moche

Drew 23N Early Archery. God is Great

Trphyhntr has nothing to do with the total population of elk only the reduction in the 8-10 year old trophy category, once they are reduced to a minimum then the next age group will pay the price, to many tags given. if you increase the cow tags than you had better decrease the bull tags cause you only make bulls one way .Once depleted the wolves will shut the coffin door on the herd. just saying. I have seen NM do it in Unit 9, 10, 13 and 15 and it is happening in all the Gila Units, Trophy Quality has dropped drastically as have elk numbers. NM unit 9 was once full of trophy class elk. You would see herds with over 150 head on a regular basis. so what did game department do add a third Bull season and Three cow seasons. oh yea and give land owners over 300 tags. Now you can walk the public land in this unit for ten days and never see an elk. Sad, Sad situation. I figured AZ would do better than that but it looks like we are seeing the beginning of the same results NM now has if they do not change it quickly. It has become a big money game and the average working Joe is losing. The use of cameras for now gives the outfitter a chance to be a super hero and kill all these big bulls but I am noticing that the supply of trophy games animals is starting to shrink and the cycle is headed the other direction. Enjoy the dream now because without change it only becomes a camping trip. I am not bashing Outfitters as I have been a guide in the past just the types of tools that are being used buy them to kill those trophy bulls and other game animals.

Boy, people are hush, hush on this subject. not sure why. I tried to get a little help also with no luck. my wife and I went out on the early black powder hunt. the hunt was great there was still a lot of rut activity going on and the number of bulls we saw was amazing. we just could not find much over 300. we finally found one on the second to last day that was about a 370 and fighting everything in sight. She just could not close the deal and went home with an unfilled tag. Must say that it was the finest elk activity we have ever been a part of. I have 16 points for next year and am hoping that it is my turn to dance with the bulls!

ok, so don't throw stones at me for my comment but I think the trail cameras have been a detriment to the trophy bull population. those bulls that would go undetected and move at night are all caught on camera. every outfitter in AZ appear to have cameras set up on every watering hole in AZ along with the solo hunters that have time to do the same. those big bulls do not have a chance thus the population of big bulls has gotten hammered over the last ten years. same with the Deer up north. there appear to be fewer of those giant bucks killed than a few years back. just my opinion. my wife had an early black powder hunt in unit one last month and had dreams of taking a 350 plus bull. she passed on may small bulls and we saw small bulls everyday, lots of them. very few cows!. She came home without a bull as we only saw one bull in the 350 plus range and could not close the deal. It was a great hunt as hunts go but the quality we expected to see was not there. if there is a trophy bull in the woods the outfitters will have it on film and most likely kill it. cameras have changed the game to a point that I feel it is affecting the trophy quality and taking the edge away from the game. I feel that there are a lot of DYI hunters that are way more talented than most outfitters. They just have the advantage of spending more time in the wood with all the electronics the hunting world can provide them. Just my thoughts.

have not seen any new post from this group, are they still in business?

I have hunted parts of Unit 16 for many years. The Coues deer are situated on the western portion of what is 16A with scattered pockets in the western portions of 16D. the wilderness unit 16B also has some whitetails but they are tough to find and the country is rough. the mule deer are scattered throughout the unit but there are some nice bucks to be had. the Black powder season was much better before it was moved from late September to late October. Scout as much as possiable. give me a call at 800-374-9221 and maybe I can help get you started. Frank O.

From Springerville AZ transplanted from Los Lunas NM, have hunted 23 other then the burros. Seen some big bucks but not a lot of deer.