selected for it.

I don't know the area or the total situation, But What Its not another Hunter ??

Commercializing the hunt to the point it becomes technology, big $ and big egos paying someone else to do all the work so they can get their big kill. heck lets just cut out a steel silhouette of a monster buck or bull set it up at 600 yards and put Mr Big Buck Master Blaster in position to knock it down then give them their Euro mount of some plastic cast mongo rack and send them on their way.