loboscout

Some at guns e4c in Mesa

I had Bear Mountain order me some in. I have granddads level action, fun rifle.

Always good to be cautious. This guy is good to go, and will be a local sale...

Bump! Ammo is hard to find, but I have two full boxes of Hornady match ammo I need to sell! It shot well through the Savage .338 lapua I sold a while back.

I run the 5-25 on my match rifle and the 3.6-18 on my hunting rifle, CCH reticle. For the money, they are one of the best scopes. It is the only Leupold I would own for long range shooting... I sold off all the budget rifles, handguns, ARs and optics I had collected over the years and bought the scopes barely used between 1500 and 1600 bucks. It is worth having awesome gear in the safe, rather than a lot of stuff that I never shoot.

I've said some bold things in this thread and another, so I am prepared to eat my hat in shame if necessary. Anyone who wants to come play, I have calendared shooting Saturday, January 30, 2021 9:00 am until we've had enough fun. If it is just a couple people, we can hike and shoot rocks. If there is a bigger group, then I can find somewhere to set up steel at increments out to 1000 yards. We can do it out between Gila Bend and Maricopa, accessible to East and West siders. PM me if you are in. To anyone who beats me--we can make the rules up as we go--I will give you a shooting bag. If people just want to come shoot, they are welcome to come see me eat my hat in shame. I can show you what I know within my competency. I'd welcome any others who know more than me to be there and chime in. Its gonna be informal.

Saturday, January 30, 2021 9:00 am until we've had enough fun. If it is just a couple people, we can hike and shoot rocks. If there is a bigger group, then I can find somewhere to set up steel at increments out to 1000 yards. We can do it out between Gila Bend and Maricopa, accessible to East and West siders. PM me if you are in. To anyone who beats me--we can make the rules up as we go--I will give you a shooting bag. If people just want to come shoot, they are welcome to come see me eat my hat in shame. I can show you what I know within my competency. I'd welcome any others who know more than me to be there and chime in. Its gonna be informal.

No offense taken. Tripod shooting was bleeding edge sort of stuff a year or two ago. Its only cutting edge now. We live in an amazing time for precision rifle and long range. I really love to share the new exciting stuff that is coming out. Tripod shooting is a very new skill, and still developing. I will throw out a "humble brag" cause it isn't something I figured out on my own... I got really lucky and trained in Texas with a lead instructor for the Marine Urban Sniper training ( https://www.rauchprecision.com/training ) who is/was professional associated with Hog Saddle as an instructor, and with a lead instructor for special forces sniper training detachment (got to fly to CO and shoot with him on base). I'm just a noob who made some cool connections through Facebook with other passionate guys and took the time to fly and train with them. It also helps that I make shooting bags that they buy and use for their training, hunting, and professional use. I also make the shooting bags for Hat Creek Training, a premier mountain/high angle precision rifle training facility. Just shipped 25 before Thanksgiving for a new class starting today. https://www.facebook.com/HatCreekTraining/photos/a.2259957187366689/3541380012557727/ Not many people have seen or understand how fast and easy it is to set up for a tripod shot. I practice speed deployment of my tripod all the time. My legs are marked on my tripod. I could probably do it blindfolded. Many times, if I am already glassing, the time for me to switch from glass to a rifle shot is exceptionally quick. Often times, just changing the angle of one leg and mounting my rifle. The bags actually make it more flexible and quicker to set up and get on target. Having shot off something like you have before, and now learning to use a tripod, I know that I personally can shoot much more accurately off my tripod. In many positions I am as stable as prone. I'd bet I could set up and shoot as fast or faster than you'd ever suspect. If you've ever shot PRS type competitions, you know how fast you can get into a position and make 9 shots on multiple targets all in 90 seconds or less. I would not have believed it myself a few years ago. It is a sport and I'd never carry a match rifle hunting, but a lot of it directly translates to hunting. And, even the technology has changed. My current tripod and ballhead set up is something that I'd bet the vast majority of hunters have never seen. With distance, quite often comes time and opportunity, so setting up is usually not a time crunch. I had a long time to set up there in Alaska. On my buddy's sitka, we were hiking to a new spot when he saw the deer. I had it all out of my pack and set up with the shot taken in less than 2 minutes at 575. If you want to see what guys are doing with tripods, here is a pretty good tutorial about it. https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/field-match-tips-tricks-and-stage-examples-for-ukd-team-field-match.6980614/post-8495271 I should put my money where my mouth is and do a video showing at least one typical deployment of my tripod...

100% agree recurveman. I reload for precision as well. One thing I would add is don't overgun it, cause you don't need to add unnecessary recoil to the things you need to learn. Ballistically, recurveman is right, it won't matter what lead is flying, dead is dead. But, you don't need the extra punishment, IMO. 30-06 or 7mm rem mag are my choices for that reason, especially braked with a good recoil pad. Make shooting easy. If you were only to hunt deer, a 260 rem or 6.5 cm, or even a 243 win or 6 creedmoor is deadly inside 500. For most shooters, 500 is a practical maximum range that can be achieved without diving deep into the weeds. It bears repeating, like recurveman said, the time behind the rifle is what makes you deadly, far more than the cartridge choice. In fact, I am confident enough that with my 6mm creedmoor I could put a 115 grain VLD hunting bullet into the ribs of an elk inside 500 yards and that bullet would double lung it to do more tissue damage than an 300 wm accubond in the same spot. It is the bullet construction and velocity that is doing the killing with the Berger VLD. You just want to avoid thick bones if you can, and the lungs behind the shoulder are a big target. I've seen enough kills to know how the bullet performs when it all comes together. Of course, the accubond in the shoulder will do far more damage than the 115 vld would do in the shoulder. Its knowing the gear and performance, that's what takes time and some knowledge.

A 7mm rem mag is what I recommend from factory rifles. A 9 twist rifle can shoot the HSM or other loads with the 168 grain Berger bullet. It is all you need to clobber an elk. With the more managable recoil of the 7 rem mag, you can put the bullet in the boiler room more effectively and the 168 Berger is deadly. There is absolutely a recoil impulse that happens before the bullet leaves the bore, and the big 300 exploit shooting weaknesses. If you aren't practiced, you can't shoot accurately with something that is throwing you around. Not to mention most of the guys fail the flinch test when I put a fired case in the rifle, hahahaha. Sometimes, I would fail myself if I am not in the groove. I shot a 7 rem mag until I built my short mag 7mm Sherman Short mag. I spun that 7 rem mag barrel onto a rifle for my buddy, and I just shot a 0.2 moa group with 180 VLD. Once zeroed, I put the data into my ballistic calculator and my buddy got a first round hit on a 12 inch target at 630 yards. Most people, I can have them shooting 500 yards easy and 1000 yards quickly if the rifle they have is capable. It is complicated when you don't know what you don't know, but with a little instruction, it is pretty amazing to see stuff click. There is nothing like firing a shot, seeing the impact, and then hearing the steel ring 1000 yards away. I built my rifle last year and had one shot DRT on 3 deer and 2 caribou. I shot my elk 3 times this year, cause he was still standing there. Each bullet was lethal and had double lunged him. Shots with my 7ss have been 100, 100, 425, 575, 575, and 590. I am 100% confident out to 700. This first video is of me practicing my field shooting, and confirming I was 100% proficient at 500 yards in average conditions. I shooting on a tripod like the second video. You can see I put my first shot in the center of the rock, which would be deer sized vitals I think. Then, other than the second shot a couple inches away, I stacked the rest. Most definitely an MOA group at 500 yards. When I first got started in hunting, I heard lots of talk about what their rifles could do, but never saw anyone back it up. I put in time shooting and studying. Most of the guys have come to me to help them get a rifle and dialed in. A buddy just helped his dad shoot his elk at 1100 yards with a twin to my rifle shooting 180 vld. There was certainly an amount of luck for sure, the first shot was high and they saw it to make the correction. He then sent two fatal shots. That is likely not a shot I would have taken, but the point is, with the right gear and knowledge, if you can press the trigger without disturbing the rifle and a little luck, you can make the hero shot. I would add that a shot with his dad's 270 at 350 yards would probably be the same proportion of luck/rifle/skill... gear can make a difference. There are lots who are better than me, but I am pretty realistic about my skill and the reality of bullet flight.

For anyone curious on crunching numbers, here is JBM Ballistics, an online ballistic solver. Its actually pretty good and easy to use. The maths don't lie. https://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/calculators/calculators.shtml When comparing cartridges, like between 300 wm and 7 rem mag, I like to use published data on Hornady Precision Hunter ammo from their website, cause you know the bullet and they give you a muzzle velocity to enter into JBM. I know individual results may vary, but it is a solid baseline to compare basic performance. A reloader may be able to hotrod their preferred cartridge, but all can be hotrodded, which is why the comparison still holds true. Pay attention to drop and wind drift. Also, look at what distance the velocity drops below 1800 fps, that is the typical manufacturer's minimal terminal velocity.

Its ballistics. A bullet drops less and gets pushed by wind less the faster it is and the higher the BC, ballistic coefficient. The .28 nosler shoots the most aerodynamic .284/7mm bullets the fastest of most any other 7mm factory round. You have to get a 300 Norma or 300 rum to match the velocity and BC by shooting a 230+ grain .300 bullet. With the big .300 magnums you get much larger recoil. A 300 rum uses over 95 grains of powder. The 7 rem mag uses 65ish for example. All that powder and a bullet weighing 50 grains more... Recoil management most definitely affects precision and accuracy. I firmly believe, and have seen, that the brave guys shooting the lightweight hunting 300 ultramags can't control the recoil well enough to shoot it well, even though the numbers look good. If anyone wants to come shoot with me, we can take a hike, pick a rock on the next ridge, and see who is most accurate from a field position in unknown conditions. We can shoot for bragging rights. I'll find someone to film it, cause film don't lie. That is why I shoot a 7mm/.284 wildcat that shoots the 180 grain Berger VLD at 3050 fps. I chose to maximize the size and BC of the bullet but minimize the recoil. It is lethal at further distances than the 300 win mag with any bullet. It has less velocity than the 28 Nosler, but I can get almost twice the barrel life. And, there is very little difference at the reasonable long range hunting shots I will take.

If you run the ballistics, the 28 Nosler typically shoot a much higher BC bullet, which produces less drop and less wind drift than a 300 wm. Even if you hand load and push them to the max, the 28 can still produce more velocity paired with higher BC bullets. Its a case capacity issue. And, even if you look only at elevation, the same standard deviation in muzzle velocity will create a much higher elevation error in 300 wm than in 28 nos. If you are shooting factory ammo, the extreme spread of muzzle velocity will commonly produce vertical stringing that would take you above and below the kill zone of a deer. So, if you pull the shot a little high and you get a faster bullet, you will miss high. You could correct based upon the impact, and then shoot low even if you held perfect but the velocity was at the lowest extreme. Dive into the weeds to look at all the factors, and the sheer reality is that MOST people can't make a 1000 yards shot at a square range on demand with the gear they have. You gotta hit the critter first. And, at 1000 yards, many 308 bullets common in a 300 wm are below the terminal velocity to expand in many hunting conditions. The cold thick air really slows a bullet. That is where the added velocity and higher BC in a 28 matter. A 180 in .284 has a much higher BC than a 190 in .300, if you assume that you can push them the same speed, but the 300 wm can't. Once you get to a Rum or Norma, things equalize between the 28 and 300 calibers. At 1000 yards, those things matter to making a good shot. Now, I don't think 1000 yard shots are practical for lots of reasons, even though I can regularly put first round hits on full size IPSC targets. I shoot my rifle a lot, and I reload carefully. ES of 20 still puts a lot of variation in elevation at 1000, and my ES is half or often less than factory ammo. There are just so many factors that can affect the bullet, and that is precisely why they aren't highly practical hunting shots. Bottom line, for reasonable long range hunting shots, the 300 wm is a good performer. I'd draw the line at 800 generally in a 300 wm, but could be less depending on other factors.

Brakes make concussion to the shooter worse, and to some that is worse than recoil.

I have one at my gunsmith getting chambered in .223, might be a couple months, but I don't know whether I will keep it. It will have multiple barrels, including the factory .300 BO barrel. If you are interested and don't find one, I will probably list it. PM me and I will let you know when it comes in.

Leupold MK 5 3.6-18 is my choice for long range hunting rifles. The Nightforce SHV and NX8 are good choices as well.

It will shoot long range, but the ballistics aren't going to be great shooting a big fat bullet with low BC.

Modular Evolution, Atlas, Thunderbeast, Cykepod, and Harris for the standby. I don't use a bipod hunting any more, I run a tripod. Took my elk at 590 yards this year and my sitka at 575 last year. It is so hard to find a good place to lay down prone in Alaska, Arizona, and Colorado.

Bump

Two boxes. $140 Chandler or Mesa

See pics for ammo. Figure others might need this more than me. I really don't shoot any of these calibers any more. Price for full box is 10% off lowest price you can find on a legitimate non-sale website. Price of partial is half off whatever the per bullet price would be in a full box. If the box is closed, it is full. If it is open, then then you can count. I have several more boxes of the .45, just need to find them. Pick up in Mesa or Chandler.

All rifle is ammo sold.

Its acp

This is a good summary from my observation and research. I was on the Houserock July/August cow hunt this year and drew it with 9 points. It was dry this year, but other years it rained every day. For me, it wasn't about a bull, it was about the experience and the meat.

I certainly get the DIY perspective, and I was ready to do it DIY, and in fact scouted it with my buddy before opening. My buddy did it DIY for him and his father. He had other people do it DIY, with some information. I love to do as much as I can myself hunting, and even though I suck, I still go out by myself. Its just in my nature. So, I am not saying this as someone who is all about Russ. I was prepared to do it without Russ, and had a negative sort of feeling about the COOP. It just felt weird for a hunt. But, I understand why it works and why it is like no other hunt. For my hunt, the funny thing is, after a hard day of scouting for fresh sign, we ultimately came up with the exact same plan as Russ just gave to everyone. And, I shot my bison in the meadow because of Russ on multiple levels. Day before opening, my guide friend and I had scouted to a salt Russ had out and was less than 100 yards where @Flatlander was set up by Russ. We knew they had been there from the sign and smell and I was going to walk my blind into the location. On opening morning, I was just 5 minutes behind Russ and the coop when they were following the buffalo on foot. I caught up with them, and Russ didn't interfere with what I was going to do, but he did his best to make it a good hunt for everyone. All it takes is one hunter to drive around or walk around and force the buffalo onto the park. I've heard of other things guys try, but really, the options to hunt are really slim if you want to get an opportunity and also have some courtesy to the other hunters. Ultimately, I knew I would be sitting a blind most of the time because I didn't want to be the maverick running around. People that want to be a maverick won't like Russ's coop, and probably won't like sitting in the blind. Now, a really good hunter might be able to still hunt the park boundary, but I'd think twice for lots of reasons. Believe me, one day in the blind was rough enough. But, I would have stuck it out. The second morning, since I was hunting where everyone else was, I went to the Coop, got my radio from Russ, and planned to go sit the same salt. Yeah, it really sucks just sitting, but that is the best chance all hunters have. If you get yahoos running around, then the buffalo just stay on the park. It a terrible way to hunt waiting in the blind, but it is the best for everyone. Ultimately, as Flatlander and I were pulling up to park and walk into our blinds, Russ called and told all of us to head to the meadow. Rather than drive my truck solo into the herd, I asked Russ where he wanted me, and he said jump in with him. I rode up on the bison in his truck. I was asking about when to shoot, and he said, well, you have a suppressor so feel free to shoot whenever you want. I was standing near Russ on the side of the highway, and he was calling out cows trying to get people to shoot. Had it not been for Russ, I would not have shot my bison that morning. He didn't care who was out there on that meadow, and in fact as far as I know, everyone in the coop was told to go to the meadow. His boy would have helped gut and dress her if we wanted, but I had all the help I needed. Yeah, blind sitting sucked. But, my own scouting got me no different information than Russ's coop. And, I had the fortune of an experience Kaibab bison hunter to do the scouting. If you don't know anything and you choose DIY, there is a good chance that you'll be like the guys I saw driving around and seeing nothing because they hadn't participated in the coop. Imagine being those guys, and seeing a non-paying coop participant drive by with a bison head on top of coolers in my truck bed. They didn't get a chance on the hundreds of bison out in the meadow that morning because they were DIY. I don't know if they went to the coop later, because I was only up there for two nights and three days, but we told them about it. Take all that with a grain of salt, but I figured I should share my experience. IMO, if someone chooses DIY, if they don't have significant experience, intel, and understanding, they will be at a massive disadvantage. Talk with Russ and educate yourself before making a decision.