Steve123

I thought this was appropriate subject matter since this is the "long range forum" and a "holdovers vs dialing" thread??!! BTW Horus reticles were originally designed for long range donkey hunting in Australia (invasive species with a bounty on them) because the inventor was having trouble getting enough time to dial his scope before the animals disappeared into the landscape. No I don't work for or are affiliated in any way with Horus. We all have our skill sets and or ability levels - so of course I would expect anyone reading my post to understand where they are at personally in this regard. That's why I mentioned this - "Get a good reticle,""""""practice practice practice your holdovers""""""""", and a 500Y shot on a deer or antelope will be a chip shot. A reticle provides information, from that of a single aiming point like a simple crosshair, to the H59 in the image above. Yes that info needs to be learned and there are plenty of resources on the internet to do so. DIALING - People don't always dial correctly do they???, I've misdialed, and have seen people make this mistake on many occasions. Stress, in match shooting or in a hunting situation makes making this mistake even more likely. HOLDOVERS/HOLDOFFS - Here's some things I didn't mention that can be an advantage when using the reticle for holdovers/holdoffs. #1 It takes time to dial. You have to take your attention off the target/animal to dial your dope, resettle and find the T/A again. The T/A could have moved or the wind could have changed while you did all this. #2 If you were holding, you would have "THAT" extra time you used to dial ^^ to find the T/A in the FOV, build a more steady position, have more time to think about what the wind is doing, and get in a well executed shot quicker. It could mean the difference between filling your tag or not! #3 For me, I used those hash marks in the H59 to measure where I hit, or missed, from POA to POI, and compensated for the next shot if need be. BDC reticles - These don't always line up with the trajectory accurately with peoples rifles and loads, especially past 300Y. BDC's provide approximations. Like Lobo mentioned there are a number of considerations when taking a long range shot, one is having a good enough range finder to get an accurate distance reading on a less reflective target. Others are altitude, station pressure, temperature, slope angle, wind angle and speed, past these, one must somehow build a steady position within the circumstances of the shot. Also what level of precision is your rifle and load capable of, do you know your exact velocity and BC, do your turrets track correctly and is your reticle true??? Just things to think about. Some of the guys reading this might be interested to know that effective practice with everything I mentioned above can be done with a pellet gun or 22rf. A major reason why I was able to win that longe range series is because I practiced with PCP air rifles, NO I'm not BS-ing. My S&B 5-25 PM2 has a 10 meter close focusing feature on it and it's actually why I bought it in the first place! With this scope mounted on one of the PCP's I used to own, I shot my highest finish in Field Target air rifle, relative to my next closest competitor, I got a 58/60, which was 12 points above 2nd place. Doesn't sound like much but it is. Pellets blow like crazy in the wind so air rifles are fantastic for learning about wind! That same S&B is now mounted on my Anschutz 22rf, both of which have won me a bunch of matches. I do quite a bit of holding over in NRL22 type matches. On a stage in the last match I won, my good friend dialed for the long range stage which caused him to take too much time to get off good shots. I heldover and off and won the stage. He finished 2nd in the match. But to back up a bit. I dial as much as I holdover, it all depends on the situation I'm in and what I feel is most beneficial at the moment. My BIL is one of those once a year hunters. Within 5 minutes of teaching him holdovers in that H59 I had him hitting prairie dogs out to 450Y. Many of them head shots around 250Y-300Y. So it's not difficult to learn this stuff.

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Thanks. You should see the ones I'm keeping.

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Nice old rig in excellent shape.

Sorry I missed some of the posts above, Wildwoody and 5guys??? The guy saying the bike looked good requested photo's through text and which I sent him. I'll try to get some photos up later today. I'd take $2500. Heck I'd throw in some riding gear too. Chest protector, Knee guards, Helmet, boots.

Take it from somebody that has a ton of experience in the matter of holdovers vs dialing. Some of the opinions in this thread are novice advice at best. I'm fairly proficient with almost everything that has to do with long range. Here's what I accomplished to prove my point that holdovers can exceed dialing in certain scenarios. Bear with me, I'm going to describe a very hard long range steel match in this paragraph to show you how difficult it actually was. Near Ashfork AZ this match was called the AZPRC which was a 40 or more round match. It took place on top of a sandstone mine a couple hundred feet above the desert floor so all shots were down hill. Distances were from 300Y to 1450Y. You had 4 minutes to fire all 10 rounds on 5 steel targets of different sizes and shapes, from big to small, all at random distances and positions, depending on the COF's that were predetermined beforehand. Distance and slope angle were given for each steel target as well. As you might have guessed, each steel was to be engaged twice. Once the first target was fired at, whether hit or miss, you had to re-engage it a 2nd time within 10 seconds to count as a hit, if indeed you did hit it. First round hits were worth 10 points and 2nd round hits were worth 5 points. Speed and precision were paramount. You were forced to find the target which wasn't easy. Each target required repositioning the rifle, rear bag, and settling back in. Since the steel was all over the place within a 120 degree circle from the firing point, a new wind call was required as well. This place was windy too!!! Equipment - I used a Bushnell HDMR/H59 scope in 2011, and a S&B 5-25PM2/H59 for the last half of 2012 season. Both these scopes have a reticle that has .2 mil hash marks and both are FFP scopes, google image that reticle, it seems a busy one but.... Those scopes were on a custom rifle in a 6x47L wildcat cartridge that sent 115 DTAC bullets at 3000 fps. I used a TAB rear bag and a Harris BMRS bipod that swivels. Now comes the subject matter! Long story short I held over 98% of the time using my H59 reticles, I sometimes dialed for the 1080Y and 1450Y steel but all the rest I held over and off for 100%. How well did I do? I WON BOTH SEASONS 2011 and 2012, against AZ's top steel shooters. As well as having the record high score for the daytime matches. Yes there were night matches too, I won some of them but I dialed elevation because the whole reticle was not illuminated. Okay there are plenty of instances where dialing is more beneficial but there are circumstances that holding over and off using a "GOOD" reticle designed for such can be more beneficial. Furthermore a prestigious national or international sniper match (I can't remember which), was won by a military sniper whose new Nightforce F1 3.5-15x50 broke, causing him to have to holdover for the rest of the match. He used a H58 reticle to do this. BTW I use that same scope on my Anschutz 1827F 22 rimfire, often holding over, I'd say more than half the time, in NRL22 matches, winning the Southwest High Desert regional match in 2018. Get a good reticle, practice practice practice your holdovers, and a 500Y shot on a deer or antelope will be a chip shot. I've hit steel at 1900 yards holding over but I did hit a steel at 2500Y quite a few times by dialing 20 mils and using the reticle to holdover the rest of the way. This was with a big cartridge in 30 caliber, and a bigger one at 2500Y, a 375 Cheytac.

I had a 01 Raptor, I liked the Torque.

Sorry man this is a sport quad not a utility quad so no gun rack.

The plastic is kinda ratty because it's old so it's not a looker but it is very fast and stable because it's so wide. It handles waaaaay better than most stock quads.

Yep The scope and rings are $300 more if anyone wants them. Athlon Talos BTR 4-14x44 and DNZ rings.

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Fantastic old rifle!

still for sale

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I had a 30 cal set at 80fpe, honestly it's getting too powerful for a pellet gun. By that point I'd rather grab my Anschutz 22rf at 120fpe with standard velocity. Also 30's gulp air like crazy. As well the 25 cal 34's have the same BC as the 50gr 30 cal. Those are things to ponder...

thanks

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Just bumping this back up

Sorry for the late reply, I was out of town camping in a locale that didn't have phone reception. So much I forgot to mention about this gun??!! It's got less than 400 rounds through it and they were light loads. The rifle will come with Lee 223AI dies, these dies resize brass to this chamber perfectly too! I also have 35-ish loaded rounds of 75gr ELDM's that I will include. I've shot a couple 5 shot groups at 100Y with all touching, and last time I shot at 785Y the vertical on steel was 4". It shoots great, almost as well as my 6mmBR, which is part of the reason I'm selling this 223AI, the ballistics are redundant between these two cartridges, I just don't need 223AI anymore. I own the 20-221AI reamer and have a CZ527 that I use a lot so that's another reason I'm selling this rifle. No I don't have the springs for the trigger. Jewel would send them real cheap I bet, maybe free. I wouldn't have any use for the stock either so it needs to go as a whole rifle. Oh and the stock does have a Harris bipod stud on the bottom. I'll lower the price to $1050.

This has the side port cut for the ARC Nucleus action and has the barrel inlet done for a heavier barrel like MTU. Has the DBM cut for PTG system. It will however fit any M700 or clone. $1000 and no 6 month wait. shmonty03@aol.com

Still got it.